cat abortion

[jckstraw72]

my friend found a pregnant cat last night and the vet said, for whatever reason, that it would be best to abort the baby cat. is cat abortion a sin? my inclination is that it would be better to let the baby be born, but in the end, a cat is not the image of God and thus it wouldnt be a sin.

 

[Matrona]

Would you have it killed if it were already born?

 

[jckstraw72]

Would you have it killed if it were already born?

well we do that every time we eat an animal though. anyone know of any Patristic or other Orthodox commentary on anything like this?

 

[Orthosdoxa]

What the...???

Killing an animal does not have to be a sin. Doing it to be mean, without a good reason, would be. I assume there's a medical reason?

 

[jckstraw72]

I assume there's a medical reason?

yeah im assuming so. my friend didnt specifically say what it was though.

 

[MariaRegina]

For humans as well as animals, abortion does carry risks.

Surely, the vet will charge a nice sum and he will profit, but unless there is a medical emergency, I would let nature reign.

So, let the kitten be born and let the mother nurse it. Otherwise, with an abortion, since there is a higher risk of breast cancer associated in humans, the same fate might await the gravid female cat who will be unable to nurse her kitten.

 

[Michael G]

The reason killing a human is a sin is because humans have immortal souls. Animals do no thave immortal souls, thus it is not a sin to kill an animal unless it is done in a vile manner. So no, cat "abortion" is not a sin.

 

[MariaRegina]

While the killing of an animal by abortion may not be a sin, it certainly is an act that is against nature.

Even St. Seraphim of Sarov would spare the mosquitoes which landed on his bared back and not kill them.

I have learned to respect life as an Orthodox Christian, even that of a cat.

 

[Michael G]

While the killing of an animal by abortion may not be a sin, it certainly is an act that is against nature.

Even St. Seraphim of Sarov would spare the mosquitoes which landed on his bared back and not kill them.

I have learned to respect life as an Orthodox Christian, even that of a cat.

How is the killing of an animal an act against nature? If that were the case it would be against nature for man to kill animals to eat, and it was made clear in the NT that man could eat any animal. In the natural world animals kill each other every day, so I fail to see how the killing of an animal is an act against nature. All life is NOT equal. My life is infinitely more valuable than the life of an animal, plant, fungus, bacteria. Only mankind is made in the image and likeness of God and thus it is only a sin to kill mankind. Yes, the killing of an animal out of malice might be a sin, but the sin there is not the death of the animal per se, but the act of malice on the part of the person committing the act.

 

[Shubunkin]

The reason killing a human is a sin is because humans have immortal souls. Animals do no thave immortal souls, thus it is not a sin to kill an animal unless it is done in a vile manner. So no, cat "abortion" is not a sin.

Do not tell my cats that!

 

[Shubunkin]

I remember one cat we rescued we took to the vet to have her spayed. When we picked her up again, the assistant said they had aborted two kittens because she was pregnant. That made me sad, because they didn't even consult me about it. I could have found homes for them, or kept them, whatever. They should have asked before spaying her.

 

[Michael G]

Do not tell my cats that!

As much as I love my dogs, my life is infinitely more valuable than the life of any dog because my soul was made in the image and likeness of God and is immortal, and no animal soul is made that way. It pains me to cut through all the flowery and baroque imagery of dogs in heaven and to acknowledge that there are no animals in heaven, but that is the truth.

 

[Matrona]

I remember one cat we rescued we took to the vet to have her spayed. When we picked her up again, the assistant said they had aborted two kittens because she was pregnant. That made me sad, because they didn't even consult me about it. I could have found homes for them, or kept them, whatever. They should have asked before spaying her.

That's horrible! They shouldn't have done that.

What I hate is that rabbits and other so-called 'meat' animals don't get the same protection of the laws against animal cruelty that dogs and cats do (however minimal that may be). There was a case up north where this family would torture rabbits for entertainment. They videotaped themselves skinning them alive and laughing about it, and giving living rabbits to dogs to chase and eat. Inhuman monsters!

 

[MariaRegina]

In Orthodoxy, I learned something interesting.

My priest told me that he believes that there was a time when men did not kill animals.

So, sometime either just before the expulsion from Garden of Eden or before the Flood, humans were vegetarians. But that only after that event, humans became omnivorous.

So, in the original plan, apparently, God did not intend for humans to kill to eat meat. In Genesis, in the Garden of Eden, mention is made of the fruit of the earth, but not animals to eat.

Anyway, yes, we can slaughter animals to eat.

But cruelty to animals is a serious sin. In fact, there have been studies that connect childhood cruelty with animals with adult serial killers.
Porn is likewise associated with serial killers.

 

[Michael G]

In Orthodoxy, I learned something interesting.

My priest told me that he believes that there was a time when men did not kill animals.

So, sometime either just before the expulsion from Garden of Eden or before the Flood, humans were vegetarians. But that only after that event, humans became omnivorous.

So, in the original plan, apparently, God did not intend for humans to kill to eat meat. In Genesis, in the Garden of Eden, mention is made of the fruit of the earth, but not animals to eat.

Anyway, yes, we can slaughter animals to eat.

But cruelty to animals is a serious sin. In fact, there have been studies that connect childhood cruelty with animals with adult serial killers.
Porn is likewise associated with serial killers.

That is an OPINION. That is not taught anywhere as doctrine in the Church. Believe as you like, but it is not a sin to kill an animal, unless it is done out of malice. I would love to meet ANYONE who can tell me what Gods original plan for man was, pre-fall. What your priest has told you is pure speculation.

 

[zhilan]

I was also told by my priest that we didn't eat animals pre-fall. I think maybe that has something to do with why all monastics are vegetarians ... I don't know really though.

 

[rusmeister]

I don't know about doctrine, and wouldn't contend what I'm saying to be doctrine, but it does seem to be common sense that destroying any life designed by God gratuitously would be wrong. Now if there really is a sufficiently strong reason - that, of course, is different. Mosquitoes are way down the chain, and I would hold the irritation and distraction to me sufficent justification to kill any that threaten to do so. But cats and dogs...well, I'd want a stronger justification than mere irritation.

But wanton destruction of God's creation can't be right.

Michael, we can't know what we're going to find in heaven, I'll agree with you to that point. C.S. Lewis proferred some interesting ideas on that score. Have you read much Lewis?

 

[Matrona]

Mosquitoes are way down the chain, and I would hold the irritation and distraction to me sufficent justification to kill any that threaten to do so. But cats and dogs...well, I'd want a stronger justification than mere irritation.

They also spread diseases, like malaria and West Nile. But I feel like it would be wrong to enjoy killing them for the sake of killing or causing them pain or suffering. I believe all animals have souls, even flies and roaches and other nasty things. I try to give them freedom, or at least a quick death, so that they do not suffer.

 

[Michael G]

I don't know about doctrine, and wouldn't contend what I'm saying to be doctrine, but it does seem to be common sense that destroying any life designed by God gratuitously would be wrong. Now if there really is a sufficiently strong reason - that, of course, is different. Mosquitoes are way down the chain, and I would hold the irritation and distraction to me sufficent justification to kill any that threaten to do so. But cats and dogs...well, I'd want a stronger justification than mere irritation.

But wanton destruction of God's creation can't be right.

Michael, we can't know what we're going to find in heaven, I'll agree with you to that point. C.S. Lewis proferred some interesting ideas on that score. Have you read much Lewis?

I have read some Lewis, but not alot. However, Heaven is a purely spiritual state and thus to get in you need an immortal soul, and the Church teaches only human beings, the bodiless powers (both light and dark) and God are immortal.

 

[MariaRegina]

After the Final Resurrection, we will have glorified bodies.

And what God creates is good, so our bodies are good.