Can you fall from being saved?

[TreeOfLife]

I disagree 100%.

If people actually knew how much God loves us and has forgiven us, they would all stop accusing each other, they'd repent, they' cry, they'd be broken, they'd love Jesus with all their hearts.

Yes, faith without works is dead, but works without love is worse than death. Doing good works because you're afraid of God is a horrible way to live. I know this by experience. Furthermore, to wave one's pointing fingers at others in the name of Jesus is nothing but blasphemy. It's like saying, "I believe Jesus died for all my sins and faults, therefore I have reason to judge you."

I agree Holo. If we constantly look at people, man are we ever in for a disappointment. But if we can somehow keep our eyes on Jesus, more and more realizing our abject unworthiness to receive such an awesome gift. Then we learn Love.

Even once we come to understand, it can still be hard to walk in sometimes.

 

[Godzchild]

Joyinhim! Why are you lecturing us?

Why are YOU telling US what we should or should not do? You have know idea what we do. NONE!! I have sadness for the world today, but for people like you I have more, I hold grave fears for those who follow along your footsteps. And many here have spoken up against you...doesn't that tell you something?

It seems you are too busy judging others and not enough time loving. I don't see any love whatsoever in your posts. None at all! In fact all I see is self-righteous judgement. And this really saddens me. I'm sad for those you influence and most of all, I'm sad for you becaue you seem to be all bound up and tight. You seem rigid and unmaluable. And Christ cannot work with those who are unable to be moulded. I may have you all wrong, and I hope I do. I really hope I do. I'm merely telling you what I see. You username 'joyinhim' does not become you! I don't see it, I'm sorry

I wish I can grab you and give you a big old and hug and make you a coffee. I wish to sit with you and tell you my life story. I wish to make you feel and see what I have felt and seen in my lifetime. And then I wish that I could make you feel what I do now. The peace that passes understanding. The love and security I feel in Christ now. How he is my everything and how I live and breath him. How I long to know him better and better.

I have not always been this way. I was once just like you. Ready to point the finger and expose others as frauds at all cost! This is what I was taught to do! And it was to my own destriment. I wish I knew then what I know now. But then again...If I hadn't gone through what i had then, would I even be the person I am now? Probably not!

Let me just say this. A husband who beats and threatens his wife into submission never really gets pure love and obedience from her. Rather he gets obedience and submission born out of fear and resentment. The God that I know, is the kind of husband that loves someone to love them. And in doing so we then love him enough that we WANT to do things for him and serve him...not out of fear of Him or fear of hell. But out of pure love...love that he has bestowed upon us. Love that we have received from him FIRST.

We can all learn a lesson from the wife beater and child abuser of today. We can learn a lesson on what God is NOT. And how much love he actually has for us. God is love!

Jesus came not to condemn the world but to save it. We should all take a leaf from his book and do the same thing. Right now, this is not what I'm seeing from you. As I said, I could be wrong, and I hope I am. But this is what I see.

Prove me wrong! I challenge you to prove me wrong. I would love nothing more but to be wrong about you!

 

[Godzchild]

Actually I have something else to see. This is really pressing on my spirit to share this because I believe it imortant.

I have 4 young children. Each of them is unique. Each of them have talents. Each of them have weaknesses. But I would not be a good parent if I continually focused on their weaknesses. In fact, if I was to point the finger at everything my children do and not give them any praise or encouragement for the things they DO do right then I will actually quench their spirit. Not only that but they would not have the motivation to do better.

So I ask you...how does it feel when someone is continually saying to you. "Mate, I'm not seeing any good in you...you're doing this or that and this and these things are bad..you should be doing this or that and you're not". Doesn't feel good huh? What about if they were to say "Wow mate, you're doing great! I like how you did this or that. I love seeing you do this. Keep up the good work!" Really makes you wanna keep doing the good work - doesn't it?

So as much as I love my children and as much as I would never EVER disown my children (because they were born my children). The chastising I do NEVER undermines or overides the praise. And if it does, I notice a change in their behaviour...they feel discouraged and when they feel this way, they don't perform as well. But when I have the right balance...they blossom and grow into the confident individuals I desire them to be.

Something to think about anyway

 

[Llauralin]

If you love Him you would feel terrible how people are misrepresenting Him. If you feel bad then you also speak up for Him. If you can not see hypocricy in this country there is something very wrong with your faith. Isn't that because you are not serving Him with all your heart, soul and strengh and mind? Jesus is not cheap. He died for Us. He tells us "If you can not give up everthing you have, you can not be my disciple" Do you know that? He never says He just wants to hear your sweet talk.

*Frowns* I know that you probably don't need another person here talking like this, so please forgive me, but...



Normally I'm the first person to complain about how people don't live up to their own standards, or take God seriously enough, but I really don't hink that we are called to wallow in the Church's failings so much that we forget how loveable people are, or how glorious creation is, or how forgiving our God is. I don't see what you see; perhaps it's because I know different people, or because you're part of a lousy, hypacritical church or something, but I just really don't understand what you've been saying for the last couple of pages...

Alright, humanity is a vast calamity; we're ungreatful, wretched, hypocrits.

But then again, sometimes people are also SO loveable, and charming, and usually Christians are trying their best, and trying to love God, and excited, and...wonderful! Don't you ever feel like that??? Aren't you ever with people, and suddenly Get an overwhelming feeling of how dear everyone is, and how awsome it is that we are all bound together in the loveing embrace of God? Or that the world is a vast fairytale, where things are dangerous, and times are uncertain, and people lose heart and fail, but everything is exciting and joyous and special just the same?

 

[aggie03]

Actually I have something else to see. This is really pressing on my spirit to share this because I believe it imortant.

I have 4 young children. Each of them is unique. Each of them have talents. Each of them have weaknesses. But I would not be a good parent if I continually focused on their weaknesses. In fact, if I was to point the finger at everything my children do and not give them any praise or encouragement for the things they DO do right then I will actually quench their spirit. Not only that but they would not have the motivation to do better.

So I ask you...how does it feel when someone is continually saying to you. "Mate, I'm not seeing any good in you...you're doing this or that and this and these things are bad..you should be doing this or that and you're not". Doesn't feel good huh? What about if they were to say "Wow mate, you're doing great! I like how you did this or that. I love seeing you do this. Keep up the good work!" Really makes you wanna keep doing the good work - doesn't it?

So as much as I love my children and as much as I would never EVER disown my children (because they were born my children). The chastising I do NEVER undermines or overides the praise. And if it does, I notice a change in their behaviour...they feel discouraged and when they feel this way, they don't perform as well. But when I have the right balance...they blossom and grow into the confident individuals I desire them to be.

Something to think about anyway

Well, falling from grace isn't as simple really as "oops, you've messed up once, now you're not saved any more." That's not what I think it is at all...otherwise I know at least one person on this thread who goes by "aggie03" that wouldn't be saved.

Falling from grace isn't even God disowning anyone - because I do believe that the Scriptures say that God will never "kicj anyone out". They do say, however, that people can leave. God will not "lock the doors" and keep someone from leaving His house.

On another note, what was the post number for our "reference" post?

 

[TreeOfLife]

Praying for a miracle.

 

[joyinhim]

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Praying for a miracle.

where two or more are gathered...

praying with you.

 

[deu58]

Hello Joyinhim

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


1jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[joyinhim]

The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his Word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

 

[deu58]

Hello Joyinhim

The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his Word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Jesus walked as Jew in the Law of Moses, Are you doing that? In fact, You can not walk as Jesus did because you are woman, The verses where Paul says a woman should not teach and needs to remain silent in the church, Do you know where they come from???

Lu 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Lu 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.


They come from the example of Christs Ministry on earth,

The women who walked with Christ were not considered disciples, They did not teach, They were not sent out to preach, There duty was to minister to to Jesus and the men he sent out, They were permited to share their faith,

But they were not Evangelists, Teachers or pastors,

Your in Christ
deu 56

 

[joyinhim]

Do not love the world(secular) or anything in the world(secular). If anyone loves the world(secular), the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the carvings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world.
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

 

[holo]

joyinhim,
who are you addressing with these qoutes?

 

[joyinhim]

joyinhim,
who are you addressing with these qoutes?

holo

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he apperared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

 

[deu58]

holo

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he apperared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, You are not saved by your own righteousness in or out of Christ, It is always Christ and never you, You can not attain the perfection God demands,

You think because you shout from the roof tops every body elses shortcomings this makes you perfect in the eyes of God???

Perhaps you missed the verse where Jesus said, You hypocrits, Remove the beam from your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from your brothers eye,

 

[holo]

I was about to try to reconcile our views, but I no longer believe we are preaching the same gospel at all.

And to be honest, it's a relief to realize that. It places us on different sides of the fence, so to speak, and neither of us can judge the other as a weak or false believer, because we simply do not believe the same stuff.

joyinhim,
I suggest we treat each other with respect as members of differing religions. I have, for partly other reasons than you, stopped calling myself a christian a long time ago. I suggest, in all honesty and loving kindness, that you do the same. Not because I feel like you misrepresent christianity, but it would take a load off your back to stop considering yourself a true light in the middle of lukewarm christians, and rather go all the way and consider them heretics and haters of truth, as I know you already do some of us.

And please, respond to this with your own words.

 

[joyinhim]

holo, I believe the Bible is God's word.

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saint. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly skipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of your God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I've come to the conclusion as well that we do not share the same beliefs (Mrs. Wilde and me) and that grieves me. I came out of teachings where only one side of the gospel was given. Mrs. Wilde is doing the same thing but giving only the other side which is equally as wrong. In fact, I don't even picture it as a spectrum with her on the extreme end and my old teachings on the other. I think of it as a circle and she is dangerously close to where those teachings are. How blessed I have been to find a church and believers who believe and practice a balanced view of the Scriptures. She reminds me of one of those scruffy people wearing the long-flowing robes, condemning everyone to hell on the street corner and holding a sign reminding us of the coming of Jesus. She's twisting the Word of God to profit herself

Very sad, very deceived and I know that people who have gotten to that point have been incredibly hurt by the world and need somebody to truly demonstrate Christ's love in their life.

 

[joyinhim]

But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of your Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own undodly desires." These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spritit.

 

[Llauralin]

holo

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he apperared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

So you believe you don't sin?

Or that no person at all really loves God?