Catching the Bouquet--Divination?

[ChristianGolfer]

If some people believe in it, there is reason to do it. But why would Christians want to participate in divination activities they don't agree with.


Does a divination activity have to be connected to the worship of a specific false deity to be forbidden?

The point is that it's not really a divination activity. Because that's not what people are really doing. Since no one really believes that. I know you keep claiming someone might actually believe it. But no one really does. People know it's just a game.

This whole conversation reminds of the hype in the 80s over rock music being satanic because if you play the songs backwards it tells you to worship the devil or something.

 

[McHappyPants]

This is from another thread about the definition of 'single', but this would have been off topic in that thread.

My question is the practice of catching the bouquet or garter a form of divination. I've always heard the one who catches it will get married next or get married soon.

The Old Testament forbids divination. In history, divination could be cutting open an animal liver to read the filaments to predict the future, examining the flight paths of birds to predict the future, throwing down arrows to determine which way to go, etc.

Is this a form of divination, throwing bouquets to see who get's married next?

It does create a comical and sometimes frightening situation. I remember seeing a rather large girl in her 20's get her hand on a bouquet along with the fingers of some girl once. Maybe she really believed in catching the bouquet as a form of divination and was determined to secure her lot in the near future.

That is very interesting. I think it depends on the heart. It is fun though

 

[McHappyPants]

The point is that it's not really a divination activity. Because that's not what people are really doing. Since no one really believes that. I know you keep claiming someone might actually believe it. But no one really does. People know it's just a game.

This whole conversation reminds of the hype in the 80s over rock music being satanic because if you play the songs backwards it tells you to worship the devil or something.

 

[Luther073082]

Wagner probably drunk water and tea, but that doesn't mean we should forbid these activities. It is interesting that your church would not allow that piece. Were they quite limited in what type of music was allowed on the church organ?

In the minds of the people at church, that song has nothing to do with paganism. Do the lyrics say anything about paganism? If Jesus could say not to cast pearls before swine, and Paul could quote "In Him we live, move, and have our being" and the Old Testament can quote Balaam, then we shouldn't forbid repeating non-pagan utterances that happened to be spoken by Gentiles, pagans and diviners. I think the same principle applies to musical compositions.

But should we use his music in a church sanctioned activity? Music that was written for a pagan opera?

It's not a ritual related to paganism or divination in our culture. Throwing the bouquet is done with an understanding that the person catching it gets married next-- or that that is the tradition, whether or not the people present believe in it.

It's more an old wives tail then anything someone

Again, no connection to paganism. That's an interesting fact. It certainly does have something to do with virginity nowadays, or at least it did in the 1900's. I think most Americans would associate white dresses with virginity, even though some people would chuckle at the notion if they thought of it as some brides walked down the aisle.

But it's not a Christ centered tradition as you indicated anything not Christ centered shouldn't be involved.

Either way, the evil spirit thing is not a part of contemporary culture or thought.

And the bouquet toss isn't something people of contemporary culture believe either. In fact I rather doubt it was EVER believed, considering that the "next to get married" is a pretty easy factual occurrence to disprove the entire paradigm.

If anyone ever took that seriously a lot of people would fall into despair should a small child catch the bouquet.

Based on your classification one should never blow candles out on their birthday because the folklore is that people will have their wish come true.

One should never toss coins into a fountain for the same reason.

One should never take their child to see Santa Claus because then the child might believe that they can get anything they wish through the intervention of a mythical being.

What you are missing out on is the fact that there is a folklore surrounding a certain practice doesn't mean that anyone actually believes in it. Especially the person participating.

Tradition is reason enough to do these activities. It's not a sin to just go along with tradition just because it's fun.

 

[scrofford]

This is from another thread about the definition of 'single', but this would have been off topic in that thread.

My question is the practice of catching the bouquet or garter a form of divination. I've always heard the one who catches it will get married next or get married soon.

The Old Testament forbids divination. In history, divination could be cutting open an animal liver to read the filaments to predict the future, examining the flight paths of birds to predict the future, throwing down arrows to determine which way to go, etc.

Is this a form of divination, throwing bouquets to see who get's married next?

It does create a comical and sometimes frightening situation. I remember seeing a rather large girl in her 20's get her hand on a bouquet along with the fingers of some girl once. Maybe she really believed in catching the bouquet as a form of divination and was determined to secure her lot in the near future.

It's NOT Divination. It's tradition, and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Hetta]

LOL. That's right. Christians should absolutely ask people about to be married whether there is anything in their wedding that does not pass the muster test. Is she wearing something old/something new/something borrowed/something blue (now I have an ear bug)? Will she throw the bouquet? Will anyone wish them 'luck' and hope that all their blessings will be "little ones"? These are all traditional at weddings, but all apparently unholy. What sad lives some people live.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

This is from another thread about the definition of 'single', but this would have been off topic in that thread.

My question is the practice of catching the bouquet or garter a form of divination. I've always heard the one who catches it will get married next or get married soon.

The Old Testament forbids divination. In history, divination could be cutting open an animal liver to read the filaments to predict the future, examining the flight paths of birds to predict the future, throwing down arrows to determine which way to go, etc.

Is this a form of divination, throwing bouquets to see who get's married next?

It does create a comical and sometimes frightening situation. I remember seeing a rather large girl in her 20's get her hand on a bouquet along with the fingers of some girl once. Maybe she really believed in catching the bouquet as a form of divination and was determined to secure her lot in the near future.

Is this Autumnleaf hacking LinkH's account or did you really just ask this question

 

[Romanseight2005]

This is from another thread about the definition of 'single', but this would have been off topic in that thread.

My question is the practice of catching the bouquet or garter a form of divination. I've always heard the one who catches it will get married next or get married soon.

The Old Testament forbids divination. In history, divination could be cutting open an animal liver to read the filaments to predict the future, examining the flight paths of birds to predict the future, throwing down arrows to determine which way to go, etc.

Is this a form of divination, throwing bouquets to see who get's married next?

It does create a comical and sometimes frightening situation. I remember seeing a rather large girl in her 20's get her hand on a bouquet along with the fingers of some girl once. Maybe she really believed in catching the bouquet as a form of divination and was determined to secure her lot in the near future.

Assuming that people did it seriously, to tell who would get married next, which they don't, it would still be a form of casting lots, not divination. Throwing the bouquet, where the bride is turned around so she doesn't know who she's throwing it to, is casting a flower lot. The disciples did this to choose a replacement for Judas, I think. There are other examples of lot casting as well. Now, I don't know if God specifically condoned this, but we certainly don't see God condemning the casting of lots, either. Therefore, I don't think one has biblical grounds for calling the bouquet throwing, divination.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

BTW I just found out taking off the garter is a sin. Why? Because as you slide it down her leg it actually opens a portal to hell somewhere in the world and demons come out and take over donut shops and replace the donuts with tofu donuts! Its terrible I know! I am in no way mocking this situation at all!!!!

 

[LinkH]

Have you not read the scriptures where people would cast lots to find God's choice for someone? How is the throwing of the bouquet any different than casting lots?

Casting lots was to get direction to make a decision. Throwing the bouquet is (presumably) predicting the future or doing magic to make the person who catches it get married. I'm not sure the origin of the practice.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Casting lots was to get direction to make a decision. Throwing the bouquet is (presumably) predicting the future or doing magic to make the person who catches it get married. I'm not sure the origin of the practice.

I completely disagree. My understanding of the bouquet throwing game, is about finding out who would get married next (Not really believed) but I have never heard of anyone even fictionally thinking that the thrower,"made" anyone get married. It is fictionally thought to tell you who would do it next. I honestly don't see it as being any different than casting lots, except that people casting lots really believed in that direction, as opposed to the game of throwing the bouquet.

That said, now that I know that there my be people out there who think this is magic or something, I would probably not throw the bouquet, if I had it to do over again, so as not to make another stumble.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Luther brought up some interesting things, that are all really separate issues. I won't discuss it on this thread, because I don't want to go off topic, but they were interesting things, like blowing out the candle and making a wish.

 

[mjmcmillan]

I wonder if we don't get bent out of shape needlessly sometimes, calling something "sin" that the Bible doesn't necessarily say is sin.

You will not find the scripture that says that catching the bouquet is divination and is therefore sinful. Look from Genesis to Revelation, and you won't find it anywhere. So-- lighten up, and enjoy the day.

I belong to a denomination that says drinking alcohol is sinful. This is built on questionable theology at best, since the Bible doesn't actually condemn drinking outright. It has plenty to say about getting drunk, but-- Timothy was told to take wine with his meals, and while we're on the subject of weddings-- Jesus turned 6 large jars of water into wine for a wedding feast. Not just any old wine either, but the best wine. I won't drink while I belong to this denomination, not because I believe having a beer will forever condemn me-- I believe no such thing-- but because when I became a member, I signed on to their ways of doing things and for their sakes I won't be drinking.

Lighten up, and don't be in a rush to declare things "sin" that scripture doesn't say is sinful. We already have enough sin to get forgiven for, why make the burden heavier?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Yeah. Drinking and getting drunk are two different things. Ones a sin, the other isn't. I know some people blow out candles (as stated) on a cake and make a wish but technically thats not a sin, its umbilical though. Our pastor just had a sermon on people who have superstitions like believing luck, or putting a penny in the shoe. All these things take away from trusting in God since you somewhere in your head believe in luck..etc.

 

[tuliplane]

Now that we're living in the New Testament, it's all about the motives of the heart. If you don't see it as evil, but merely a fun thing to do, then that's all it is. Things can be what you make them to be. Now, this is not to say to practice in witchcraft or something "just for fun" because your heart is not set on doing anything bad with it. If it's something that won't cause you to stumble in your faith, that isn't even viewed by people as a Pagan thing anymore and your motives are pure, then it will most likely be okay. Think of having decorating your home for the holidays with greenery. We see it as tradition and enjoy doing it. It's pleasurable and makes memories, but at one time it was a Pagan practice. We don't see it as that though, we see it as decorative, fragrant, and "Christmasy". So always remember two things: 1. What are my motives? 2. Is it something that could be a stumbling block?

 

[BigDaddy4]

Why can't making a wish while blowing out a candle on a cake be a form of prayer? God knows the desires of our hearts. He wants to give us good things. So why not start the wish with "God, I wish...."

As I get older, sometimes the "wish" is to have enough air in my lungs to blow out all the candles..

 

[CounselorForChrist]

As I get older, sometimes the "wish" is to have enough air in my lungs to blow out all the candles..

You shouldn't blow out candles. Its evil. It can cause a portal to open to hell and cake demons come out and eat your gifts and then go away after stealing your remote and right footed socks!!!!!

 

[BigDaddy4]

You shouldn't blow out candles. Its evil. It can cause a portal to open to hell and cake demons come out and eat your gifts and then go away after stealing your remote and right footed socks!!!!!

Hmmm... I've always blamed the missing remote on the couch and the sock epidemic on the dryer. Perhaps they are all controlled by the same evil cake spirit that tells me I'm older than I feel...

 

[Observer]

I don't think many people actually believe it will help you get married. It's just a game. I didn't do it at my wedding because there were only like 2 single women there.

 

[mkgal1]

Why can't making a wish while blowing out a candle on a cake be a form of prayer? God knows the desires of our hearts. He wants to give us good things. So why not start the wish with "God, I wish...."

As I get older, sometimes the "wish" is to have enough air in my lungs to blow out all the candles..

Good point.