CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

[Hammster]

Because He has left our fate in our hands. John 3:18

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭NASB‬‬

It wouldn’t make much sense to judge people according to whether or not they believe if God hasn’t enabled them to believe.

There are many verses that contradict God’s election and predestination.

People are judged because of sin.

 

[royal priest]

Jesus didn’t say The Father cuts off every branch that has the pretense of being in Me. You see how your forced to change what He actually said in order to fit your beliefs? This is not a good way to interpret scriptures. We must let the scriptures do the teaching and not change what it says in order to fit our beliefs.

I'm allowing the Bible to interpret itself by embracing the truth that Jesus actually saves sinners

 

[Hammster]

Paul also said in verse 16 that we are a servant of the master of who we serve ether a servant of righteousness leading to life or a servant of disobedience resulting in death.

“Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

If no one could lose their salvation then John 15:1-10 is a useless message. How then could anyone who is in Christ be cut off from the vine (Which is Christ) How could anyone fail to abide in Christ?

It makes sense if don’t start in chapter 15.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm allowing the Bible to interpret itself by embracing the truth that Jesus actually saves sinners

Did he save the Pharisees? If not why?

Let me rephrase that. Does He save all sinners? If not why?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It makes sense if don’t start in chapter 15.

How so?

 

[Hammster]

How so?

Because there’s many other prior to chapter 15 that talk about Jesus giving eternal life, and not losing those given to Him by His Father.

 

[royal priest]

Did he save the Pharisees? If not why?

Let me rephrase that. Does He save all sinners? If not why?

He saves every kind of sinner. There is neither Jew nor Greek, etc. No one is beyond the scope of God's electing love. Including Saul of Tarsus

 

[BNR32FAN]

Because there’s many other prior to chapter 15 that talk about Jesus giving eternal life, and not losing those given to Him by His Father.

Not losing those who hear, follow and cometh I’m presuming, and all stated in the present tense. And I showed where it is God’s desire that He should lose none in John 6:39-40. The same word used in 1 Timothy 2:4. Another important point to consider is what did the early church teach? Where is there any evidence of reformed theology in early church writings, preferably before the 16th century. There is none. So did all of the churches established by the apostles have it wrong until John Calvin and Martin Luther came along over 1500 years later?

 

[BNR32FAN]

He saves every kind of sinner. There is neither Jew nor Greek, etc. No one is beyond the scope of God's electing love. Including Saul of Tarsus

Ahhh, I think your avoiding the question friend. He doesn’t save all sinners. Why, because some choose not to repent and come into the light. They don’t want their sins exposed, they prefer their sin over serving God. So saying that Jesus is the Savior of sinners is true but is He the Savior of the unrepentant sinner? No He is not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Because there’s many other prior to chapter 15 that talk about Jesus giving eternal life, and not losing those given to Him by His Father.

Don’t get me wrong the reformation was a good idea given the situation with the Roman Catholic Church at that time. Unfortunately they just didn’t get their doctrines correct. I often wonder if perhaps they may have been blinded by their obsession with refuting Roman Catholic doctrines & traditions so much that they refuted even the true teachings of the apostles. The Roman Church had a lot of false teachings but not everything they taught was incorrect.

 

[royal priest]

Ahhh, I think your avoiding the question friend. He doesn’t save all sinners. Why, because some choose not to repent and come into the light. They don’t want their sins exposed, they prefer their sin over serving God. So saying that Jesus is the Savior of sinners is true but is He the Savior of the unrepentant sinner? No He is not.

I never said He was, nor will I. Saul of Tarsus asked "who shall deliver me from this body of death?" What was his answer? Who shall deliver the sinner from his sin?

 

[Hammster]

Not losing those who hear, follow and cometh I’m presuming, and all stated in the present tense. And I showed where it is God’s desire that He should lose none in John 6:39-40. The same word used in 1 Timothy 2:4. Another important point to consider is what did the early church teach? Where is there any evidence of reformed theology in early church writings, preferably before the 16th century. There is none. So did all of the churches established by the apostles have it wrong until John Calvin and Martin Luther came along over 1500 years later?

Not all of them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never said He was, nor will I. Saul of Tarsus asked "who shall deliver me from this body of death?" What was his answer? Who shall deliver the sinner from his sin?

He also said this

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ 2:12 NASB

Notice how Paul includes even himself as being capable of denying Christ and Christ denying him. This would be an indication of Paul’s stance on eternal security.

 

[His student]

I did, and Jesus pointed me to a trustworthy preacher of our time named Zac Poonen. He said the most diabolical doctrine in the world that sends more christians to hell is the OSAS doctrine. I happily agreed.

"....... I am of Paul; and I of Apollos......." and now its come to "I am of Zac".

 

[His student]

Jesus also said we must abide in Him and endure to the end to receive salvation friend.

And where did He say that friend?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not all of them.

Are you suggesting that some of the churches that were established by the apostles taught eternal security?

 

[BNR32FAN]

And where did He say that friend?

Well I was paraphrasing. He said we must abide in John 15:6 and He said we must endure in Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, Matthew 10:22.

 

[Hammster]

Don’t get me wrong the reformation was a good idea given the situation with the Roman Catholic Church at that time. Unfortunately they just didn’t get their doctrines correct. I often wonder if perhaps they may have been blinded by their obsession with refuting Roman Catholic doctrines & traditions so much that they refuted even the true teachings of the apostles. The Roman Church had a lot of false teachings but not everything they taught was incorrect.

I just go by what scripture teaches. I used to be Arminian until I was told to read scripture in context. That changed everything. That’s why you can’t start with John 15 and get an accurate theology.

 

[royal priest]

He also said this

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ 2:12 NASB

Notice how Paul includes even himself as being capable of denying Christ and Christ denying him. This would be an indication of Paul’s stance on eternal security.

Yes. Jesus delivers His people from their sin by giving them the strength to persevere. Paul endured to the end because He was enables to do all things through Christ.

 

[Hammster]

Are you suggesting that some of the churches that were established by the apostles taught eternal security?

All of them did initially.