Can you be sinless??!

[kaitlyn7645]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

 

[mukk_in]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

Yes Kaitlyn, if you're led by the Holy Spirit. God bless child .

 

[Grace2022]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

No! We will always Sun.That's why we need to daily, hourly ask for help. Through Jesus we are forgiven. No condemnation. How lucky are we! X

 

[Soyeong]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

Anyone who says that they are without sin is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8). According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful, so we are being trained to sin less, but we won't become sinless until he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6).

 

[joshua 1 9]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

The teaching of sinless perfection comes from John Wesley and was a product of the holiness movement. Wesley would ask in what way are we not able to be perfect. What sin and what transgressions are we not able to overcome? In what way is God's Grace not sufficient for us?

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2cor12:8

1 Corinthians 2:5
so that your faith would not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Anyone who says that they are without sin is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8). According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful, so we are being trained to sin less, but we won't become sinless until he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6).

1John1:7 "the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

 

[Catherineanne]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

No, it is not a doctrine, it is a heresy.

Pelagianism, to be exact.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Pelagius and Pelagianism

 

[messager777]

First, we need to define sin or sinning.

There is sinning-in-thoughts which is often involuntary or inborn(eg immoral lust, hate, greed, jealousy, fears, doubts, etc), and there is sinning-in-deeds which is voluntary(eg the sins/evil-deeds of blasphemy, idolatry, murder, adultery, rape, stealing, lying/cheating, etc).

ROMANS.5:12 says that the fact that all humans are born with Adam's Original Sin necessitates the need for them to be saved from hell by Jesus Christ. This means all humans are born with evil/satanic/sinful hearts and minds and will be sent to hell when they die. It is not just their sins-in-deeds that will be sending them to hell, ie keeping Moses Law does not save.
....... Adam's Original Sin resulted in all humans often sinning-in-thoughts involuntarily.(JOHN.8:44 , MATT.16:23 & 23:27, MARK.7:21 , 1JOHN.3:8)

While humans are on earth, God or His agents, eg the police/government, will only curse/punish them for their sins-in-deeds, ie not for their sins-in-thoughts. So, we may sin-in-thoughts but we should never sin-in-deeds. The consequences of Adam's Original Sin or our sins-in-thoughts, ie hell, only come into effect or fruition after we die. Only those who believe/trust in Jesus Christ will be saved from hell when they die.

 

[com7fy8]

Can you make yourself sinless? No. It is possible with God.

But > Hebrews 12:4-11 to me shows that every child of God is still getting correction.

But someone might define sinning as things that person is not doing. Then he or she can suppose he or she is not sinning. But what about Philippians 2:13-16? Is the person doing every single thing . . . and every married thing . . . "without complaining and disputing"?

Complaining and arguing, then, are sinning. And if we grow and get real correction so we are stopping our complaining and arguing, this can mean we are becoming real in the nature of God's own love and how He has us relating. Because complaining and arguing are anti-love, not only sins of practice.

And as we grow in God's love, we discover more and more what sins can be, which at first we did not know. So, stopping only what we know now would not be enough. Actively seek our Heavenly Father's correction so we discover how He has us becoming in His love.

 

[Catherineanne]

First, we need to define sin or sinning.

There is sinning-in-thoughts which is often involuntary or inborn(eg immoral lust, hate, greed, jealousy, fears, doubts, etc), and there is sinning-in-deeds which is voluntary(eg the sins/evil-deeds of blasphemy, idolatry, murder, adultery, rape, stealing, lying/cheating, etc).

ROMANS.5:12 says that the fact that all humans are born with Adam's Original Sin necessitates the need for them to be saved from hell by Jesus Christ. This means all humans are born with evil/satanic/sinful hearts and minds and will be sent to hell when they die. It is not just their sins-in-deeds that will be sending them to hell, ie keeping Moses Law does not save.
....... Adam's Original Sin resulted in all humans often sinning-in-thoughts involuntarily.(JOHN.8:44 , MATT.16:23 & 23:27, MARK.7:21 , 1JOHN.3:8)

While humans are on earth, God or His agents, eg the police/government, will only curse/punish them for their sins-in-deeds, ie not for their sins-in-thoughts. So, we may sin-in-thoughts but we should never sin-in-deeds. The consequences of Adam's Original Sin or our sins-in-thoughts, ie hell, only come into effect or fruition after we die. Only those who believe/trust in Jesus Christ will be saved from hell when they die.

Nice theory, sadly not found anywhere in Scripture.

 

[messager777]

Nice theory, sadly not found anywhere in Scripture.

.
MATTHEW.5: = Adultery in the Heart
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

 

[Danthemailman]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

 

[Neostarwcc]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

The people on YouTube you mentioned aren't sinless they commit sins just like the rest of us. Just by stating that they're sinless is proof that they sin. Not to mention the other sins that they commit. There hasn't been a single person aside from Jesus Christ that was sinless. It's an impossibility until we get our new glorified bodies and, I'm not even sure how THAT would work. I just have faith in God's promise that one day, we will be sinless and finally be free of our sin curses.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Hi everyone, this is just something I've been wondering lately, can you become sinless or can anybody truly stop sinning (after they have been saved)? I've come across various people on youtube, namely these 3 people
One Reality
Robert Lyte
finalcall07
that believe this "doctrine" (is it a doctrine?)

Adam and Eve were in the garden with God, naked and not ashamed until a change of eyesight after eating from the tree God had commanded them not to eat. They were thrown out of the garden and blocked from the tree of life...of which we seek our way back to through and IN Christ by faith.

When their eyesight changed, they suddenly perceived they were naked and ashamed as they were hearing and seeing from a different place (spiritually speaking). We perceive from self-soul and or the Spirit of God. One leads to a bottomless, the other opens a door to heaven. And, the kingdom of heaven is within and cannot be found by observation outside of that temple (not made with human hands) we are though we don't yet 'know' we are until it be revealed...we see dimly at first..."but then face to face: ...but then shall I know even as also I am known." The revealing of a son (no gender implied) through The Son.

So, it has to do with our perception (where we are seeing and hearing from that goes back to the question God asked Adam, "Where art thou?"... "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." And, no one can reason with God without becoming clean. He can only give us what we see as possible...and with God ALL things are possible...HE promises to reconcile us back to The Father...

'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'

 

[Targaryen]

Why is this heresy in Traditional Theology?

As Catherineanne said, Pelgianism has been a heretical view for a long time now.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

The people on YouTube you mentioned aren't sinless they commit sins just like the rest of us. Just by stating that they're sinless is proof that they sin. Not to mention the other sins that they commit. There hasn't been a single person aside from Jesus Christ that was sinless. It's an impossibility until we get our new glorified bodies and, I'm not even sure how THAT would work. I just have faith in God's promise that one day, we will be sinless and finally be free of our sin curses.

With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

...if we believe, anything less is unbelief, and He can only give us what we can 'see' as possible...Jesus came to take away our sin...that is a promise...as is the promise to make us overcomers...just as Christ overcame and He being the firstborn of the new creation among many brethren...when we can 'see' the son that we are IN HIM and through Him..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."...perceiving from flesh or spirit? Earth/dust realm/five senses or heavenly realm/within us?

Which has to do with where we are perceiving from as it relates to the question God asked in the garden, "Where art thou?"

If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[Soyeong]

1John1:7 "the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

Indeed, but then we don't stop sinning.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Indeed, but then we don't stop sinning.

We don't? Why not? What sin is God not able to deliver us from? As we get older if we don't stop we sure slow down. If we do not die in our sin.

1 John 5:16 "If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that."

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hello, folks.

If this discussion is going to continue, it needs to be in another forum - perhaps Controversial Theology.

In the first place, this is Traditional Theology. Anyone posting in reply should please read the Statement of Purpose for Traditional Theology and abide by its terms.

Secondly, it is against the rules of General Theology (of which TT is a subforum) to promote sinless perfectionism.

As mentioned previously by a few of our TT posters, this is a heresy long rejected by Christianity.

If you define "sin" as only the outward breaking of major commandments, then of course Christians should stop doing these things. But sin includes every momentary flash of pride or covetousness, a moment of unjustified anger, and so on. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8.

 

[Targaryen]

Can I formally request this thread be moved?