Can't CERN open Star Gate to hell?

[usexpat97]

I'm aware. I assume you believe that's a good thing?

Think of it like the atom bomb. Is that a good thing? No--it is terrible. But if the U.S. doesn't get it first, then the Nazis or the Soviets will. VERY different world if they did. The evil NSA is in that same situation now. Yes, big brother is terrible. But the Russians are doing it, and the only way we know how to combat it is to fight fire with fire. We can't just make them un-spy on Americans.

 

[friend of]

Oh, be serious. It's a particle physics lab. They do particle physics, just like all of the other particle physics labs that I've worked at or with

I see. And you don't think this comment of yours is an oversimplification? Care to share some examples?

 

[usexpat97]

The physics community is global. An important career milestone is to publish stuff. With a few top-secret physicists scattered here and there, such as the Manhattan Project.

 

[sfs]

I see. And you don't think this comment of yours is an oversimplification?

An oversimplification of what? No, I don't think it's an oversimplification to say that CERN is a physics lab and does physics. It's not an oversimplification to say that talk of CERN opening a portal to hell is ludicrous.

Care to share some examples?

Examples of particle labs I worked at? Brookhaven National Lab, the CESR facility at Cornell, the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. Labs I worked with: LBL and Livermore (now there is a lab that does do secret things. I also worked with a lot of people from Fermilab (and turned down a job there). Physicists moved back and forth between the labs all the time. (These days it's pretty much just CERN, though, since they're almost the only game in town.)

 

[Romans 8]

The physics community is global. An important career milestone is to publish stuff. With a few top-secret physicists scattered here and there, such as the Manhattan Project.

It's great to have someone in the thread that can answer some questions about physics. How does the particle accelerator contribute to computer science? Is it the type of particle that's used in the accelerator that's important? Is this your area of expertise?

 

[friend of]

Examples of particle labs I worked at? Brookhaven National Lab, the CESR facility at Cornell, the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. Labs I worked with: LBL and Livermore (now there is a lab that does do secret things. I also worked with a lot of people from Fermilab (and turned down a job there). Physicists moved back and forth between the labs all the time. (These days it's pretty much just CERN, though, since they're almost the only game in town.

Okay buy what exactly did you guys...do? Genuinely curious. I dont know what experiments particle physicists actually run or what purpose they're run for.

 

[Romans 8]

An oversimplification of what? No, I don't think it's an oversimplification to say that CERN is a physics lab and does physics. It's not an oversimplification to say that talk of CERN opening a portal to hell is ludicrous.

Examples of particle labs I worked at? Brookhaven National Lab, the CESR facility at Cornell, the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. Labs I worked with: LBL and Livermore (now there is a lab that does do secret things. I also worked with a lot of people from Fermilab (and turned down a job there). Physicists moved back and forth between the labs all the time. (These days it's pretty much just CERN, though, since they're almost the only game in town.)

This is really great. We have not one but TWO physicists in this thread who have worked at CERN and other locations and both confirm that CERN is NOT a portal to UR-ANUS.

Can you help answer my last post about how computer technology is developed at these places?

 

[sfs]

Okay buy what exactly did you guys...do?

We designed and built a detecter to be placed in an accelerator. At CERN, that means building a bunch of apparatus around the point where two beams of accelerated particles collided. The detector is composed of multiple subdetectors with different capabilities, e.g. tracking charged particles as the emerge from the collision and seeing how they bend in a strong magnetic field, detecting photons, measuring the energy of particles. Design might require all kinds of knowledge, including chemistry, high energy physics, material science, fast electronics; detectors often push the boundaries of available technology.

We also wrote software to comb through the enormous number of signals pouring out of the detector, identify the ones most likely to represent interesting physics, and reconstruct what had happened -- which particles (pions, muons, electrons...) had emerged, and with what energies. That was what I mostly worked on: charged particle reconstruction software. (Twenty years ago I was the "tracking coordinator" for the BaBar experiment at SLAC, now long since finished.)

Then we would run the detector while the accelerator operated, collecting data. Offline, we would then analyze the output, looking for specific signals of something expected but not yet see, measuring parameters of known decays, and looking for anything unexpected.

 

[sfs]

Can you help answer my last post about how computer technology is developed at these places?

Mostly by being early users with massive data processing needs, pushing capabilities in processing, data sharing and storage. The experimental collaborations are also large and spread throughout the world, so they were pioneers in online collaboration and data communication. As I said, the Web was invented at CERN as a tool to help physicists collaborate on experiments.

 

[usexpat97]

The superconducting coils used to accelerate the hydrogen ions to near-light-speed forced us to discover the physics of how superconductivity works. It forced us to research refrigeration technology to make superconductivity possible. We then use that to create new superconducting computers. Since electrical resistance is zero, power consumption is theoretically zero, and new memories come out which take advantage of the current never decaying.

 

[friend of]

and new memories come out which take advantage of the current never decaying

When you say "memories" what do you mean exactly? Can you rephrase in a lay way?

 

[Romans 8]

Mostly by being early users with massive data processing needs, pushing capabilities in processing, data sharing and storage. The experimental collaborations are also large and spread throughout the world, so they were pioneers in online collaboration and data communication. As I said, the Web was invented at CERN as a tool to help physicists collaborate on experiments.

I misunderstood your post initially thinking you made a joke about CERN bringing us to this thread. It's much old that I realized, but they rebuilt it. I saw docs on the construction, it's impressive in many ways. I hear they're building another one in China that dwarfs CERN. It's a lot of money and expense, and many people haven't a clue what they're for which is why we get threads like these.

 

[sfs]

Note: the entire process of doing particle physics takes a looong time. Something like five years to design an experiment, five years to build it, five years to collect data before you have any results (probably longer these days). And then you're competing with several thousand other physicists from the same collaboration for the handful of exciting analysis projects. There are reasons I quit to do other things.

 

[sfs]

I misunderstood your post initially thinking you made a joke about CERN bringing us to this thread.

Sometimes I am enigmatic and terse.

 

[Romans 8]

The superconducting coils used to accelerate the hydrogen ions to near-light-speed forced us to discover the physics of how superconductivity works. It forced us to research refrigeration technology to make superconductivity possible. We then use that to create new superconducting computers. Since electrical resistance is zero, power consumption is theoretically zero, and new memories come out which take advantage of the current never decaying.

I was going to ask a question about the lower part of your paragraph but then I realized I have no idea what you said :o

 

[friend of]

I hear they're building another one in China that dwarfs CERN. It's a lot of money and expense, and many people haven't a clue what they're for which is why we get threads like these.

I mean yeah. You have the intellectual elite of the world all flocking to these CERN contraptions to do all kinds of experiments. Then you have people saying (they're just doing rudimentary physics stuff; dont worry about it)

Then why do they need to keep building these things bigger? What's billions of $ in funding going toward and what data are they recovering? It seems like a global Manhattan project.

 

[sfs]

Then why do they need to keep building these things bigger?

Because they already learned all they could at lower energies, and to get to higher energies requires a bigger machine, at least until someone comes up with a practicable new approach.

What's billions of $ in funding going toward and what data are they recovering?

It's going toward building the immense accelerator, and the immense detectors, and all of the research and salaries that go along with it. The data are the results of particle collisions, which can tell you at the most fundamental level how the universe works. It has no foreseeable practical application.

It seems like a global Manhattan project.

Nah, physicists already did that and gave humanity the ability to destroy the planet. No point in repeating ourselves.

Should society spend those billions learning about fundamental physics? That's a question for society to answer. Personally, I decided to do something with at least some potential useful applications.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This nonsense reminds me of Event Horizon or Babylon 5: Thirdspace. Neither of which were very good.

Actually I liked Event Horizon. Never got into Babylon 5, I was baptized in the fires of TNG and a Trekkie I remain. Well, that's not true either, I haven't bothered with Star Trek Discovery; I am a huge fan of The Orville however which is arguably better Star Trek than Star Trek right now.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[USincognito]

Actually I liked Event Horizon. Never got into Babylon 5, I was baptized in the fires of TNG and a Trekkie I remain. Well, that's not true either, I haven't bothered with Star Trek Discovery; I am a huge fan of The Orville however which is arguably better Star Trek than Star Trek right now.

I've actually watched Event Horizon twice. It's cheesy, but has some great actors in the cast and terrific special effects. I give cheesy movie one of two classifications - cheese and fromage. It was definitely fromage.

 

[friend of]

It has no foreseeable practical application.

So you're admitting the whole undertaking is pointless. It's nothing more than an intellectual curiosity that yields nothing worthwhile outside the purely theoretical?