Catholic Bishops Declare.......

[g_1933]

that jews do not need to be evangelised because God has already made a covenant with them. In other words there is no need for a jew to be saved. Just wanted to get some input on this topic.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

If you are going to report something like this, which is very controversial, why don't you include a reference? What is the source, so that we can cross check it with other sources.

You might not be aware that the secular media doesn't exactly paint a fair picture of the Church, and that is saying it nicely.

 

[g_1933]

I will try to find one. I have not seen anything on the net as of yet.

 

[Ioustinos]

Boston Globe Online

Catholics reject evangelization of Jews


By Michael Paulson, Globe Staff, 8/13/2002

he Catholic Church, which spent hundreds of years trying forcibly to convert Jews to Christianity, has come to the conclusion that it is theologically unacceptable to target Jews for evangelization, according to a statement issued yesterday by organizations representing US Catholic bishops and rabbis from the country's two largest Jewish denominations.



Citing teachings dating back to the Second Vatican Council, and statements by Pope John Paul II throughout his papacy, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops declared unequivocally that the biblical covenant between Jews and God is valid and therefore Jews do not need to be saved through faith in Jesus.

''A deepening Catholic appreciation of the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, together with a recognition of a divinely-given mission to Jews to witness to God's faithful love, lead to the conclusion that campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church,'' declares the document, ''Reflections on Covenant and Mission.''

The declaration, which was negotiated by the bishops and an organization representing Conservative and Reform rabbis, demonstrates the dramatic changes in Catholic thinking about Jews and Judaism in the wake of the Holocaust. In the decades since Hitler's attempt to exterminate Jews during World War II, the church has rejected its longtime position that Christianity superseded Judaism and instead has embraced Judaism as a legitimate faith both before and after the life of Jesus.

''The significance is far more than theological, because for centuries it was the refusal of Jews to embrace Christian teachings that legitimized the persecution, and often murder, of Jews in communities throughout Christendom,'' said Robert Leikind, New England regional director of the Anti-Defamation League. ''What the bishops have done here is decisively separated themselves from that history and indicated once and for all that Jews have an authentic relationship with God and an authentic mission in the world, and therefore there is no reason for, or logic in, trying to evangelize Jews.''

Jesus and his early followers were Jewish, but those who embraced Christianity began to turn on those who did not more than a millennium ago. Violence by Christians against Jews began with the Crusades and anti-Semitism intensified during the Middle Ages and informed the Nazi effort during the Holocaust.

Catholic teaching began to shift dramatically in the early 1960s, when the Second Vatican Council declared that ''the Jews must not be presented as rejected by God.'' Since then, Catholics have abandoned efforts to convert Jews and have emphasized in religious teachings that Jesus was Jewish.

Catholic and Jewish officials said the statement was the sharpest definition to date of the evolving relationship between Catholics and Jews. Cardinal William Keeler, the archbishop of Baltimore and the bishops' liaison for Christian-Jewish relations, called yesterday's declaration ''a significant step forward in the dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Jewish community in this country.''

However, the declaration puts the Catholic Church at odds with evangelical Protestants, particularly the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the country. In a 1996 resolution, the Southern Baptists declared, ''whereas Jesus commanded that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem ... we direct our energies and resources toward the proclamation of the gospel to the Jewish people.''

At the time, the Southern Baptists decried ''an organized effort on the part of some either to deny that Jewish people need to come to their Messiah, Jesus, to be saved; or to claim, for whatever reason, that Christians have neither right nor obligation to proclaim the gospel to the Jewish people ... we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ.''

The Southern Baptists' stance has not changed since, according to spokesman John Revell. ''The drive behind not just the Southern Baptists but all evangelical Christians is the conviction that Jesus Christ is the only way to have eternal life with God the Father, and anybody who seeks eternal life through any other means will fail,'' Revell said. ''There is a misconception that Southern Baptists have targeted Jews. We haven't targeted Jews. Our focus is to get the good news of Jesus Christ to all people, including Jews.''

Eugene J. Fisher, the director of Catholic-Jewish Relations for the bishops' conference, said the document issued yesterday acknowledges the divide between Catholics and evangelical Protestants on the issue.

''This is a free country and that principle of freedom of faith means I can't complain about their freedom, but here there might be a theological difference as well as a pastoral difference in understanding the relation of Christ's church to the Jewish people,'' he said.

Fisher said Catholic efforts to convert Jews ''dried up'' after the Second Vatican Council. He cited as an example the Sisters of Zion, a religious order that once focused on trying to convert Jews, but after World War II decided on interfaith dialogue instead.

Yesterday's declaration ''caps a development in a certain theological direction, by pulling it all together,'' he said. ''In the US, the motivation of the American bishops to watch that development closely is very strong, because of the dialogue with the world's largest Jewish community, which is in the US.''

The rabbis and bishops have been meeting twice a year for two decades and have issued statements on such topics as the environment and hate crimes. They said they hope yesterday's declaration will influence Catholic-Jewish dialogues and help end ''the continuing ignorance and caricatures of one another that still prevail in many segments of the Catholic and Jewish communities.''

Michael Paulson can be reached at mpaulson@globe.com.

This story ran on page A1 of the Boston Globe on 8/13/2002.
© Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company.

 

[g_1933]

If God's covenant with the Jews remains valid- as the pope himself has repeatedly reaffirmed- then the inevitable conclusion is that they can achieve salvation even without accepting Jesus as the messiah. And, despite widespread Jewish assumptions to the contrary, that is precisely what post_Vatican II Catholic theology teaches (The Jerusalem Report, 1/11/96, p 35)

www.bible-infonet.org/ff/articles/denominations/111_12_09.htm

Sorry, don't know how to make a link!

Anyway this is not exactly what I had heard but it is close enough. I did not hear it from the secular media it was from BBN Radio this morning. Just wanted to hear what people thought and get some discussion. This is in no way meant to be a rant against the Catholic Church.

 

[Knight]

I think that this is something that the Catholic people need to settle with the Church. The scriptures are very clear as to the Jewish people's need for salvation.

Romans 10:1-4
1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Paul did not go to the gentiles (us) because the Israelites did not need Christ. He went for two reasons. 1) God sent him. 2) The Israelites rejected him and the gospel he presented.

 

[g_1933]

Knight, those are my thoughts on this as well.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Do you all think that the Church is saying that Jesus is not required for salvation for everyone?

 

[Knight]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Do you all think that the Church is saying that Jesus is not required for salvation for everyone?

Where did you get that from?

What was said is exactly what the article says. That the Catholic Church decreed that salvation in Christ is not required for the salvation of the Jews. This seems to apply to the jews alone.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I don't see that decreed by the Church. That article can say whatever it wants.

First, do you think it is possible that some Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, that are sincere and are following God as they think He wants, could possibly be saved?

Second, everyone will go through Jesus. Is it possible that some don't know it yet, but are great people, and will know it when they die?

 

[Knight]

Acts 4:10-12
10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health.
11 "He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

This pretty much says it all. Along with this:

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

So, to answer your question, no it is not possible for jews, muslims, buddhists, or hindus to be saved without knowing Christ.

 

[VOW]

According to what I have been taught by the Catholic Church, the Jews are God's Chosen People. And God, in His infinite knowledge and mercy, will be the one to make the decision on their status in Heaven.

From my personal viewpoint, God has OBVIOUSLY had His hand on the Jews for quite some time. They have been the most kicked-around, downtrodden, abused, tortured, and exterminated people of the world, I think, and yet they still persevere.

And Catholic people don't "tell" the Catholic Church to do anything. It's the other way around.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

"no one comes to the Father except through Me"

I agree, as I said.

You don't think it is possible that some people don't know that yet, but that they will eventually "go through" Christ when they die? Or do you interpret it meaning that only if you go through Christ in this lifetime?

The Bible also says that if someone doesnt' know the Gospel, not by any fault of their own, that they will be judged according to their conscious.

 

[LightBearer]

The Apostle Peter according to the Catholic Church was the first Pope, would he count as a great person. He, although being a Jew had to convert to Chritianity to be redeemed.

 

[g_1933]

First, do you think it is possible that some Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, that are sincere and are following God as they think He wants, could possibly be saved?

Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.

Second, everyone will go through Jesus. Is it possible that some don't know it yet, but are great people, and will know it when they die?

A decision to follow Jesus must be made while alive. Many people who the world thought were great will go to hell. God is no respecter of persons.

 

[VOW]

To Light Bearer:

I've never heard it put that way before, that Peter had to "convert" to Christianity.

He made his declaration to Jesus when he said "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." I guess you could say he "converted" then.



Peace,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Doesn't the Bible also tell you not to judge the salvation of anyone, and that only God can do that?

 

[Knight]

Not judging someone is not the same as assuming salvation.

 

[LightBearer]

But the Bible also gives clear steps and guidlines necessary for anyone to gain salvation without exception.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Knight
Not judging someone is not the same as assuming salvation.

Catholics believe that you cant even assume your OWN salvation, let alone anyone elses.