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Catholic Bishops Declare.......

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by g_1933, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

    +578
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Some once said someing about "thinking alike", can't remember what it was, I wish I had a great mind.
     
  2. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Eldermike:

    THANK you for posting this! This is EXACTLY what I meant, when I said God doesn't break His promises!



    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  3. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    Eldermike, don't we all! :)

    God Bless,

    Neal
     
  4. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    "The decision is confusing to me, I would like to have a better understanding."

    Very wise statement!

    The Catholic faith is DEEP man, and on the surface, looks strange. But the more you learn, its like, "woah" :)

    Just think of all the strange things Jesus said!
     
  5. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    +1,711
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    I used to be so judgemental; I decided in my own mind who was going to hell and who was going to heaven all the time. It finally got so bad that I decided I was going to run for God.

    Upon my arrival, I explained the whole thing to angel who was on the desk that day. He carefully explained to me that the position was already filled, and the Incumbent was elected for eternity. In other words, I was out of luck.

    So then I asked about all those Bible verses that said if you don't believe in Christ, you're going to hell, and so on, what about all that? Wasn't it my job to tell those people if they didn't believe the same way I did, they were going to hell? He gave me a piece of paper with "Matthew 7:1-2" written on it. (I looked it up later---it scared the daylights out of me.)

    In the long run, I was glad that I didn't end up being God. Reading the literature the desk angel gave me on the elevator trip back down, I found out you have to have a pretty strong constitution to be God.

    For one thing, your constituents expect you to do everything; they won't lift a finger for themselves half the time, and whatever goes wrong, they blame it on you. On Sunday mornings, they come in to your house, real early, and sing off key and out of tune, real loudly. You can talk to them for centuries, but they never get anything you tell them exactly right, and then they whine about it because they're too thick to understand it. Further, if you think unions here are bad, wait 'till you've dealt with Local 666. :eek:

    I decided that even if I had gotten elected, I would have resigned immediately. ;)

    Oh, and that judging thing? All you can do is tell them (usually once), and after that it's up to them. What God decides to do with them is up to Him.
     
  6. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

    +111
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I'm going to make a statement on this issue.
    The issue here is that certain Bishops have declared that the Great Commission no longer applies to the Jewish people. This is wrong. The Bible clearly says that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation. There are multiple verses which state this, most of which have already been posted. Christ Himself ministered primarily to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul that the gospel was focused on gentiles.

    The Jews are God's chosen people. They were established by Him as a nation for Jesus Christ to be born into. When the Messiah came and preached to the Jews most of them rejected Him. This is shown in the Scriptures as well. Is God finished with Israel? Absolutely not. The Scriptures clearly tell us this as well. Do the Jews still need Christ for salvation? Yes, the Bible clearly says that all people need Him.

    If someone rejects Christ they are lost. Does this include the Jews? Yes, the Bible says that some will be cut off the vine while others will be grafted on. This is not a judgement it is the truth.

    This is the truth as presented in the Bible. I have nothing further to say on this subject.
     
  7. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    +1,711
    United States
    Catholic
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    And if you take the Bible as your final authority, then it's not surprising that you would reach that conclusion, Knight. Catholics, however, do not take the Bible as their final authority---for Catholics, the Church is the final authority. There can be a lot more facets to an issue than what is simply presented in Scripture.

    Besides, we're discussing this over news releases. Taken in context with every other relevant document the Church has produced about the Jewish people (such as Vatican II's Unitatis Redintegratio for example), it might present a very different conclusion.

    All of God's truth is not confined to the Bible. And as Forrest Gump once so wisely said, That's all I have t'say about.....that.
     
  8. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    Jeremiah 31:31-32
    “Look! There are days coming,” is the utterance of the LORD, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke,

    One of the purposes of the covenant was to make the Natural Jews a kingdom of priests to God.

    “And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel.” Exodus 19:4-6

    Jesus foretold that because the Natural nation of Israel rejected God’s son the chief cornerstone to whom the covenant led them, they themselves in turn would be rejected by God and replaced by another nation.

    ”Jesus said to them: “Did YOU never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From God this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? This is why I say to YOU, The kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and be given to a nation producing its fruits”. Matthew 21:42-43

    The Apostle Paul called this new nation or God’s new congregation “The Israel of God”

    ”For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation [is something]. And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God”. Galatians 6:15-16

    The Apostle Peter reaffirms that the new Christian congregation “The Israel of God” are God’s new spiritual nation. The new covenant prophesied in Jeremiah has been made with these and will do for this spiritual nation what the old covenant failed to do (Because they themselves broke it) for the Natural nation of Israel, that is, make them into a kingdom of priests to God.

    “It is to YOU, therefore, that he is precious, because YOU are believers; but to those not believing, “the identical stone that the builders rejected has become [the] head of [the] corner,” and “a stone of stumbling and a rock-mass of offense.” These are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word. To this very end they were also appointed. But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light. For YOU were once not a people, but are now God’s people; YOU were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy”. 1 Peter 2:7-10


    This new spiritual nation of Israel which has replaced the natural nation is the only nation that God will save. How, by bringing or grafting together both natural Jews and gentiles into one nation who have all now become spiritual Jews.


    “Now I speak to YOU who are people of the nations. Forasmuch as I am, in reality, an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry, if I may by any means incite [those who are] my own flesh to jealousy and save some from among them. For if the casting of them away means reconciliation for the world, what will the receiving of them mean but life from the dead? Further, if the [part taken as] firstfruits is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are also. However, if some of the branches were broken off but you, although being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the olive’s root of fatness, do not be exulting over the branches. If, though, you are exulting over them, it is not you that bear the root, but the root [bears] you. You will say, then: “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” All right! For [their] lack of faith they were broken off, but you are standing by faith. Quit having lofty ideas, but be in fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. See, therefore, God’s kindness and severity. Toward those who fell there is severity, but toward you there is God’s kindness, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise, you also will be lopped off. They also, if they do not remain in their lack of faith, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, how much rather will these who are natural be grafted into their own olive tree!  For I do not want YOU, brothers, to be ignorant of this sacred secret, in order for YOU not to be discreet in your own eyes: that a dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved. Romans 11:13-26

    This new nation of spiritual Jews or spiritual Israel consists of Natural Jews and Gentiles and are the one and only Israel of God. For these are the only Jews that God will recognise and are the true seed of Abraham not the natural Jews.

    “YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise”. Galatians 3:26-29

    That promise consists of their being God’s choosen people, God’s Kingdom, God’s priests, God’s blessing to the nations and the one and only Israel of God.
     
  9. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

    88
    +0
    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

    I realise you were talking to Knight but I just wanted to say that I think God's instruction is enough. God's inspired Word is all we need to walk with Him every day.

    Psalm 119:105 Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.
    Psalm 119:89 Forever oh Lord thy Word is settled in heaven.
     
  10. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To G_1933:

    Ah, yes, 1 Timothy. That is always used to refute "Sacred Tradition."

    Couple of problems with this, though.

    First, the verse says "All Scripture," not "ONLY Scripture."

    The Scripture that Catholics use to refute the Sola Scriptura claim of 1 Timothy is 2 Thessalonians 2:15
    Another problem with the verse in 1 Timothy is that AT THE TIME IT WAS WRITTEN, the only "Scripture" that existed was the Old Testament.


    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  11. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    And if "All Scripture" is all that is needed to be "fully competant" and "completely equiped", what need now of traditions. None.
     
  12. g_1933

    g_1933 New Member

    88
    +0
    I am sure that God was aware of this when He led it to be written.
    I believe that my Bible, without anything added to it, is the Bible God intended me to have and I trust that. I am just saying that I don't think any Christians that trust God need any other form of direction and I will leave it at that.
     
  13. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    But what happens when different ones interpret it drastically differently?
     
  14. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    This is not what the National Conference of Bishops have declared. What they have declared is "[t]he Catholic Church must always evangelize and will always witness to its faith in the presence of God's kingdom in Jesus Christ to Jews and to all other people..." What they have clarified is that, technically speaking, we are not converting Jews, but showing them the fulfillment of their Covenant and the establishment of a New Covenant. John the Baptist, Peter, Paul, and the Apostle John, didn't convert to Christianity, they followed God into yet another Covenant, just as their ancestors had done for generation upon generation.

    Please do not believe the hype that the Catholic Church no longer wants to evangelize Jews. It is all media hype. Someone is trying to sell papers by lying. To quote the document that raised all this fuss in the first place one more time, so that it is clear to all parties that the Catholic Church is remaining faithful to the Great Commission:

     
  15. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Neal-

    As usual, you are a beacon of truth in a sea of lies.
     
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