can you tithe to missionaries instead of church

[Nadiine]

Not only is tithing unscriptural for the church, we need to look at the fruits of the tithing doctrine. In some cases, but not all, we have seen multi million dollar churches and megachurches built. Of course a pastor needs a place to seat a congregation, but some of these buildings are literal palaces. I've also seen some of these ministries turn into a wishy-washy gospel of comprimize: prosperity teaching (which usually benefits the pastor and church staff) and lots of problems with immorality. It becomes the love of money even if they do claim it's for Gods work!
Why don't these same pastors build a humble church without all the glass sparklies, extravagant architecture, and plush furniture? Ezekiel called them "pillow prophets." Or why don't they purchase abandoned buildings that can be restored and used as a church? I've been all over the country and everywhere there are abandoned brick buildings that were once factories, shops, even state hospitals. At a fraction of the cost of a new palace like building, pastors could purchase these and make them into a nice church....

As a teenager we used to go into these old abandoned buildings to party or whatever.... and many of them are structurally sound and quite large enough to seat thousands if converted to churches.

But instaed pastors waste millions on lavish temples when they could have the same seating for less and use the extra money for the poor and missionaries - it also would put far less of a burden on their congregations who end up getting milked by "building fund" messages to build the extravagant churches.

I know what you mean & even agree; but then again, look at the Temple God had King Solomon build to Him...?

I'm going to leave judging about who's in God's will or not when they build a church, to the Lord. I just go where I'm led, I'm responsible for myself.
peace

 

[rosiecotton]

Some churches do buy old buildings and convert them into churches.
Two that I can think of off-hand:
Brooklyn Tabernacle- they bought an old theater. It's my dream to one day visit BT. I love to listen to Jim Cymbala!
Harvest Bible Chapel (James MacDonald) I believe their church was an old warehouse.

 

[seekthetruth909]

Not only is tithing unscriptural for the church, we need to look at the fruits of the tithing doctrine. In some cases, but not all, we have seen multi million dollar churches and megachurches built. Of course a pastor needs a place to seat a congregation, but some of these buildings are literal palaces. I've also seen some of these ministries turn into a wishy-washy gospel of comprimize: prosperity teaching (which usually benefits the pastor and church staff) and lots of problems with immorality. It becomes the love of money even if they do claim it's for Gods work!
Why don't these same pastors build a humble church without all the glass sparklies, extravagant architecture, and plush furniture? Ezekiel called them "pillow prophets." Or why don't they purchase abandoned buildings that can be restored and used as a church? I've been all over the country and everywhere there are abandoned brick buildings that were once factories, shops, even state hospitals. At a fraction of the cost of a new palace like building, pastors could purchase these and make them into a nice church....

As a teenager we used to go into these old abandoned buildings to party or whatever.... and many of them are structurally sound and quite large enough to seat thousands if converted to churches.

But instaed pastors waste millions on lavish temples when they could have the same seating for less and use the extra money for the poor and missionaries - it also would put far less of a burden on their congregations who end up getting milked by "building fund" messages to build the extravagant churches.

Excellent point! Does Jesus say build a worldly palace or sell the palace and help the poor? [Luke 18:20-23] Is this really giving our money to God?
You are absolutely right! The money would be better spent on missionaries and helping the poor.

God Bless

 

[seekthetruth909]

I know what you mean & even agree; but then again, look at the Temple God had King Solomon build to Him...?

I'm going to leave judging about who's in God's will or not when they build a church, to the Lord. I just go where I'm led, I'm responsible for myself.
peace

God allowed the temple to be destroyed shortly after the coming of Christ.

God Bless

 

[Nadiine]

God allowed the temple to be destroyed shortly after the coming of Christ.

God Bless

I don't think that what happened to it was due to God's anger or displeasure of it's richness or anything though.
Like a judgment He had against it.

It was still God's own design and His own specifications to have it made so elaborately...? Unless I'm missing something.
peace

 

[seekthetruth909]

I SO agree w/ the Pastors who serve in China... what do THEY GET? Yet they risk their lives to serve the Lord.
They'll have great reward in heaven!

While I fully agree w/ your statements, financial abuse doesn't warrent throwing out the Baby with the Bathwater imo...

Everything gets abused, I don't think it warrents tearing down the system that was built for us to follow.
We just left my church of 5 years just one month ago for financial misuse by our Pastor (along w/ other things w/ his methods, usurping authority & ethics).
Even after that, I stand by a Pastor earning his wages thru His ministry work.
I think it's sad & horrible, but it doesn't stop me or change my mind.
(GOD will judge Shepherds who abuse.. I always remember, that MY MONEY IS NOT WASTED when a pastor/ministry misuses it sinfully, I RECIEVE HEAVENLY REWARD because I gave faithfully & willingly. It's TO GOD, not man).

RC Sproul had a sermon on seminary graduates over the past decade... what they do and don't believe about God were SHOCKING.
Let's just say, now more than ever, I'm very aware of what I'm being taught.

Jesus warned that as time went on, there would be MANY false teachers.. they multiply & increase.
So it's no wonder we're seeing what you quoted above.
SAD... but a sign of the times we're in.

People are no longer enduring Sound Doctrine.
​

Anyways,I truly understand your position & why you & probably others feel that way & your points are well taken. Bad Shepherds have existed from ancient times to today, nothing's new under the sun.​

peace​

Nadine, I am sorry to hear you had a bad experience with a church. Each of us has to go where The Spirit leads us. I hope you find a good church. I haven’t found a church I feel comfortable with. If I ever did find the, “Perfect Church,” it wouldn’t be perfect after I joined.

I heard about half of Christian seminary graduates do not believe Jesus is the only way. That’s another problem. If a church needs an assistant pastor most of the time they look outside the church for someone with a degree in theology. There church may have mature believers who have worked for years as volunteers at the church. Everyone knows their character, but instead of even considering them for the assistant pastor position, the church looks for a someone who is a stranger and whose character is unknown. Then they wonder why there are so many scandals involving pastors. Pastoring has become a profession instead of a calling. Character and belief in Jesus and the bible becomes irrelevant. The important thing is to keep the congregation awake during the sermon.

Pastors.com found in a survey that over 50% of pastors visit inappropriate content sites. TV is full of rich prosperity preachers preaching about the joys of materialism.
Christianity in the west is in trouble. I am not against church [buildings], but many have lost the way and there are many problems that need to be addressed in the modern church for it to grow spiritually.

God Bless

 

[Nadiine]

Nadine, I am sorry to hear you had a bad experience with a church. Each of us has to go where The Spirit leads us. I hope you find a good church. I haven’t found a church I feel comfortable with. If I ever did find the, “Perfect Church,” it wouldn’t be perfect after I joined.

I heard about half of Christian seminary graduates do not believe Jesus is the only way. That’s another problem. If a church needs an assistant pastor most of the time they look outside the church for someone with a degree in theology. There church may have mature believers who have worked for years as volunteers at the church. Everyone knows their character, but instead of even considering them for the assistant pastor position, the church looks for a someone who is a stranger and whose character is unknown. Then they wonder why there are so many scandals involving pastors. Pastoring has become a profession instead of a calling. Character and belief in Jesus and the bible becomes irrelevant. The important thing is to keep the congregation awake during the sermon.

Pastors.com found in a survey that over 50% of pastors visit inappropriate content sites. TV is full of rich prosperity preachers preaching about the joys of materialism.
Christianity in the west is in trouble. I am not against church [buildings], but many have lost the way and there are many problems that need to be addressed in the modern church for it to grow spiritually.

God Bless

Yes, this is some of the dismal info. I got from RC Sproul in his sermon. Another interesting piece of information on the condition of our younger generations in the church is from Josh McDowell in his book "the last Christian generation". (ie. church turns into social groups & entertainment minus substance, their understanding of Christianity, sin, etc.).

But when I heard seminary grads didn't even agree to the Central beliefs that make us Christians, oh my.

​

I think this is one reason why I'm so harsh on false teaching... not that I "know all truth" myself, but there are just so many wild doctrines floating around when the plain truth is right there to be found using the Bible's simple teaching.

I had posted in another thread that I think the church (leaders/congregants) are being sifted right now or judged & exposed.
Until the church/God's people cleans up, how are we any light to a lost world? (judgment begins in the house of the Lord)...

thanks for the post!

 

[Starcrystal]

I know what you mean & even agree; but then again, look at the Temple God had King Solomon build to Him...?

I'm going to leave judging about who's in God's will or not when they build a church, to the Lord. I just go where I'm led, I'm responsible for myself.
peace

Seems in the OT God had no problem with the Israelites having lots of gold or building expensive things. Then in the NT it may have been God saw that man was irresponsible with riches and after seeing what the Pharisees had done to butcher the law and corrupt the temple, God decided to do away with it. remember Jesus said that kings and rich men reside in palaces when referring to inquiries about John the baptist.
Of course God knew all this stuff would happen before hand but man didn't. I just don't see the necessity of expensive palace type churches nowadays....

Some churches do buy old buildings and convert them into churches.
Two that I can think of off-hand:
Brooklyn Tabernacle- they bought an old theater. It's my dream to one day visit BT. I love to listen to Jim Cymbala!
Harvest Bible Chapel (James MacDonald) I believe their church was an old warehouse.

Some do, and that's good. I think David Wilkerson uses an old building in NYC too....

 

[Nadiine]

Seems in the OT God had no problem with the Israelites having lots of gold or building expensive things. Then in the NT it may have been God saw that man was irresponsible with riches and after seeing what the Pharisees had done to butcher the law and corrupt the temple, God decided to do away with it. remember Jesus said that kings and rich men reside in palaces when referring to inquiries about John the baptist.
Of course God knew all this stuff would happen before hand but man didn't. I just don't see the necessity of expensive palace type churches nowadays....

Some do, and that's good. I think David Wilkerson uses an old building in NYC too....

I understand both sides of this issue -- my point thru this has been the JUDGMENTS we/Christians make upon those who DO spend money on good/new things as if THAT IS EVIL/WRONG/SINFUL...

We shouldn't be judging them at all. No more than the RICH shouldn't be judging those with less. (either way).
If someone wants to build a big huge church, GO FOR IT, if the preaching's good, I'LL GO THERE! . IF God blesses them and they are able to afford it, what's wrong with it?

I just take issue with this seeming disdain towards the way others spend God's money; it's all for the same cause: forwarding the kingdom of God.
I have to let GOD decide this, because building a big new church isnt' condemned in the NT.

Judas was angry that the woman put her precious perfume on Jesus when it was worth so much money....? (ie. it could have been spent on something more useful...even tho his real motive was greed)

There's nothing that says we have to dress in rags & worship in buildings that were previously outhouses in the back 40, you know what I mean?

I guess not everyone will have the same thoughts on this, I'm just careful how I judge people of God...

 

[MaidforHim]

It is my understanding that we are no longer bound by the law to tithe 10%. We are now under the age of Grace and we are now supposed to give according to how and where the Holy Spirit leads us.

10% is a good guide, but no longer the rule. The Holy Spirit might lead some to give more, some to give less. Most months you might give to your church, other times you might be led to give it all to a missionary or someone in need. You might be led to give in 2 places or 20. The Holy Spirit knows best where and how much.

That is what our pastor teaches. I wish I could remember the scripture he uses, but putting the Holy Spirit in charge of your giving and doing so with a joyful heart seems right to me

If my church leaders were behaving like yours I'd pray about whether this is the church he really wanted me to stay in. If they are doing wrong, no doubt God will pull back the curtains on their activities and where their hearts are at at some point in time. Their actions don't sound propper.

 

[MaidforHim]

If my church leaders were behaving like yours I'd pray about whether this is the church he really wanted me to stay in. If they are doing wrong, no doubt God will pull back the curtains on their activities and where their hearts are at at some point in time. Their actions don't sound propper.

I'm not sure that came across well so I'll clarify. It seems wrong to me to avoid having missionaries visit out of fear that it will take money away from your own church. Whether a church invites a missionary in should be something that they pray about. Out of 10 opportunities to have a missionary come visit and speak a church might pray and the Holy Spirit might lead them to invite 3 or 4 or 10 what ever... but it should be spirit led.

To just say "Those people always want money"... wow!

To take it even further and not participate in ANY church functions, prayer, study groups... I don't know. Their spending alone may not be a concern, but added to the attitude of not wanting lose funds to a missionary. To me that sends up a warning flag. It is the attitudes that are of most concern and cause suspicion about their spending IMO

A church should show fruits, saving for a building or project, outreach programs, sponsoring missionaries, something.

You don't have to actually see where the money is going to see the fruit of it. AND you can tell a tree by it's fruit. Are these leaders leading this church in a way that is producing good fruit for God is what I would be looking to answer if this were my church.

 

[artUP]

yes,,, here in our church, we are given envelopes with slips inside where we can choose where do we want our tithes to go...

 

[Starcrystal]

I understand both sides of this issue -- my point thru this has been the JUDGMENTS we/Christians make upon those who DO spend money on good/new things as if THAT IS EVIL/WRONG/SINFUL...

We shouldn't be judging them at all. No more than the RICH shouldn't be judging those with less. (either way).
If someone wants to build a big huge church, GO FOR IT, if the preaching's good, I'LL GO THERE! . IF God blesses them and they are able to afford it, what's wrong with it?

I just take issue with this seeming disdain towards the way others spend God's money; it's all for the same cause: forwarding the kingdom of God.
I have to let GOD decide this, because building a big new church isnt' condemned in the NT.

Judas was angry that the woman put her precious perfume on Jesus when it was worth so much money....? (ie. it could have been spent on something more useful...even tho his real motive was greed)

There's nothing that says we have to dress in rags & worship in buildings that were previously outhouses in the back 40, you know what I mean?

I guess not everyone will have the same thoughts on this, I'm just careful how I judge people of God...

I really had no problem with Jimmy Swaggart - until he fell into sin. I didn't particularly like when he tended to spend a lot of air time asking for money to keep his show on though... but mainly because I wanted to hear annointed messages instead of that.

My issue with some of the large churches is exactly a point you brought up about IF THE PREACHING IS GOOD. Unfortunately some of those large posh churches ended up comprimizing their message to attract the numbers. Right when I got saved the Assembly of God church I was associating with ended up growing larger. In 1985 the messages were good, the preaching good. But more and more money came in and he got caught up in hyper faith/prosperity teaching. Many in his congregation were on welfare. They remained on welfare while their offerings and tithes paid the pastor, who became rich.

I think it was 1986 or 87 when the church split. In fact the Assembly of God hierarchy got involved and the church ended up going independant. The message became more and more watered down. Sin crept in, mainly sexual sins. Even the pastor was not immune.

This was not a huge magachurch but they did have a 1,000+ membership and had to hold 2 services after awhile because they could only seat 600 or 700. They went on TV for awhile and this was after their falling away.

It was mainly the poorer people who split off. I attended another pentecostal church where many of them had gone, but it's membership was about 50 - 70.

Point being I have personally seen a direct connection between a church getting richer and comprimize of the message. It seemed the more money came in, the more money was needed (a church addition, TV ministry, etc), and they comprimized the message to tickle itching ears in order to extract the money from the members.....

But.... if he had kept preaching the true gospel as he was in the early 80s I wouldn't have much of a problem and probably would have stayed in that church for years.

 

[Nadiine]

I really had no problem with Jimmy Swaggart - until he fell into sin. I didn't particularly like when he tended to spend a lot of air time asking for money to keep his show on though... but mainly because I wanted to hear annointed messages instead of that.

My issue with some of the large churches is exactly a point you brought up about IF THE PREACHING IS GOOD. Unfortunately some of those large posh churches ended up comprimizing their message to attract the numbers. Right when I got saved the Assembly of God church I was associating with ended up growing larger. In 1985 the messages were good, the preaching good. But more and more money came in and he got caught up in hyper faith/prosperity teaching. Many in his congregation were on welfare. They remained on welfare while their offerings and tithes paid the pastor, who became rich.

I think it was 1986 or 87 when the church split. In fact the Assembly of God hierarchy got involved and the church ended up going independant. The message became more and more watered down. Sin crept in, mainly sexual sins. Even the pastor was not immune.

This was not a huge magachurch but they did have a 1,000+ membership and had to hold 2 services after awhile because they could only seat 600 or 700. They went on TV for awhile and this was after their falling away.

It was mainly the poorer people who split off. I attended another pentecostal church where many of them had gone, but it's membership was about 50 - 70.

Point being I have personally seen a direct connection between a church getting richer and comprimize of the message. It seemed the more money came in, the more money was needed (a church addition, TV ministry, etc), and they comprimized the message to tickle itching ears in order to extract the money from the members.....

But.... if he had kept preaching the true gospel as he was in the early 80s I wouldn't have much of a problem and probably would have stayed in that church for years.

You make a good case for not preaching the wealth & prosperity doctrines I see on tv alot. God DOES want us to prosper, but not always in the way these preachers are promoting.

The bible is full of warnings to the rich and how not to let it harm you - so I can definitely see why God's people aren't all rolling in the Bux with new Rolex's & Rolls Royces. I do think alot of people can't handle wealth & that's why they aren't rich.

At the same time we know some very wealthy Christians that give majorly to God's work. I guess it's all the person; some handle it fine, some/many don't.

A little twist to your post here, how about the churches that are getting even huger BECAUSE THEY'VE COMPROMISED GOD'S TRUTH? I know one young preacher on TV who's just growing leaps & bounds, but his message is off based (scripture misused) & it's nothing but feel-good philosophy.
They get richer too.

Thanks for your reply

 

[mont974x4]

I know a man who started his own business. He prayed long and hard before doing so. Before he even started he decided that he would give 90% to God and live off 10%. God has so richly blesses him and the he and his wife have newer cars (paid off) and a beautiful house (also paid off).

He does give to his local church but also to missionaries and various charities as the Lord leads.


Being rich isn't wrong. How we handle the gifts (ALL the gifts) He gives us is where we trip up.

 

[Madewhole]

I know this not as the tithe but as the first fruit offering when given to a person of leadership like the pastor, to be a blessing to your leadership. The tithe is to go into the storehouse like it says in Malachi.

 

[revrobor]

I'm coming in a little late here but I just want to support what you have already been told. Your can give your money wherever God tells you to give it. And your Wednesday group DOES NOT have to be under the banner of that church. God bless.

 

[seekthetruth909]

I really had no problem with Jimmy Swaggart - until he fell into sin. I didn't particularly like when he tended to spend a lot of air time asking for money to keep his show on though... but mainly because I wanted to hear annointed messages instead of that.

My issue with some of the large churches is exactly a point you brought up about IF THE PREACHING IS GOOD. Unfortunately some of those large posh churches ended up comprimizing their message to attract the numbers. Right when I got saved the Assembly of God church I was associating with ended up growing larger. In 1985 the messages were good, the preaching good. But more and more money came in and he got caught up in hyper faith/prosperity teaching. Many in his congregation were on welfare. They remained on welfare while their offerings and tithes paid the pastor, who became rich.

I think it was 1986 or 87 when the church split. In fact the Assembly of God hierarchy got involved and the church ended up going independant. The message became more and more watered down. Sin crept in, mainly sexual sins. Even the pastor was not immune.

This was not a huge magachurch but they did have a 1,000+ membership and had to hold 2 services after awhile because they could only seat 600 or 700. They went on TV for awhile and this was after their falling away.

It was mainly the poorer people who split off. I attended another pentecostal church where many of them had gone, but it's membership was about 50 - 70.

Point being I have personally seen a direct connection between a church getting richer and comprimize of the message. It seemed the more money came in, the more money was needed (a church addition, TV ministry, etc), and they comprimized the message to tickle itching ears in order to extract the money from the members.....

But.... if he had kept preaching the true gospel as he was in the early 80s I wouldn't have much of a problem and probably would have stayed in that church for years.

Starcrystal you have made some excellent observations.The early Christian church had small cell groups who met mostly in houses. The Catholic Church came up with the mega church concept and unfortunately when the church split and the protestant church was formed, the mega church concept was copied to a degree from the Catholic Church.

In the last 20 years super mega churches have begun to appear. You are correct, in order for them to recruit people, the message is watered down and the concept of sin avoided. [unless it is the sins of non-Christians] Many people flock to these churches. The preaching makes them feel good and self righteous about themselves. They are guaranteed salvation for very little commitment and no works. The preacher preaches about the sins of the secular community, avoiding sins most of us Christians commit, like selfishness, pride, gossip, self-righteousness, gluttony, and divorce in some cases. Independence, self-fulfillment, and self-reliance, concepts borrowed from new age teachings are taught. Increasing numbers take precedence over the true gospel. The gospel of guaranteed material prosperity is preached. Materialism is good now and the dozens of scriptures in the bible condemning it must had been misinterpreted.

Somewhere the values and examples of the early church have been lost.We desire to build golden temples like the Jews did in the Old Testament forgetting that the Temple of God is now inside of all of us.

God Bless

1 Peter 2:5 “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

 

[rosiecotton]

I just wanted to state one thing.
Just because a church is big does not mean it has watered down the message. I know some are that way, but I think people are too quick to judge a church that is big and think they must be watering down the message in order to have that many people there.
I don't believe they are all like that. I believe many are blessed by God and that is the reason they are growing, not because the message is watered-down.

 

[Starcrystal]

I just wanted to state one thing.
Just because a church is big does not mean it has watered down the message. I know some are that way, but I think people are too quick to judge a church that is big and think they must be watering down the message in order to have that many people there.
I don't believe they are all like that. I believe many are blessed by God and that is the reason they are growing, not because the message is watered-down.

True. And I by no means ever implied that ALL huge churches have comprimized - just that many have and it's all about money and numbers.

A little twist to your post here, how about the churches that are getting even huger BECAUSE THEY'VE COMPROMISED GOD'S TRUTH? I know one young preacher on TV who's just growing leaps & bounds, but his message is off based (scripture misused) & it's nothing but feel-good philosophy.
They get richer too.

I think there was thread devoted to this one, or one like him. Joel Osteen? An older one that comes to mind, and who probably has one of the most expensive churches in the nation is Robert Shuller. Talk about feel good message.
Right after I got saved I wanted to soak up anything to do with God so I turned to the TV ministries even before I set foot in church. I watched Jimmy Swaggart, Richard Roberts, Jim & Tammy Baker, Robert Shuller, and the 700 Club. It must have been the Holy Spirit doing it because I just had this inner feeling that something was amiss with the middle 3 I mentioned. I replaced those shows with Jerry Falwell and Charles Stanley. After a couple years Charles Stanley was the only one of all these ministers I'd watch, for reasons we don't need to get into if you know anything about the 80s TV ministers.