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Can you find the Church?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Fidelibus, May 28, 2021.

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  1. Fidelibus

    Fidelibus Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about the "true Church,"........ i.e., the one started by Christ and founded upon the Apostles.

    Jesus did say he was going to build his Church, didn’t he....... (Matt. 16:18)?

    Isn’t “the church” spoken of often in Scripture ( Eph.3:10, 5:21–32; Col.1:24; 1 Tim 2: 15)?

    Your thoughts?

    Have a Blessed day
     
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  2. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    The “true church” consists of the true believers in Yeshua which I believe is the remnant.
     
  3. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    The Church Universal consists of many members who are in different places in their walk with God. We can see this variation reflected in the letters to the seven churches of the book of Revelation. Ultimately it is up to God to decide who will be saved and who will not.
     
  4. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    As far as making claim to being the original church started by the apostles the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Catholic Church both make claim to that status.

    But as far as finding the pure church as Yeshua originally built it that is not possible and honestly even the early church was not perfect and pure.

    So to answer your question the perfect and pure church does not exist but the church that exists today is an outgrowth of the movement started by Yeshua and his apostles. But since the conditions of the early church were only for that period of history and time we will never have those exact same experiences again.
     
  5. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    You’ve got to understand that human beings are sinful and fallen and flawed so when you say “true church” what do you mean by that? If you are asking about a group of perfect people who have flawless theology that does not exist.
     
  6. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    A perfect example of this flawed church is Peter’s denial of Yeshua. Also by examining the epistles of the apostle Paul we can easily see that there were many problems in the early church.

    Parable of the Ten Virgins - Wikipedia

    Learn a lesson from this parable and understand that to purify yourself by the power of the Holy Ghost is what you should seek. Yes seeking likeminded believers to fellowship with is a good and noble endeavor but your personal relationship with God and love for him is what matters most.

    So if you are seeking a group of perfect people like I said that doesn’t exist but from my experience yes there are definitely some churches that are more pure than others.
     
  7. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    Personally I am Messianic and I follow my own path by seeking the truth. But I find that the scriptures teach that the remnant are those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith in Jesus.

    Revelation 12:17
    And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Revelation 14:12
    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    But there are a lot of great churches and if you want I could possibly recommend some in your area. Just ask.
     
  8. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    The true remnant you’ve got to understand is spread out all over the planet and cannot be found in one localized church or congregation.

    Can you find a good church yes. Can you find the “true church” in one place? No.
     
  9. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    A Holy Remnant (David Wilkerson)

     
  10. The Narrow Way

    The Narrow Way Master Herbalist Supporter

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    This is my favorite definition of THE TRUE CHURCH ~
    God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. Upward Look, pg. 315.5
    Little Church in the Woods.jpg
     
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  11. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are told through scripture there is only a remnant left of God's true church at the end, which I think is near. These are the characteristics of God's true church.

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Ezekiel 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

    God's commandments have been trampled on by man which includes the 4th commandment, God's holy Sabbath day which was replaced not by Biblical authority but by man (the Catholic church).

     
  12. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The word remnant (as described in Revelation 12:17; post #11 above) is key to understanding the identity of "the true church". The remnant is not a part of a larger cloth, but separate from it. The remnant keeps the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus. Thus, it is not a denomination, but people who hold to the truths found in scripture and rest on its solid foundation.

    The concept of a "true church" as a denomination that all others should recognize as the "source" and the only means of salvation, is not scriptural. It is a worldly view, not a heavenly one.

    Jesus said something in Matthew 7 that should give pause.

    Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    If the way is narrow, how can a world-wide denomination be called the true church? It doesn't match the description of a remnant whatsoever. Therefore, the only conclusion that can be made is that any world church professing to be the true church is not. Any broad way is not the way to life.

    In these end times, few are keeping the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  13. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You made some excellent points and to tag on your post, we are told Satan deceives the whole world

    Revelation 12:9
    So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    What is the most common day of worship? It's not the day God commanded us to keep holy Exodus 20:8-11.

    This was even predicted in the bible:

    Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law.

    The Sabbath is the only commandment that is both a law (4th commandment) and time (every seventh day).
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  14. Freth

    Freth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Addendum:

    The exercising of authority (as a true church, for instance) is a warning sign.

    Any church that seeks to exercise its authority over people is in direct opposition to God. We see this very thing come to a head at the end, when the beast that rises out of the earth exercises all of the authority of the beast that rises out of the sea to enforce false worship. This ultimately leads to persecution and a death decree.

    Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.​
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  15. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    Those are worthwhile questions, Fidelibus, considering how often we deal here with people saying, in one way or another, "My church is the real one!"

    And the answer? There is no doubt that Christ started a church and, according to the New Testament, it is organized into congregations, engages in certain ceremonies as commissioned by Christ himself, and has certain categories of officers or leaders.

    Is any particular one of today's denominations/communions the particular embodiment of the original church to the exclusion of other ones? NO, none can claim that on the basis either 1) a sameness of belief and practice as compared with the first Christians or 2) a continuity through time. Still, many do claim to be the one and only.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  16. Fidelibus

    Fidelibus Well-Known Member

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    So what I am understanding by your posts, you are not denying the existence of the Church, but over just what the Church is, right?

    Have a Blessed Day!
     
  17. Love First

    Love First Houston We Have A Problem

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    No, I’m not denying the existence of the church that would be ridiculous. I said a lot of different things in my posts. I am saying that the first century church was never perfect and that the church as it exists today will never be exactly like the first century church. I suggest that you study the parable of the Tares because it gives a perfect metaphor for what is happening in the church. Take Care Friend!

    Parable of the Tares - Wikipedia
     
  18. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    Of interest is that in the whole of what Jesus taught, the only reference I can find on how His church is to be run consists of a few humble instructions.: Don't lord it over one another, but feed and encourage each other in what He already commanded us. Jesus started an interesting project in birthing His church on Pentecost where 3000 people were baptized prior to intensive indoctrination.
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    But we do have plenty of information along those lines in the New Testament.

    We either believe this part of the Bible to be inspired, the word of God revealed, or we do not. If we do not, then which denomination is the true church, if any, is a secondary issue, almost incidental.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Look for one that has the same doctrines as you find the NT church having when you actually read the NT.

    =========================

    And how nice it is to see we can all agree that in Mark 7:6-13 Jesus was speaking directly to the magisterium of the One True Nation Church - started by God at Sinai.

    So whatever differences we may have today and who really is teaching the same doctrine as in the first century -- on thing is for sure - Christ addressed the very real problem of flawed tradition in the One True Nation Church started by God at Sinai - in Mark 7.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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