Catholic doctrine on Predestination

DeaconDean said:

Something given as a merit is a reward. It is not grace.

God Bless

Till all are one.

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Does Scripture teach that God will reward you for your good works?

DeaconDean said:

I have read nowhere that entrance to heaven is merit/works based.

God Bless

Till all are one.

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OK. But Does Scripture teach that God will reward you for your good works?

DeaconDean said:

Show me scripture that says entrance to heaven is given as a merit.

God Bless

Till all are one.

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For the sake of argument, let's assume that I cannot show you any such Scripture because it does not exist. I concede you this argument.

Now, does Scripture teach that God will reward you for your good works?

Yes or No?

DeaconDean said:

It does not matter what I believe.

I am questioning the validity of entrance to heaven being given as a "merit".

What I do believe, is that every Christian will appear before the " βήματος" "bema seat" of Christ. (cf. 2 Cor. 5:10)

Paul says the same thing in Rom. 14:10, "βήματι"

And that place is in heaven.

God Bless

Till all are one.

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Well. If you refuse to answer a simple question there is no room left for us to dialogue. God bless you too.

DeaconDean said:

This thread was not brought into being to question what I believe.

That is what you have questioned at least twice.

I believe along with Baptist beliefs, if you must know.

And one thing about Baptists is a belief in:

"The 66 Books comprising the Scriptures are given by the verbal inspiration of God, and as such are the only and all sufficient, authoritative rule of faith. Given their divine origins, the Scriptures are without error as originally given."

Link

So again, show me in scriptures where entrance to heaven is given as a merit.



God Bless

Till all are one.

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I think that would be a waste of time. Certainly you are already aware of any verses that I might raise, and already deny that they teach that. I have no desire to attempt to prove this to you for this reason.

I am more interested in your statement that "Something given as a merit is a reward. It is not grace." Both you and I know that this statement is false, and that you are refusing to answer my question because you cannot answer it without exposing your statement as false.

DeaconDean said:

I am forced to wonder, since I have been accused of "you don't know what you are talking about", I wonder if you could tell me what "to be predestinated" actually means?

Not the same old rhetoric about man being nothing but a robot.

God Bless

Till all are one.

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I did not call you or St. Paul a liar, but if that is how you want to roll that is fine by me. Have a good week.

PeaceB said:

Does Scripture teach that God will reward you for your good works?

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Yes - but it is not about salvation or lack thereof.

Dave-W said:

Yes - but it is not about salvation or lack thereof.

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Thank you. I am not arguing against that here. I was attempting to show the OP that reward and grace are not mutually exclusive.

DeaconDean said:

Link please.

God Bless

Till all are one.

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CHURCH FATHERS: On the Predestination of the Saints, Book I (Augustine)

DeaconDean said:

I am forced to wonder, since I have been accused of "you don't know what you are talking about", I wonder if you could tell me what "to be predestinated" actually means?

Not the same old rhetoric about man being nothing but a robot.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

I already posted, briefly, on the meaning of predestination, in post #32 on the previous page. Your use of the term "merit" is another straw man.

III. MERIT
You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.59
2006 The term "merit" refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God's gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us "co-heirs" with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God's gifts."62

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Grace and justification
This is the exact opposite of how you use the term "merit". Post #32 defines predestination in layman's terms, this post defines merit.