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Happy to go into the detail. Don't you need scripture first to defines what "the seed" means?
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CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?
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Happy to go into the detail. Don't you need scripture first to defines what "the seed" means?
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True dear Victor, but how do we know if we have made our calling and election sure?
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A friend put together 10 or 15 pages on this subject that I could give you in one link if you are interested.
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It is ok Peter this is not a difficult question. I know the scriptures that define what God's Word means when it refers to "the seed". What do you think it means?
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Can you lose Eternal Life ?
The answer is NO otherwise its mis-named and should be called conditional life or temporal life. The fact its called ETERNAL life means it never ends.
And there is not a single case in all scripture where a person who has/had eternal life had it taken away.
hope this helps !!!
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What do you think Hebrews 4:6-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 mean? What if you stop believing and following God's Word and return and continue in known unrepentant sin? Do you still have eternal life if you have now become and unrepentant sinner and unbeliever in Gods' Word?
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CaspianSails
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We cannot lose our salvation. Here's the link. Enjoy if you care to do so.
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/appx/
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I disagree with what you have posted dear friend. If you say you cannot lose your salvation. Peter perhaps you would like to explain what Hebrews 6:4-8 mean and Hebrews 10:26-27. These scriptures in Hebrews outline those who were truly born again and once a part of the faith but departed the faith to live in unrepentant sin. Perhaps you can tell us why we are warned not to grieve God's Spirit if we cannot lose it *Ephesians 4:30? You should not believe everything you read from the Word of website.
I will post some more as to why I do not believe your link below for your interest...
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WE ARE WARNED NOT TO GRIVE GOD'S SPIRIT SO IT DOES NOT DEPART US
Let's start with an interesting view on Ephesians 4:30 which I believe can have many complimentary (not contradictory) applications not just the one below (It is God's Word after all)
EPHESIANS 4:30 [30], And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, in whom ye were SEALED TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.
Note; the Greek word used in this warning for sealed is σφραγίζω; sphragizō to stamp as a private mark for security or preservation. It does not mean that God's Spirit cannot leave or depart us.
So the meaning applied here is that the Holy Spirit is given to BELIEVERS as a sign of preservation or mark in the "present tense".
Note here also that the scripture tells us that we are SEALED TO THE DAY OF REDEPTION. Or the Holy Spirit SEALS BELIEVERS TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION!
The Greek word for THE DAY OF REDEMPTION is ἀπολύτρωσις; apolutrōsis which means; the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance.
This has reference to the cross and the ransom paid at the cross at Calvery by JESUS for our sins. It also has reference to the 2nd coming but let's focus on the literal Greek meaning here for minuete as we cannot have the one without the other. The Greek word REDEMTION used here means; the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance.
The meaning here has implication that BELIEVERS are SEALED with God's SPIRIT not because of anything we have done, but because of the revelation of God's LOVE revealed at the day of redemption which is the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance where God sent His only son to die the death that we deserve so that whosoever BELIEVES on His should not perish but have everylasting life *JOHN 3:16.
An application of the scriptures here meaning that the Holy Spirit seals us to the DAY OF REDEMPTION where JESUS paid the ransom for our sins; paid price of our sins and to die the death that we deserve to die so that we can be reconciled to God not to die for our sins; we have been redeemed from our sins; saved from our sins through FAITH to be called the sons and daughters of God.
The application of the scriptures here meaning that the HOLY SPIRIT leads BELIEVERS and SEALS them to the cross of JESUS so that whosever believes in the gift of God's dear son should not perish but have eternal life *JOHN 3:16.
..............
BREAKING ANY OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT
We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN (UNBELIEF and BREAKING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS)
EPHESIANS 4:30 [30], And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
HEBREWS 3:17 [17], BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
PSALMS 95:10-11 [10], Forty years long was I GRIEVED with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: [11], To whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
HEBREWS 3:10-11; 17-19 [10], Why I was GRIEVED with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
[17], BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? [18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19], So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF.
PSALMS 119:158 [158], I BEHELD THE TRANSGRESSORS AND WAS GRIEVED; because they kept not your word.
GOD is GRIEVED by SIN and the wages of sin is death...
GENESIS 6:5-7 [5], And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6], And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it GRIEVED HIM AT HIS HEART. [7], And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.
.....................
IF WE DO NOT REPENT FROM KNOWN SIN WE DO NOT HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT or FORGIVENESS
ACT 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, REPENT, AND BE BAPTISED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
ACT 3:19 [19], REPENT YOU THEREFORE AND BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
ACT 8:22 [22], REPENT THEREFORE OF THIS YOUR WICKEDNESS, AND PRAY GOD, IF PERHAPS THE THOUGHT OF YOUR HEART MAY BE FORGIVEN YOU.
ACT 17:30 [30], And the TIMES OF IGNORANCE GOD WINKED AT; BUT NOW CALLS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.
............
ACT 26:20 [20], But showed first to them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that THEY SHOULD REPENT AND TURN TO GOD AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE.
...........
KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN GRIEVES GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT and will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM just like it was in the days of NOAH so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man (Matthew 24:37-39).
Let's start with an interesting view on Ephesians 4:30 which I believe can have many complimentary (not contradictory) applications not just the one below (It is God's Word after all)
EPHESIANS 4:30 [30], And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, in whom ye were SEALED TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.
Note; the Greek word used in this warning for sealed is σφραγίζω; sphragizō to stamp as a private mark for security or preservation. It does not mean that God's Spirit cannot leave or depart us.
So the meaning applied here is that the Holy Spirit is given to BELIEVERS as a sign of preservation or mark in the "present tense".
Note here also that the scripture tells us that we are SEALED TO THE DAY OF REDEPTION. Or the Holy Spirit SEALS BELIEVERS TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION!
The Greek word for THE DAY OF REDEMPTION is ἀπολύτρωσις; apolutrōsis which means; the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance.
This has reference to the cross and the ransom paid at the cross at Calvery by JESUS for our sins. It also has reference to the 2nd coming but let's focus on the literal Greek meaning here for minuete as we cannot have the one without the other. The Greek word REDEMTION used here means; the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance.
The meaning here has implication that BELIEVERS are SEALED with God's SPIRIT not because of anything we have done, but because of the revelation of God's LOVE revealed at the day of redemption which is the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance where God sent His only son to die the death that we deserve so that whosoever BELIEVES on His should not perish but have everylasting life *JOHN 3:16.
An application of the scriptures here meaning that the Holy Spirit seals us to the DAY OF REDEMPTION where JESUS paid the ransom for our sins; paid price of our sins and to die the death that we deserve to die so that we can be reconciled to God not to die for our sins; we have been redeemed from our sins; saved from our sins through FAITH to be called the sons and daughters of God.
The application of the scriptures here meaning that the HOLY SPIRIT leads BELIEVERS and SEALS them to the cross of JESUS so that whosever believes in the gift of God's dear son should not perish but have eternal life *JOHN 3:16.
..............
BREAKING ANY OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT
We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN (UNBELIEF and BREAKING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS)
EPHESIANS 4:30 [30], And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
HEBREWS 3:17 [17], BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
PSALMS 95:10-11 [10], Forty years long was I GRIEVED with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: [11], To whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
HEBREWS 3:10-11; 17-19 [10], Why I was GRIEVED with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
[17], BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? [18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19], So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF.
PSALMS 119:158 [158], I BEHELD THE TRANSGRESSORS AND WAS GRIEVED; because they kept not your word.
GOD is GRIEVED by SIN and the wages of sin is death...
GENESIS 6:5-7 [5], And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6], And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it GRIEVED HIM AT HIS HEART. [7], And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.
.....................
IF WE DO NOT REPENT FROM KNOWN SIN WE DO NOT HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT or FORGIVENESS
ACT 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, REPENT, AND BE BAPTISED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
ACT 3:19 [19], REPENT YOU THEREFORE AND BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
ACT 8:22 [22], REPENT THEREFORE OF THIS YOUR WICKEDNESS, AND PRAY GOD, IF PERHAPS THE THOUGHT OF YOUR HEART MAY BE FORGIVEN YOU.
ACT 17:30 [30], And the TIMES OF IGNORANCE GOD WINKED AT; BUT NOW CALLS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.
............
ACT 26:20 [20], But showed first to them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that THEY SHOULD REPENT AND TURN TO GOD AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE.
...........
KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN GRIEVES GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT and will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM just like it was in the days of NOAH so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man (Matthew 24:37-39).
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CAN WE FALL AWAY AND DEPART THE FAITH AND GRIVE GOD'S SPIRIT AND LOSE SALVATION?
CAN WE FALL AWAY AND DEPART THE FAITH?
1 JOHN 2:18-19
[18], Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
What did they go out from? Yep you guessed it. They went out from the truth. The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers. They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer belied and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (Believers and followers of Gods' Word). If they contunued with us then then would be continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word and would have been of us. No longer believing God's Word they went out from us. If you no longer believe and follow the truth of God's Word to the end then you are no longer of us. The very scripture you supply disagrees with your interpretation of it showing that anyone can FALL AWAY from the truth and no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD as shown in the very scriptures you quote or ignore...
HEBREWS 3:7-19
[7], Why (as the Holy Ghost said, To day if you will hear his voice, [8], Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
[9], When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.[10], Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
[12], TAKE HEED BRETHEREN LEST THERE BE IN ANY OF YOU AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.
[13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
[14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
[15], While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
[16], For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
[17], But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
[18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, BUT TO THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT?
[19], So we see that they could not enter in BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.
2 THESSALONIANS 2:3-4
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the FALLING AWAY comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 THESSALONIANS 2:9-10
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.
HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.
2 PETER 2:1-22
[1], But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
[2], And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
[3], And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
[4], For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment;
[5], And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
[6], And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample to those that after should live ungodly;
[7], And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[8], For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;
[9], The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust to the day of judgment to be punished:
[10], But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
[11], Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
[12], But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
[13], And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
[14], Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
[15], WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
[16], But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
[17], These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
[18], For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
[19], While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[20], FOR IT THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE THEN THE BEGGINING.
[21], FOR IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEN NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIEVERED UNTO THEM.
[22], But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
..............
Yep seems Peter thinks that you can know and follow God and then turn back from God to follow SIN and leave God....
links to....
HEBREWS 10:26-31
26, FOR IT WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
27, BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, OF HOW MUCH MORE SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.
HEBREWS 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back; my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
GALATIANS 1:6
[6] I marvel that you are TURNING AWAY SO SOON from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, TO A DIFFERENT GOSPEL.
ACTS 20:28-31
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
HEBREWS 2:1-3
Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, LEST WE DRIFT AWAY. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him.
HEBREWS 10:35-38
[35], CAST NOT AWAY THEREFORE YOUR CONFIDENCE, which has great recompense of reward. [36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise. [37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [38], Now the just shall live by faith: BUT IF ANY MAN SHALL DRAW BACK, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Seems both PAUL and PETER agree together that you can KNOW GOd have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
ISAIAH 59:1-3
1, Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2, BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD, AND YOUR SINS HAVE HID HIS FACE FROM YOU THAT HE WILL NOT HEAR.
3, For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with SIN; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness.
Seems Isaiah agrees with Peter and Paul that SIN can separate us from GOD.
EZEKIEL 3:17-21
[17], Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
[18], When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand.
[19], Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
[20], AGAIN, WHEN A RIGHTEOUS MAN DOES TURN FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT INIQUITY, AND I LAY A STUMBLING BLOCK BEFORE HIM, HE SHALL DIE IN HIS SIN, AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH HE HAS DONE SHALL NOT BE REMEMBERED; but his blood I will require from your hand.
[21], Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.
Well there we have it Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JOSHUA 23:11-13
[11], Take good heed therefore to yourselves, that you love the LORD your God.
[12], ELSE IF YOU IN ANY WISE GO BACK TO JOIN TO THE REMNANNT OF THESE NATIONS, EVEN THESE THAT REMAIN AMONG YOU AND SHALL MAKE MARRIAGES WITH THEM AND GO IN UNTO THEM AND THEY TO YOU:
[13], KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY THAT THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL NO MORE DRIVE OUT THESE NATIONS FROM BEFORE YOU.; but they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.
Now Joshua is joining Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
NUMBERS 14:43
[43], For there the Amalekites and the Canaanites are facing you, and you shall fall by the sword. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TURNED BACK FROM FOLLOWING THE LORD, the Lord will not be with you.”
Now you can also add Moses to Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JAMES 5:19
[19], My brothers, IF ANY AMONG YOU WANDERS FROM THE TRUTH AND SOMEONE BRINGS HIM BACK, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Seems also James agrees with Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JEREMIAH 3:8-14
[8], And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[9], And it came to pass through the lightness of her prostitution, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
[10], And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to me with her whole heart, but feignedly, said the LORD.
[11], And the LORD said to me, The backsliding Israel has justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
[12], Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, RETURN FAITHLESS ISRAEL, declares the Lord. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the Lord; I will not be angry forever.
[13], Only acknowledge your iniquity, that you have transgressed against the LORD your God, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every green tree, and you have not obeyed my voice, said the LORD.
[14], TURN O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, said the LORD; for I am married to you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
Looks like we can add Jeremaiah to James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JOEL 2:13
[13], And rend your hearts and not your garments. RETURN TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.
LUKE 8:13 [13], They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.
Well here so far we have Joel, Jeremaiah, James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter, Luke and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and FALL AWAY back into SIN ANS DEPART THE FAITH.
As you can see above Peter Gods' Word disagrees with your website linke.
Hope this is helpful.
CAN WE FALL AWAY AND DEPART THE FAITH?
1 JOHN 2:18-19
[18], Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[19], They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
What did they go out from? Yep you guessed it. They went out from the truth. The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers. They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer belied and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (Believers and followers of Gods' Word). If they contunued with us then then would be continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word and would have been of us. No longer believing God's Word they went out from us. If you no longer believe and follow the truth of God's Word to the end then you are no longer of us. The very scripture you supply disagrees with your interpretation of it showing that anyone can FALL AWAY from the truth and no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD as shown in the very scriptures you quote or ignore...
HEBREWS 3:7-19
[7], Why (as the Holy Ghost said, To day if you will hear his voice, [8], Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
[9], When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.[10], Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
[12], TAKE HEED BRETHEREN LEST THERE BE IN ANY OF YOU AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.
[13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
[14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end;
[15], While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
[16], For some, when they had heard, did provoke: however, not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
[17], But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
[18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, BUT TO THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT?
[19], So we see that they could not enter in BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.
2 THESSALONIANS 2:3-4
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the FALLING AWAY comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 THESSALONIANS 2:9-10
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.
HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.
2 PETER 2:1-22
[1], But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
[2], And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
[3], And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
[4], For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment;
[5], And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
[6], And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample to those that after should live ungodly;
[7], And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[8], For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;
[9], The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust to the day of judgment to be punished:
[10], But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
[11], Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
[12], But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
[13], And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
[14], Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
[15], WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
[16], But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
[17], These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
[18], For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
[19], While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[20], FOR IT THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE THEN THE BEGGINING.
[21], FOR IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEN NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIEVERED UNTO THEM.
[22], But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
..............
Yep seems Peter thinks that you can know and follow God and then turn back from God to follow SIN and leave God....
links to....
HEBREWS 10:26-31
26, FOR IT WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
27, BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, OF HOW MUCH MORE SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.
HEBREWS 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back; my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
GALATIANS 1:6
[6] I marvel that you are TURNING AWAY SO SOON from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, TO A DIFFERENT GOSPEL.
ACTS 20:28-31
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
HEBREWS 2:1-3
Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, LEST WE DRIFT AWAY. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him.
HEBREWS 10:35-38
[35], CAST NOT AWAY THEREFORE YOUR CONFIDENCE, which has great recompense of reward. [36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise. [37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [38], Now the just shall live by faith: BUT IF ANY MAN SHALL DRAW BACK, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Seems both PAUL and PETER agree together that you can KNOW GOd have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
ISAIAH 59:1-3
1, Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2, BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD, AND YOUR SINS HAVE HID HIS FACE FROM YOU THAT HE WILL NOT HEAR.
3, For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with SIN; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness.
Seems Isaiah agrees with Peter and Paul that SIN can separate us from GOD.
EZEKIEL 3:17-21
[17], Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
[18], When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand.
[19], Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
[20], AGAIN, WHEN A RIGHTEOUS MAN DOES TURN FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT INIQUITY, AND I LAY A STUMBLING BLOCK BEFORE HIM, HE SHALL DIE IN HIS SIN, AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH HE HAS DONE SHALL NOT BE REMEMBERED; but his blood I will require from your hand.
[21], Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.
Well there we have it Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JOSHUA 23:11-13
[11], Take good heed therefore to yourselves, that you love the LORD your God.
[12], ELSE IF YOU IN ANY WISE GO BACK TO JOIN TO THE REMNANNT OF THESE NATIONS, EVEN THESE THAT REMAIN AMONG YOU AND SHALL MAKE MARRIAGES WITH THEM AND GO IN UNTO THEM AND THEY TO YOU:
[13], KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY THAT THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL NO MORE DRIVE OUT THESE NATIONS FROM BEFORE YOU.; but they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.
Now Joshua is joining Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
NUMBERS 14:43
[43], For there the Amalekites and the Canaanites are facing you, and you shall fall by the sword. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TURNED BACK FROM FOLLOWING THE LORD, the Lord will not be with you.”
Now you can also add Moses to Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JAMES 5:19
[19], My brothers, IF ANY AMONG YOU WANDERS FROM THE TRUTH AND SOMEONE BRINGS HIM BACK, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Seems also James agrees with Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JEREMIAH 3:8-14
[8], And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[9], And it came to pass through the lightness of her prostitution, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
[10], And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to me with her whole heart, but feignedly, said the LORD.
[11], And the LORD said to me, The backsliding Israel has justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
[12], Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, RETURN FAITHLESS ISRAEL, declares the Lord. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the Lord; I will not be angry forever.
[13], Only acknowledge your iniquity, that you have transgressed against the LORD your God, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every green tree, and you have not obeyed my voice, said the LORD.
[14], TURN O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, said the LORD; for I am married to you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
Looks like we can add Jeremaiah to James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
JOEL 2:13
[13], And rend your hearts and not your garments. RETURN TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.
LUKE 8:13 [13], They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.
Well here so far we have Joel, Jeremaiah, James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter, Luke and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and FALL AWAY back into SIN ANS DEPART THE FAITH.
As you can see above Peter Gods' Word disagrees with your website linke.
Hope this is helpful.
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- Jun 5, 2017
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Actually your claim here is a logical fallacy as no one according to the scriptures lose their eternal life until after the second coming of JESUS when the unrepentant wicked receive the second death in the lake of fire. So your post here is not true.
Hope this helps.
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Well that is not true. Please read Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27. Also you may want to consider why we are warned in the scriptures not to "fall away" or "depart the faith" if we are not able to do so. Scriptures already provided in post # 72 linked and losing God's Spirit by greiving it through sin in post # 71 linked. If you disagree your welcome to show why through the scriptures which disagree with you as provided in the linked posts above.
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Victor in Christ
Jehovah Tsidkenu
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I can only reply on my own personal relationship with Christ and it is similar to what you posted in post 71.
God the Holy Spirit our Sealer
Everyone's relationship with Christ will be different and they'll know they've made their calling and election sure by receiving the Holy Spirit, as their comforter, teacher, guide, etc who'll walk with them in Christ, never against him. Every believers experience will be different with the Holy spirit, tailormade to that individual.
There is also something we must be aware of and that is to test the Spirit which we have received as believers. Has the believer fell back into their old practices and abandoned Christ completely? are the fruits of that believer Christlike in what they claim to profess. Do they act and behave like a Christian?. This testing is a lifelong thing (frequent self-examination is needed) as many Christians (including myself) could think they are elected and could even deceive the very elect themselves, according to scripture. John Gill's commentary on Psalms 1 is one chapter which deals with that issue.
This is a warning to me and to every other professing Christian because i was asked what this experience was like by a seasoned minister and warned by a seasoned elder that it must be tested.
God bless.
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Hebrews 6 could easily be referring to walking away from God like a child walks away from their parents. Both are still their offspring. Everlasting life, or salvation, is a gift. It is not earned in the first place. Secondly, once a gift is given, it is yours. It is not up to the giver to take it back. It is yours forever. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance. That means God does not take back the gift or calling he has given.
People are stuck on earning their salvation and therefore cannot accept that salvation is a gift. Rewards in contrast are earned and dependent on works.
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Who is the "you" being referred to here in v9? The you in v9 are those who the epistle is written to not the subject matter of Hebrews 6:4-8 that have departed God. Therefore it is not the "you" of Hebrews 6:4-8.
HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Context matters....
Hope this helps.
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