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Canonization of Scriptures

Do You Trust The Catholic Papacy In The Canonization Of Scriptures?

  • Yes

  • No


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calluna

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RC teaching is a seemingly systematic, albeit crude, inversion of Biblical teaching, as any student of the Bible and Roman dogma readily discovers, and as any student of European history must suspect anyway. It may be wondered, then, how it came about that Rome managed to recognise the New Testament accurately. The answer must be that, if it was to be acknowledged as the true church, it had to recognise the same canon that Christians had long recognized, from the time that the 27th book was completed and in circulation, and 26 books had had that status probably by the year 75, if not before. Despite the existence of books by authors ('Clement', Ignatius, etc.) that Rome relies upon for its teaching, it was forced into limiting itself to those generally recognized as of apostolic authority, and omitting those sources that it would have dearly loved to have had given the same authority.

The question that ought to be asked, and it is one of the wonders of human civilization that it has not been publicly asked until recently, is how it took so very long for Rome to recognise what every born again person recognizes within seconds, if not minutes- as indeed does everyone who opposes the Holy Spirit.
 
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squint

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Few people relate to this fact of scripture, but scripture was around even long before Moses, as noted by Paul:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Now, did Abraham READ that or did God SPEAK it to him?

Abraham READ the scriptures on this matter...about himself.

You also are WRITTEN of in the scriptures...every one of you who claim faith in Christ:

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

There are many people/voices who claim to be 'believers' but this is NOT SO. There are very few people who can say that JESUS IS LORD OF ALL....

MANY here on these forums for example claim that men are LORD of themselves...(freewill) or that Jesus is not LORD of those predestined to hell (predestination.)

These voices are NOT the voices of people speaking by the Holy Spirit. They are the voices of the DECEIVERS of people who are in/with the people as spoken of by the Words of God:

Hosea 4:12
My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

Hosea 5:4
They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the LORD.


No matter what you speak to a freewiller they cannot speak by the Holy Spirit that Jesus LORD OF ALL. Jesus is FORCED to act as THEY say...and not as HIS OWN LORD...

No matter what you speak to a predestiner they cannot make Jesus LORD OF ALL. Jesus must be FORCED to do as THEY say.

You who claim some form of superiority claims to scripture are under the SAME deception. You made YOUR GROUP Lord of the Word. You are also deceived.

The Word Works HIS OWN WILL and WORD no matter what any 'man' is led to speak...and whether that WORD is in writing or NOT.

Jesus SPOKE HIS LIVING WORD into this environment and THAT WORD whether recorded or not remains as effective today as the DAY in which it was SPOKEN.

The Word He Spoke MADE US CLEAN....all of us. Pure as the whitest snow...clean as pure water. If not a single written Word survived this world, the WORD of GOD remains fully IN SPIRITUAL EFFECT.

1 Peter 4:
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Isaiah 40:5
And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

enjoy!

squint
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Good point. Enoch is listed as a "hero of the faith" in Hebrews and then his scripture was actually quoted in the book of Jude. So Jude can quote Enoch and it is the 'Word of God'...but the book that the quote came from doesn't belong in the 'Word of God'?
The Bible (as we know it) was put together by biased men...not God. Fact.

Free Hugs,
CC
But we do know that the Bible we have now is inspired but whether it is TRANSLATED/INTERPRETED accurately, that is another question.....

I have been on boards where Christians can't even agree if Revelation and the Olivet Discourse is the same event! I myself believe it is or my Faith is in vain ehehe........:wave:

Matt 24:6 Ye shall be being about yet to be hearing battles and hearings of battles. Be ye seeing! no be being alarmed, for is binding/dei <1163> (5904) to be becoming/genesqai <1096> (5635), but not as yet is the End.

Revelation 22:6 And said to me "these the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the God of the spirits of the holy Prophets, commissions the Messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him which-things is binding/dei <1163> (5904) to be becoming/genesqai <1096> (5635) In Swiftness. [Revelation 1:1]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015&page=2
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?
 
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GuardianShua

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I was unable to find the text (online) for the proclamation you ascribe to Constantine (re: Saturday and Sunday).

What is the title and date of the Edict or Proclamation ?

Furthermore, the entire question is flawed, as your view of the 'Papacy' and its role in the early church is flawed. The entire church 'canonized' scripture. (The Roman church severely overstates the role it played in the early church, and you seem to have bought it...)
I'm having trouble finding that document were Constantine changed the sabbath.

"It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church." Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

"Sunday is our mark of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

"Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. 'The day of the Lord' was chosen, not from any direction noted in the scriptures, but from the Catholic church's sense of its own power...People who think that the scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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"Sunday is our mark of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
What does that have to do with the topic of this thread? :confused:
There is a thread on the "sabbath" here:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7329568
shadow sabbath
 
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Trento

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The day of rest is Saturday, but as for worship, you can worship any day, and every day. During the rule of Constantine the Great, he made a law that states that Christians are to work on Saturdays, but rest on Sundays. According to scripture and the law no work was to be done on that particular Sunday. So Mary did not attend the grave of Yahshua on that Sunday. That is what scripture says.


Way Before Constantine The early Christian Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D. did not consider the Sabbath day to be a day all Christians were obligated to observe. They gave a different testimony.

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians 8-10 (c. 110 A.D.)
"Do not be deceived by strange doctrines or antiquated myths, since they are worthless. For if we continue to live accordance with Judaism, we admit that we have not received grace. For the most godly prophets lived in accordance with Christ Jesus. This is why they were persecuted, being inspired as they were by His grace in order that those who are disobedient might be fully convinced that there is one God who revealed Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word which came forth from silence, who in every respect pleased Him who sent Him. If, then, those who had lived in antiquated practices came to newness of hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath but living in accordance with the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and His death (which some deny), the mystery through which we came to believe, and because of which we patiently endure, in order that we might be found to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher, how can we possibly live without Him, whom even the prophets, who were His disciples in the Spirit, were expecting as their teacher? Because of this He for whom they rightly waited raised them from the dead when He came. Therefore let us not be unaware of His goodness. For if He were to imitate the way we act, we are lost. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live in accordance with Christianity. For whoever is called by any other name than this one does not belong to God. Throw out, therefore, the bad leaven, which has become stale and sour, and reach for the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted with Him, so that none of you become rotten, for by your odor you will be examined. It is utterly absurd to profess Jesus Christ and to practice Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, in which "every tongue" believed and "was brought together" to God." (10)

Epistle of Barnabas 2:4-6 (c. 130 A.D.)
"For He has made it clear to us through all the prophets that He needs neither sacrifices nor whole burnt offerings nor general offerings, saying on one occasion: 'What is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?' says the Lord. 'I am full of whole burnt offerings, and I do not want the fat of lambs and blood of bulls and goats, not even if you come to appear before Me. For who demanded these things from your hands? Do not continue to trample My court. If you bring fine flour, it is in vain; incense is detestable to Me; your new moons and sabbaths I cannot stand.' Therefore He has abolished these things, in order that the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is free from the yoke of compulsion, might have its offering, one not made by man.

Epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 (c. 130 A.D.)
"Finally, He says to them: 'I cannot bear your new moons and sabbaths.' You see what He means: it is not the present sabbaths that are acceptable to Me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath, after I have set everything at rest, I will create the beginning of an eighth day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven." (11)

The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus (c. 260-339 A.D.) is probably one of the most important works on early Church history available, covering the events of its first three centuries. As one born during the early Church period, Eusebius was an able historian who had a close view of the events that helped shape the historical and theological developments of the early Church.

Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 1, Chapter 5 (c. 315 A.D.)
"For as the name Christians is intended to indicate this very idea, that a man, by the knowledge and doctrine of Christ, is distinguished by modesty and justice, by patience and a virtuous fortitude, and by a profession of piety towards the one and only true and supreme God; all this no less studiously cultivated by them than by us. They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath, neither do we; neither do we abstain from certain foods, nor regard other injunctions, which Moses subsequently delivered to be observed in types and symbols, because such things as these do not belong to Christians." (13)

Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 A.D.) lived during the reign of Antonius Pius and suffered martyrdom in 165 A.D. during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. He was an enthusiastic evangelist of the Gospel, and after traveling widely throughout the Roman Empire settled in Rome as a Christian teacher. While there, neighboring philosophers plotted against him because of his Christian profession, brought him up before the Roman authorities, who carried out his execution by beheading him.

The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 67
"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things ... But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead." (17)

Some Christians would say that these epistles and statements are unreliable and reflect a general apostasy that was going on in the Church at the time. But this is the Church of which Christ said "the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." Also, the men who wrote letters such as these to the early Christians were the type of people of whom were spoken in Hebrews 11.

Hebrews 11:35-40.

Many early Church leaders and followers of Christ such as Ignatius, Polycarp and Justin Martyr, to name a few, suffered severe persecution and eventual martyrdom at the hands of the Romans for spreading the Gospel of Christ. But to keep to the main point, Sabbath-keeping was not a requirement in those days for all Christians, nor was it generally observed. And this was going on long before Constantine the Great enacted his civil Sunday law.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The early Christian Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D. did not consider the Sabbath day to be a day all Christians were obligated to observe. They gave a different testimony.
LLOJ unsubscribes.........:wave:
 
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GuardianShua

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Here is the first Sunday Law decree. It was given about 16 years after Constantine's first Sunday Law of A.D. 321: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [in the original: "sabbato"--shall not be idle on the Sabbath], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out ['anathema,'--excommunicated] from Christ."--Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, Canon 29, quoted in C.J. Hefele, "A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Here is the first Sunday Law decree. It was given about 16 years after Constantine's first Sunday Law of A.D. 321: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [in the original: "sabbato"--shall not be idle on the Sabbath], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out ['anathema,'--excommunicated] from Christ."--Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, Canon 29, quoted in C.J. Hefele, "A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.
You mean like the Gospel of the Law vs the Gospel of the Grace

LLOJ ducks in and back out again!

Gala 1:8 But also if-ever we or a messenger out of heaven should be well-messaging to ye beside which we well-messagizing to ye, anathema/anaqema <331> let him be.
9 As we have declared before and at present again I am saying if any is well-messagizing beside which ye beside got, anathema let him be.

Reve 22:3 and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God/YHWH and of the Lamb-kin/Word in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.
 
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Thekla

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Here is the first Sunday Law decree. It was given about 16 years after Constantine's first Sunday Law of A.D. 321: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [in the original: "sabbato"--shall not be idle on the Sabbath], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out ['anathema,'--excommunicated] from Christ."--Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, Canon 29, quoted in C.J. Hefele, "A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.

This Council is not one of the Ecumenical Councils (7 are called Ecumenical by the EO).

Non-ecumenical Councils may either have been rejected, or were local (responding to a local or regional but not general problem). Canons iterated therein are not always applied, but are (at least for a time) in response to a local problem that threatens to divide the Church.

The emperor (here named as Constantine) may call a Council but does not decide a council.

As this Council is neither the work of the emperor named, nor is it ecumenical, I am unsure how the conclusion is made that has been suggested ...
 
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namericanboy

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Right on! If one accepts the biblical canon then one must by default be giving appropriate credit to the same Church which developed the biblical canon we know is in fact Divine revelation. That was the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church.

Amen....Catholic as universal but not Roman Catholic ;)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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SummaScriptura

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Michael "Thee" Archangel does not realize how very Roman Catholic he is in his thinking. To begin with, he, like many (not all) died-in-wool Roman Catholics accept by faith that the Roman Catholic Church existed during the time of Constantine the Great; it did not, so that is an item of faith Michael "Thee" Archangel shares with many (not all) Roman Catholics. I'd not be surprised if Michael "Thee" Archangel also believes the Roman Catholic Church existed further back than that.

Michael "Thee" Archangel also believes in a very powerful, Roman Catholic, worldwide, monolithic organization that was the leader of Christendom from those times; that also is an item of faith, since it is not borne out by history.

So, Michael "Thee" Archangel is very Roman Catholic in his perspective on history, I'm afraid.

By the way, I do not believe the Arians are/were wrong because the Church declared them wrong. Actually, the Arians are/were wrong because they are/were wrong. The Church merely recognizes/recognized that fact.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Fortunately, the RCC and it's "Pope" had nothing to do with it.


The New Testament Canon


First Century:


1. The "heart of the Canon" is often regarded to be Paul's epistles. By the time 2 Peter was written (perhaps 70 AD), they seem to be regarding as normative and referred to as Scriptures (2 Peter 3:15-16). Many theologians - conservative and liberal - give great importance to Paul's works as perhaps the theological framework for that which was later added. So, by 70 AD, we have perhaps half of the NT books in some aspect of a Canon. A bit later, Clement and others also speak of "Paul's letters" in this way, indicating a canonical status.


2. The Synoptic Gospels (written between 45 - 65) also seem to have been quickly and nearly universally seen as canonical. They were "published" together - as a single tome - as early as 115 and were very common. They too are repeatedly spoken of as canonical.

By this point, we have a fairly solid canon of 18 of our 27 NT books. And the RCC had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it. In fact, there's zero evidence that it even existed at this time.

Second Century:


Many early writers not only reveal a knowledge of NT books, but refer to them specially - as Scripture. Clement points to Romans, 1 Corinthians, Ephesians and maybe Titus. The Shepherd of Hermas (140) quotes from Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Hebrews, 1 & 2 Peter, Revelation and James. Ignatius (d.117) speaks of "all of Paul's epistles" authoritatively, he frequently uses normative quotes from Matthew, John and Acts as well. Tatian (c 170) writes that all Christians recognize that there are four Gospel books. Irenaeus also mentions that Christians accept only four Gospel books, he too speaks of "all Paul's epistles" and quotes from 1 Peter and 1 John. He speaks of these as a parallel of the Old Testament - having equal authority (ie being normative and canonical). Tertullian (d. 220) quotes authoritatively and normatively from all 4 Gospels, all the Pauline epistles, Acts, 1 Peter, 1 John, Jude and Revelation. All these reveal that much of the NT canon was in place by the end of the Second Century.

At this point, we have 20 of the books in place. And the Catholic Church had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it; in fact, there's no evidence it even existed.


Third Century:


At the beginning, we seem to have a rather solid Canon of 20 of the 27 books. They are the Pauline letters (13), the 4 Gospels, Acts, 1 Peter and 1 John. The great majority of the Canon is in place. But a few books - including those eventually being dismissed - were still not embraces with a solid consensus.

Cprian of Carthage (d. 258) says that all Christians accept 21 books: Paul's 13 (in all these lists, nearly always mentioned first), the 4 Gospels, Acts, First Peter, First John and revelation. They are referenced as normative and canonical.

Origin (d. 255) also reports on the status of the books as regarded by Christians. He places them into two groups: Homologoumena (all embrace) as 21 books - the same as Cyprian's list. Antilegomena (challenged) as 10 - they are Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, James, Jude (all which would eventually be accepted) and also Barnabas, Hermas, Didache and the Gospel of the Hebrews (all of which would soon be rejected).

The NT Canon is now solid for 21 of the 27 books. And the Catholic Church had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it. Nothing at all.


Fourth Century:


By this time, there is clearly an embrace of 21 books - and has been for a long time. the only "debate" centers around 5- 6 that eventually were embraced, and a handfull soon to be dropped. The core of 21 is now very solid and unquestioned.

Eusebius (d. 340) wrote that Christians all accept 21 books. He lists 4 as ones accepted by most but not by all: James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John (all eventually embraced). And he lists some as "spurious" - Acts of Paul, Shepherd of Hermas, Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache. Most historians fully agree on this situation, although one of that solid 21 (Revelation) some historians think was more debated than Eusebius seems to indicate.

Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 350) does the same for us, listing the books that all Christians embrace as Holy Scripture. His list is the final Canon, except that Revelation was left out, giving us 26 (Matthew - Jude)

There now seems to be little debate at all, a consensus seem pretty solid - God's people settling on a pretty solid list. Although some historians believe that Revelation was still more disputed in the East.

Athanasius of Alexandria (d. 373) Once again, we have someone telling us what we want to know: What books were Christians embracing as Holy Scripture - the NT Canon? He lists them: It's our 27. He does mention the Didache and Hermas as "associated with" but clearly as inferior and below the 27.

Christians clearly had a canon of 27. And the RCC had NOTHING to do with.



Early Meetings:


Early meetings were usually not focused on stating a canon (such seems to have already been in place, with no need to state) but more with practical issues of the lectionary - what would be the Sunday readings.


The Council of Laodicea (363) Really just a regional synod, it says that "uncanonical books are not to be read in the churches." While it mentions none by name, clearly all knew what was and was not a "canonical book" since there was no need whatsoever to specify which were so regarded. The canon already existed - clearly - in everyone's mind.

The Council of Hippo (393) Actually, just a regional council, this is the first official meeting (rather than individual) specifically listing the approved lectionary books. It's our 27, the 27 that had been clearly embraced as such for several decades (and in most cases, since the First Century).

The Third Council of Carthage (397) This again listed the by now very well established NT Canon, already agreed upon by consensus by Christians. It's the now familiar 27.

Since then, hundreds upon hundreds of gatherings of various types have confirmed this consensus that Christians developed and which later these councils acknowledged. The RCC did this at the Council of Trent in the 16th Century.



Some words from St. Augustine regarding the Canon:

Augustine (352-430): "Let us treat scripture like scripture, like God speaking. It is not for nothing, you see, that the canon has been established for the Church. This is the function of the Holy Spirit." John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed., The Works of Saint Augustine, Newly Discovered Sermons, Part 3, Vol. 11, trans. Edmund Hill, O.P., Sermon 162C.15 (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1997), p. 176.



A note about the DEUTEROcanonical OT books:

"The New Catholic Encyclopedia states, "The Council of Trent definitively settled the matter of the Old Testament Canon. That this had not been done previously is apparent from the
uncertainty
that persisted up to the time of Trent"






.
 
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SummaScriptura

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By the freakin' way, there is not now, nor has there ever been ONE agreed-upon canonical list of books of the Bible accepted by all Christians.

Amongst non-Arians, there are the following "canons" of scripture I know of:

Old Testament:
1. Most Protestants
2. Anglican
3. Roman Catholic
4. Syrian Orthodox
5. Armenian Orhtodox (historical)
5. Eastern Orthodox
6. Ethiopian Orthodox

New Testament:
1. Protestant/Roman Catholic
2. Syrian Orthodox
3. Armenian Orhtodox (historical)
4. Ethiopian Orthodox

Good news is that amongst all those canons, there is a hard core of 54 books upon which all Christians of all time have agreed and accepted.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Eusebius (d. 340) wrote that Christians all accept 21 books. He lists 4 as ones accepted by most but not by all: James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John (all eventually embraced). And he lists some as "spurious" - Acts of Paul, Shepherd of Hermas, Apocalypse of Peter, the Didache. Most historians fully agree on this situation, although one of that solid 21 (Revelation) some historians think was more debated than Eusebius seems to indicate.

Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 350) does the same for us, listing the books that all Christians embrace as Holy Scripture. His list is the final Canon, except that Revelation was left out, giving us 26 (Matthew - Jude)

There now seems to be little debate at all, a consensus seem pretty solid - God's people settling on a pretty solid list. Although some historians believe that Revelation was still more disputed in the East.
Sometimes I believe it would have been best to not even to have canonized Revelation. Look what it has done to Christianity today :p
 
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MrStain

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Good information on early references to the books of the NT, CaliforniaJosiah. The early Church fathers have given us an abundance of evidence showing their familiarity with the 27 books we contain in our bibles. However, saying the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the formation of the bible -- while simultaneously using quotes from Catholics to support the formation of the same bible -- seems a bit odd.

Ignatius of Antioch (AD 110): "Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Good information on early references to the books of the NT, CaliforniaJosiah. The early Church fathers have given us an abundance of evidence showing their familiarity with the 27 books we contain in our bibles. However, saying the Catholic Church had nothing to do with the formation of the bible -- while simultaneously using quotes from Catholics to support the formation of the same bible -- seems a bit odd.

Ignatius of Antioch (AD 110): "Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
Was it the non-RCs that were against canonizing the book of Revelation?
Which ones ruled against it being in the Canon?
 
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