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Catholic Bishops Declare.......

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by g_1933, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

    88
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    that jews do not need to be evangelised because God has already made a covenant with them. In other words there is no need for a jew to be saved. Just wanted to get some input on this topic.
     
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  2. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    If you are going to report something like this, which is very controversial, why don't you include a reference? What is the source, so that we can cross check it with other sources.

    You might not be aware that the secular media doesn't exactly paint a fair picture of the Church, and that is saying it nicely.
     
  3. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

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    I will try to find one. I have not seen anything on the net as of yet.
     
  4. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +148
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Boston Globe Online

     
  5. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

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    If God's covenant with the Jews remains valid- as the pope himself has repeatedly reaffirmed- then the inevitable conclusion is that they can achieve salvation even without accepting Jesus as the messiah. And, despite widespread Jewish assumptions to the contrary, that is precisely what post_Vatican II Catholic theology teaches (The Jerusalem Report, 1/11/96, p 35)

    www.bible-infonet.org/ff/articles/denominations/111_12_09.htm

    Sorry, don't know how to make a link!

    Anyway this is not exactly what I had heard but it is close enough. I did not hear it from the secular media it was from BBN Radio this morning. Just wanted to hear what people thought and get some discussion. This is in no way meant to be a rant against the Catholic Church.
     
  6. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

    +111
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I think that this is something that the Catholic people need to settle with the Church. The scriptures are very clear as to the Jewish people's need for salvation.

    Romans 10:1-4
    1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

    Paul did not go to the gentiles (us) because the Israelites did not need Christ. He went for two reasons. 1) God sent him. 2) The Israelites rejected him and the gospel he presented.
     
  7. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

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    Knight, those are my thoughts on this as well.
     
  8. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Do you all think that the Church is saying that Jesus is not required for salvation for everyone?
     
  9. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

    +111
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Where did you get that from?

    What was said is exactly what the article says. That the Catholic Church decreed that salvation in Christ is not required for the salvation of the Jews. This seems to apply to the jews alone.
     
  10. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    I don't see that decreed by the Church. That article can say whatever it wants.

    First, do you think it is possible that some Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, that are sincere and are following God as they think He wants, could possibly be saved?

    Second, everyone will go through Jesus. Is it possible that some don't know it yet, but are great people, and will know it when they die?
     
  11. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

    +111
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Acts 4:10-12
    10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health.
    11 "He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.
    12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

    This pretty much says it all. Along with this:

    John 14:6
    6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

    So, to answer your question, no it is not possible for jews, muslims, buddhists, or hindus to be saved without knowing Christ.
     
  12. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    According to what I have been taught by the Catholic Church, the Jews are God's Chosen People. And God, in His infinite knowledge and mercy, will be the one to make the decision on their status in Heaven.

    From my personal viewpoint, God has OBVIOUSLY had His hand on the Jews for quite some time. They have been the most kicked-around, downtrodden, abused, tortured, and exterminated people of the world, I think, and yet they still persevere.

    And Catholic people don't "tell" the Catholic Church to do anything. It's the other way around.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  13. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    "no one comes to the Father except through Me"

    I agree, as I said.

    You don't think it is possible that some people don't know that yet, but that they will eventually "go through" Christ when they die? Or do you interpret it meaning that only if you go through Christ in this lifetime?

    The Bible also says that if someone doesnt' know the Gospel, not by any fault of their own, that they will be judged according to their conscious.
     
  14. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    The Apostle Peter according to the Catholic Church was the first Pope, would he count as a great person. He, although being a Jew had to convert to Chritianity to be redeemed.
     
  15. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

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    Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.

    A decision to follow Jesus must be made while alive. Many people who the world thought were great will go to hell. God is no respecter of persons.
     
  16. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Light Bearer:

    I've never heard it put that way before, that Peter had to "convert" to Christianity.

    He made his declaration to Jesus when he said "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God." I guess you could say he "converted" then.



    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  17. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Doesn't the Bible also tell you not to judge the salvation of anyone, and that only God can do that?
     
  18. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

    +111
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    Not judging someone is not the same as assuming salvation.
     
  19. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    But the Bible also gives clear steps and guidlines necessary for anyone to gain salvation without exception.
     
  20. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Catholics believe that you cant even assume your OWN salvation, let alone anyone elses.
     
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