CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

[sparow]

WHAT CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD?

ISAIAH 59:1-2 [1], Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: [2], But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Lawlessness is on thing; "depart from Me you who practice Lawlessness".

 

[Victor in Christ]

CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

not if you've made your calling and election sure. keep living in faith in Christ your saviour like the OT Saints looked forward to, look forward to eternity and keep following the Lord's commandments fulfilled in the NT and strive to live a blameless holy life on this Earth.

Keep your feet grounded on the rock Christ Jesus

 

[Basil the Great]

All of you who keep promoting this doctrine keep forgetting that we have free will. We are not puppets on a string. We do not lose our ability to forsake Jesus when we become Christians. Surely we all know or have read about about Christians who have lost their faith and either have become atheists or have converted to Judaism or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism. Some of these who have lost their faith have even been ordained ministers or priests. Yes, I know you keep saying that those who lose their faith never truly had it, but you cannot know this for certain. Only God can judge a person's faith.

I know that you mean well when you keep pushing this "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine, but there seems to be little evidence for the doctrine in the Early Church. Not only that, but there is evidence against the doctrine, as the Early Church strongly felt that a Christian could lose his salvation if he committed a grave/mortal sin and died without having said sin forgiven. This is still the teaching of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches today.

 

[Victor in Christ]

All of you who keep promoting this doctrine keep forgetting that we have free will. We are not puppets on a string. We do not lose our ability to forsake Jesus when we become Christians. Surely we all know or have read about about Christians who have lost their faith and either have become atheists or have converted to Judaism or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism. Some of these who have lost their faith have even been ordained ministers or priests. Yes, I know you keep saying that those who lose their faith never truly had it, but you cannot know this for certain. Only God can judge a person's faith.

I know that you mean well when you keep pushing this "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine, but there seems to be little evidence for the doctrine in the Early Church. Not only that, but there is evidence against the doctrine, as the Early Church strongly felt that a Christian could lose his salvation if he committed a grave/mortal sin and died without having said sin forgiven. This is still the teaching of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches today.

There are lots of scripture in the old and new Testament which prove Christ will keep his elect. I do not know what angle you are going with this..........

What do you mean?. that sin talked about in the epistle of John which he never detailed?

are you suggesting only Popes, Bishops, Priests are aware of this particular sin?...if so, why don't they share it? The Gospel is FREE.

1 John 5:13-21

 

[Basil the Great]

No, I am not specifically referring to the sin talked about in the epistle of John. I am just pointing out that the doctrine supported in this thread runs counter to the beliefs of the Early Church. Now that does not necessarily mean that the doctrine is wrong, but it should at the very least cause everyone to ask why the Early Church absolutely believed that one could lose his/her salvation?

 

[Victor in Christ]

were they elected in the first place or adversaries of God? Were they seeking their own wisdom(spirit) or God's(spirit)?

Psalm 109

Look at the book of Acts, Peter was acting like his usual self, interpreting scripture using scripture to select Matthias (who we never hear off since) as the next disciple using Psalm 109. Peter probably got it wrong because he acted hastily before the Holy Spirit came down in chapter 2 to all the disciples. They cast forth their lots before the Holy spirit came down.

IS THAT NOT A WARNING TO EVERY CHRISTIAN ?

That is very much like us. We rush into things without seeking the holy spirit for guidance and we error. We're no different to the early church fathers and they are no different to us.

god Bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No can't loose the seed of Christ.

Hi Peter what does can't lose the seed of Christ mean in your view? (scripture please)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, I am not specifically referring to the sin talked about in the epistle of John. I am just pointing out that the doctrine supported in this thread runs counter to the beliefs of the Early Church. Now that does not necessarily mean that the doctrine is wrong, but it should at the very least cause everyone to ask why the Early Church absolutely believed that one could lose his/her salvation?

Hi Basil, what doctrine is supported in this thread?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Many blessings to you by brother.
Over the course of my life with Christ I must admit my thoughts on this in particular have changed. If you are producing Christlike fruit and your life is a reflection of the fruits of the spirit and as you progress through life you are becoming more and more like Christ, then I think you know without a doubt. Christ taught that the wheat and the chaff would be co-mingled within the church, by church I mean the universal or worldwide body of believers which currently exists. There are weeds in the church sown by the enemy. But Christ warned us to not pull them out as by doing so we may uproot the wheat. If you think about a church one can understand how this could happen quite easily. The weeds are like those who claim to have done things in the name of Christ but He never knew them. They also knew they were not children of God but at the judgement cry out regardless. So you know if you are His. You can fool others, you can fool me, but you cannot fool God and you cannot completely fool yourself. I think your next to last statement also sheds light on this, you who practice sin. Ask yourself this question, can a follower of Christ practice sin? Not can a follower sin but can a follower practice sin. Some will say a follower cannot sin, I am not thoroughly convinced of that due to 1 John 3:9. But I don't want to turn this into that.

Hey Caspian great post. Thanks for sharing it with us. I believe there is much to learn in your post here.

God bless

 

[Basil the Great]

Hi Basil, what doctrine is supported in this thread?

I thought this thread as supporting the "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine.

 

[Victor in Christ]

I thought this thread as supporting the "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine.

surely that would be the case? unless you're against the will of almighty God in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

also a warning to stay away from anyone who would try to make you falter in your faith, family, friends, parents, etc, etc. Your love for Christ conquers all other love on this earth.

 

[Victor in Christ]

Judas Iscariot lost his salvation so the obvious answer is yes.

did he ever possess it? or was he ever given it by God?

 

[Basil the Great]

Yes, I am aware of the doctrine and it is supported in the New Testament, but not completely so. After all, Jesus said in Matthew that many will call him "Lord", but He will turn to them and say that He never knew them. You also have the verse in Philippians 2:12 about working out your salvation with fear and trembling. Such an admonition does not sound like one's salvation is a certainty.

It seems to me that claiming the "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine is presuming too much for ourselves. We cannot judge ourselves. Only God can pronounce judgment. We have hope, yes, but I think we err when we presume to know what only God can know for certain.

 

[Barney2.0]

did he ever possess it? or was he ever given it by God?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28

Judas lost his throne the moment he thought about betraying Christ and this throne was later given to Matthias.

 

[Victor in Christ]

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28

Judas lost his throne the moment he thought about betraying Christ and this throne was later given to Matthias.

yeah. Christ knew Judas wasn't called, so he didn't loose his salvation, he never had it. It's just like the goats and the sheep, the wheat and the tares.

Many can pretend, but know deep inside what's in their heart. Is it my heritage, my family, the money, etc that's put me in this sacred position?....

Who is it?....is it the spirit of man or thee Spirit of God?

God Bless.

 

[Barney2.0]

yeah. Christ knew Judas wasn't called, so he didn't loose his salvation, he never had it. It's just like the goats and the sheep, the wheat and the tares.

Many can pretend, but know deep inside what's in their heart. Is it my heritage, my family, the money, etc that's put me in this sacred position?....

Who is it?....is it the spirit of man or thee Spirit of God?

God Bless.

Judas was originally one of the Twelve so he was called by Christ just as the others were.

 

[Jord Simcha]

Hi Peter what does can't lose the seed of Christ mean in your view? (scripture please)

I'll answer that, hope you don't mind:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23

Abides forever.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I thought this thread as supporting the "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine.

No, no go read the OP.

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'll answer that, hope you don't mind:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23

Abides forever.

The Word of God does abide forever in those who believe and follow it. The Word of God however is not abiding in those who reject it or do not believe it. Read Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31

 

[Peterlag]

Hi Peter what does can't lose the seed of Christ mean in your view? (scripture please)

How about if we look for a verse that calls it a seed. Or referring to it as a birth. Or everlasting. How about you come up with just one verse that says we can loose our seed.