Can you fall from being saved?

[holo]

I don't know what it would take to snatch me out of the hands of Jesus, but I do know sin can never do it. Perhaps I can make the decision to knowingly deny him, but my falls and shortcomings can never take me away from under his blood.

 

[Lynn73]

It is not a doctrine of insecurity! It's about staying united with Christ! How can you even try to think that there is any salvation outside Christ? Yet this is what you're saying when you teach people don't need to stay in Christ to get to heaven.

Yes, I know that if I die this very second that I will go to heaven, because I have the Son, and he who has the Son, has life.



It doesn't matter if people think it's a fair game. Many people think it's much more comfortable to think that there is no literal hell as well, that people just get annihilated when they die if not saved. That something is comfortable doesn't mean it's right.

Yes it is a doctrine of insecurity. It's based on our works and ability to stay saved. So how do you know you've been good enough to remain in Christ? The Bible says salvation is a gift, not because of any works. So if goods works can't save then bad works or no works cannot remove God's gift. Christ keeps us in Himself, we cannot keep ourselves since we couldn't even save ourselves. Rewards are earned, salvation is a free gift with no strings attached. But what we do with that salvation determines what it'll be like for us in heaven. For some it will be better than others. We can gain and lose reward, NOT salvtation. Otherwise don't call it a gift, call it something God owes us for service rendered.

This man didn't lose his salvation, yet he was sleeping with his father's wife:

1 Corinthians 5:1-5

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

However, as you can see, the Lord's discipline was severe. Yet the man's spirit was was going to be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Continual sin brings discipline from the Father, but we're still His children. Is your child no longer you rchild when they do wrong? Or do you discipline them that they might do right. God disciplined this man to the highest degree. He took his physical life and took him on to heaven.

And, no, I'm not advocating doing whatever you want because we're safe. Should we sin more that grace may abound? God forbid! But I believe God answered the question for me a long time ago and salvation is forever. God knows those who are truly His and we won't get away with our wrong living, we will be disciplined, either here or in heaven as we see all our works burned to ashes and we have no crowns to lay at Jesus' feet. This is what I fear, not having at least one crown to lay at His precious feet.

 

[holo]

If my salvation doesn't hang on Jesus and Jesus alone, I have no hope.

 

[Godzchild]

If my salvation doesn't hang on Jesus and Jesus alone, I have no hope

I agree 100%

If Jesus isn't enough then we're all doomed

 

[Godzchild]

Sorry but Jesus himself said - that NO MAN can pluck you out of your father's hand. Did he lie?

What about when he says "I NEVER knew you"? He didn't say he knew them once and now he doesn't know them anymore - he said he NEVER knew them. He also says he calls his sheep and his sheep hear his voice and FOLLOW HIM. It sounds to me like, if you are his sheep then you will follow...if not then you were NEVER his sheep.

Those who fall away are not God's children and NEVER WERE. If they were then they would have been kept by the power of God and would not have fallen. If they fall then it is manifested that they were NEVER one of them.

No one can lose eternal life - eternal life is eternal life that's why it's eternal.

If you add anything other than the gospel of Jesus Christ (good works to get to heaven) then you are not saved - that's what the bible says. You either believe it or you don't. You're either saved or you're not. You have eternal life or you don't. There is no 'saved one minute not the next' salvation. If you have been set free then YOU ARE FREE INDEED - Jesus doesn't leave room for argument!

"Now unto him who is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before the presence of his Glory in exceeding joy". <---IF you are his sheep then he will keep you and your place is preserved for you in heaven PERIOD!

 

[ronmathison]

Salvation is beautiful, and forever. It's entirely based on faith in Christ alone. Please consider Who paid the price, and what price He paid. That message will save many non-Christians. Confusing it, and turning it into a false-message, will cause many to reject it.

We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, forever.

 

[SoulFly51]

Sorry but Jesus himself said - that NO MAN can pluck you out of your father's hand. Did he lie?

No He didn't lie. He told the truth.

But just because no man can pluck you out of the Father's hand doesn't mean you can't get up by yourself and jump out of it by your own will.

God would never abandon His children, but that doesn't stop some of His children from abandoning Him.

 

[Godzchild]

But just because no man can pluck you out of the Father's hand doesn't mean you can't get up by yourself and jump out of it by your own will.

WRONG!!! I am a man (mankind) and it says that NO MAN can pluck you them out of his father's hand - that means me as well since I'm part of man kind.



"I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER!!!!!!! perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (Jn. 10 v 28 )



"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Pet. 1:5)

I am kept by the power of God

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philip. 1:6)

God has begun a good work in me and he will keep it going until Jesus returns.

Who are we to argue with God? Isn't eternal life eternal?

 

[joyinhim]

Let's take this situation for an example...

Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.

He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.

So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?

"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."

What will happen?

I believe if we keep focussing in Him We never have to worry about it. We should strive to please Him by fulfilling our responsibilities as Christians. He gave us a lot of responsibilities. By the way, He helps us to do a good job if we ask Him.

 

[holo]

By the way, He helps us to do a good job if we ask Him.

This is where I think it all goes wrong. IMO he doesn't help us, he has already done everything that needs to be done. He doesn't help us become righteous, for example, he IS (our) righteousness.

 

[joyinhim]

This is where I think it all goes wrong. IMO he doesn't help us, he has already done everything that needs to be done. He doesn't help us become righteous, for example, he IS (our) righteousness.

Well, we are all entitled to our own opinion and practice.

 

[lismore]

Sorry but Jesus himself said - that NO MAN can pluck you out of your father's hand. Did he lie?

What about when he says "I NEVER knew you"? He didn't say he knew them once and now he doesn't know them anymore - he said he NEVER knew them. He also says he calls his sheep and his sheep hear his voice and FOLLOW HIM. It sounds to me like, if you are his sheep then you will follow...if not then you were NEVER his sheep.

Those who fall away are not God's children and NEVER WERE. If they were then they would have been kept by the power of God and would not have fallen. If they fall then it is manifested that they were NEVER one of them.

No one can lose eternal life - eternal life is eternal life that's why it's eternal.

If you add anything other than the gospel of Jesus Christ (good works to get to heaven) then you are not saved - that's what the bible says. You either believe it or you don't. You're either saved or you're not. You have eternal life or you don't. There is no 'saved one minute not the next' salvation. If you have been set free then YOU ARE FREE INDEED - Jesus doesn't leave room for argument!

"Now unto him who is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before the presence of his Glory in exceeding joy". <---IF you are his sheep then he will keep you and your place is preserved for you in heaven PERIOD!

 

[Jim Woodell]

[

QUOTE=Godzchild]Sorry but Jesus himself said - that NO MAN can pluck you out of your father's hand. Did he lie?

See Matt. 24:12. Although no man can pluck us from God's hand, that does not mean that we cannot choose to leave His hand of our own accord.

What about when he says "I NEVER knew you"? He didn't say he knew them once and now he doesn't know them anymore - he said he NEVER knew them. He also says he calls his sheep and his sheep hear his voice and FOLLOW HIM. It sounds to me like, if you are his sheep then you will follow...if not then you were NEVER his sheep.

Certainly it is possible that some think they are saved but are not in the family of God. (Matt. 7:21-23) The question is though, can a person be saved and then be lost? The Bible teaches that this can happen. (Heb. 6:4-6;10:26-31).

What do you do with the "lost sheep?" (Luke 15:3-7) It was a sheep that was "in the fold," but "left the fold, was lost and then found."

Those who fall away are not God's children and NEVER WERE. If they were then they would have been kept by the power of God and would not have fallen. If they fall then it is manifested that they were NEVER one of them.

This is a dangerous doctrine and not in harmony with what the Bible teaches. A young lady, whose dad is a preacher of this persuasion, didn't have on enough clothes to "wad a shotgun", smoking a Va. slim and with a illegitimate child on her lap proclaimed, "I know I am saved because I accepted Christ when I was 12 years old and once saved, always saved!" This is the fruit of that doctrine.

No one can lose eternal life - eternal life is eternal life that's why it's eternal.

Once you die you go into eternity. This life is temporal. "It is appointed unto man once to die..." (Heb. 9:27) Read Matt. 24:42-51. Why the urgency to "be ready?"

If you add anything other than the gospel of Jesus Christ (good works to get to heaven) then you are not saved - that's what the bible says. You either believe it or you don't. You're either saved or you're not. You have eternal life or you don't. There is no 'saved one minute not the next' salvation. If you have been set free then YOU ARE FREE INDEED - Jesus doesn't leave room for argument!

You work out of your salvation, not into it. The point is that you can be "drawn away of your own lust (even as a Christian), and enticed (to sin). Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, give birth to death." (James 1:13-15) Also check out James 5:19-20. This is addressed to "brothers."

"Now unto him who is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before the presence of his Glory in exceeding joy". <---IF you are his sheep then he will keep you and your place is preserved for you in heaven PERIOD![/ QUOTE]

Jude vs. 24 is a beautiful and meaningful verse. It is similar to 1 Cor. 10:13 that promises, "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And GOD IS FAITHFUL; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, HE WILL ALSO PROVIDE A WAY OUT so that YOU can stand up under it." Please read these verses in their immediate context. For instance, please read 1 Cor. 10:1-12. What is the warning here? Read the rest of Jude, before vs. 24. What is the warning of this book?

Jude 3 "I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith...(4) For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you...(6) And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home (they did not cease to be angels, but they became "fallen" angels)...(7)In a similar way...gave themselves up to sexual immorality (their choice)...

I urge you to read the book of Jude in its entirety. The call is to hang in there! Be faithful to the end. Don't cease to run the race on God's terms!

God is able to keep us from falling and He will provide a way of escape from every temptation, but we must choose to let Him. God will let us walk away, even His disciples, if we want to (John 6:66-69).

God bless!

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

This thread has really had me thinking about the subject. I know the Bible is clear there are many who believe they are saved but are, in truth, unsaved. Those ones are easily plucked away. For those who truly love the Lord with all their hearts, I cannot imagine them plucked away but I've been really studying the NT for a couple years now and it is tough to give a definitive answer. We all need to be wary and, perhaps we need to be wary that ours may not be true faith. We need need to study the Word faithfully and not be deceived and I know, especially here in America, deception is rampant.

 

[Godzchild]

See Matt. 24:12. Although no man can pluck us from God's hand, that does not mean that we cannot choose to leave His hand of our own accord.

Yes it does!! I am a man (well actually I'm a woman but you know what I mean ) and it says that NO MAN can pluck them out of my father's hand. Therefore I take it as meaning myself as well - since I am a man! I cannot pluck myself out because it says that no man can.

Certainly it is possible that some think they are saved but are not in the family of God. (Matt. 7:21-23) The question is though, can a person be saved and then be lost? The Bible teaches that this can happen. (Heb. 6:4-6;10:26-31).

Well think about this...can a person be 'unborn' again? Can a person be 'unspirit' filled? And what about the power of God keeping us from falling? The answer is no! A true Christian cannot be lost because the Spirit will always bring them back ALWAYS. Jesus will leave the other sheep and go out and look for the one who is wandering off and he will find them and bring them back. The question is...are you his sheep? If so then he has called you and known you from before the foundations of the world...if not then he NEVER knew you!

What do you do with the "lost sheep?" (Luke 15:3-7) It was a sheep that was "in the fold," but "left the fold, was lost and then found."

You just answered your own question. THEY ARE FOUND! Or don't you think Christ is capable of finding those who are lost. His sheep hear his voice and follow him. He calls them and they follow. If they don't hear him and don't follow then they're not his sheep.

This is a dangerous doctrine and not in harmony with what the Bible teaches. A young lady, whose dad is a preacher of this persuasion, didn't have on enough clothes to "wad a shotgun", smoking a Va. slim and with a illegitimate child on her lap proclaimed, "I know I am saved because I accepted Christ when I was 12 years old and once saved, always saved!" This is the fruit of that doctrine.

The doctrine that I believe in is that of the bible. The bible says that I am kept by the power of God...

1 Pet 1:4-5
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
(NKJ)


So what you are saying is that the above scripture is dangerous?

Once you die you go into eternity. This life is temporal. "It is appointed unto man once to die..." (Heb. 9:27) Read Matt. 24:42-51. Why the urgency to "be ready?"

Huh? Because Jesus can return at any moment and we must be born of God or we will not rise again with him. But that's now what we're arguing! What we are arguing is if we can be 'unborn' once we are born again? Can we? Can we lose eternal life? If so...why is it called 'eternal life' if it's not really eternal and it's governed by the actions of our flesh?

You work out of your salvation, not into it.

Sorry you are wrong! You cannot salve yourself...anymore than you can unsave yourself - you do not have that power! Christ is the saviour not us!

The point is that you can be "drawn away of your own lust (even as a Christian), and enticed (to sin). Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, give birth to death." (James 1:13-15) Also check out James 5:19-20. This is addressed to "brothers."

We ALLLLLLLLLLL sin!!!!!!!! HELLO!!!! Those who say they don't do not have the spirit of Christ in them. We can be drawn away but we are brought back! Jesus comes and he brings us back via the Holy Spirit. The spirit guides our paths and brings us to rememberance and repentence! No one said that Christians can't walk away...but what I'm saying is that they can be brought back! I am living proof of this!!!! Why don't you ask me my testimony huh?

Jude vs. 24 is a beautiful and meaningful verse. It is similar to 1 Cor. 10:13 that promises, "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And GOD IS FAITHFUL; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, HE WILL ALSO PROVIDE A WAY OUT so that YOU can stand up under it." Please read these verses in their immediate context. For instance, please read 1 Cor. 10:1-12. What is the warning here? Read the rest of Jude, before vs. 24. What is the warning of this book?

The warning are for those who are not saved. Are you saying that the things written before v 24 overide v 24? No they don't. God keeps us and preserves us.

Jude 3 "I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith...(4) For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you...(6) And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home (they did not cease to be angels, but they became "fallen" angels)...(7)In a similar way...gave themselves up to sexual immorality (their choice)...

I urge you to read the book of Jude in its entirety. The call is to hang in there! Be faithful to the end. Don't cease to run the race on God's terms!

Why are we to hang in there though? The message I got from that book is to don't give up because there is a reward. But I also got the message the God will keep us from falling! NOthing there about losing one's salvation because salvation is eternal. What you are trying to do is change the definition of 'eternal' to mean 'not eternal'. Can't be done!

God is able to keep us from falling and He will provide a way of escape from every temptation, but we must choose to let Him. God will let us walk away, even His disciples, if we want to (John 6:66-69).

And the Holy Spirit will guide us back!!! I've fallen! Did you know that? I have fallen from Grace pretty majorly but guess what??? Jesus did not let go of me...no sireeeee! Why? Because I am his child! I am saved! And he did not allow me to fall so far as to not be able to come back. He provided a way out and the Holy Spirit guided me back! NONE of it was my own doing because I didn't know what I needed...I was like an injured wild animal lashing out at anyone who tried to help me and I did so because I was hurt and in pain! I needed help and Jesus NEVER let me go! He NEVER left me there to die. Even when it seemed I hated him...he knew better!!! He knew me! I am his sheep and he knows me by name! And no way was he going to allow Satan to pluck me out of his hand! It is all predestined!!!!

What better person to talk about God's grace and eternal salvation than one who has tested it and had to rely on his grace and mercy! The bible only confirms what Christ has done for me. I walked away!!!! But he brought me back!

So argue all you like! My life tells a different story to what you are preaching!

 

[aggie03]

In the parable of the prodigcal son, doesn't the Father say that his son was dead, but now is alive? Someone can't be "unborn" but surely they can die.

 

[Godzchild]

In the parable of the prodigcal son, doesn't the Father say that his son was dead, but now is alive? Someone can't be "unborn" but surely they can die.

The prodical didn't die, the father thought he was dead. My parents thought i was dead (in sin) too until I came back. You know that Jesus can raise the dead don't you?

 

[flyingsum0]

For almost two years I was dead to the spirtual part of my life...I shunned anything to do with it and pretty much decended into a life of depression, anger, hatred and lies...to the point that I could barely remeber my name and who I was through all the lies...

Now step by step, I'm coming back! I removing the sin from my life piece by piece and I can't tell you how good I feel about it! Jesus does not forget our names and who we are, this I can testify to, because now that I pray to His name I can finally once again remeber mine...

God Bless you All!

 

[Godzchild]

For almost two years I was dead to the spirtual part of my life...I shunned anything to do with it and pretty much decended into a life of depression, anger, hatred and lies...to the point that I could barely remeber my name and who I was through all the lies...

Now step by step, I'm coming back! I removing the sin from my life piece by piece and I can't tell you how good I feel about it! Jesus does not forget our names and who we are, this I can testify to, because now that I pray to His name I can finally once again remeber mine...

Thank you!!!!! Yes!

How can people understand the power of God's ability to keep you and bring you back from the brink of despair if they haven't had to rely on him before? How can anyone understand God's grace and mercy and his rod of correction to bring us back to the straight and narrow...if they've never had to rely on it? I am a Child of God and my Daddy chastises me when I make a mistake - he corrects me, and if I run away he runs after me and brings me back to where I belong.

And as a parent I do that to my children too. I never say to my 2 year old..."Well that's it...you walked away...so you're not my child now" NEVER!!!! No I call out to her and run after her and seek her out - because I'm a her parent. How much more would God do for his children?

 

[joyinhim]

For almost two years I was dead to the spirtual part of my life...I shunned anything to do with it and pretty much decended into a life of depression, anger, hatred and lies...to the point that I could barely remeber my name and who I was through all the lies...

Now step by step, I'm coming back! I removing the sin from my life piece by piece and I can't tell you how good I feel about it! Jesus does not forget our names and who we are, this I can testify to, because now that I pray to His name I can finally once again remeber mine...

God Bless you All!

God bless you! Of course He never forgets anyone. We are the one who forget about Him. As long as we remember to go back to Him, He always welcomes us, no matter how long you have been away or what you did. We just have to turn arround from all sinful way of life and mentality.