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I editted my previous post. This conversatiin is keeping me from going for a rest.
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I editted my previous post. This conversatiin is keeping me from going for a rest.They could read and write, verified what he was saying and agreed upon it? Could you show me where?
Ok please let me know which book you are referring to and give the relevant reference.
I know of it and have studied some of its chapters.
'Some' may say that, but 'some' may say just about anything, you know.As a non Christian, all I know is what you people say, to understand the message of the NT you have to receive the 'holy spirit'.
There are references to one or more men of God coming.
So who is this John? Was he a Disciple and did he write this himself?
Blind faith is forbidden to us Muslims, and so we are encouraged to seek knowledge and examine evidences. Who is this Mark and did he write this himself?
And that person probably should respond to your question. I merely pointed out that this is not a conventional Christian POV lest you get the idea that it is.Hence my question to the former Christian. In Islam nothing is mentioned about a spirit being received and dwelling within to guide one to truth etc. Rather God says, I've given you faculties to use and reason with to examine the message and study what it has to say.
Christians claim everlasting life is ONLY granted to those who accept Jesus pbuh as Lord and Saviour, but is this doctrine the result of the early Church splitting in the First Century and later theological doctrines that emerged over Hundreds of years?
Judaism teaches;
"All your nation is righteous, they will inherit the earth eternally; the shoot that I have planted, the work of My hands, something to be proud of" (Isaiah 60:21).
One has to be righteous, not sinless, for no man that has ever been created was sinless. We all stumble and the righteous get back up and keep going:
Proverbs 24:16: "The righteous fall even seven times and still get up, but the wicked stumble in evil."
There is no person on earth so righteous that he does only good and never sins" (Eccl. 7:20)
"Open the gates, so that the righteous nation that keeps the faith may enter" (Isaiah 26:2).
Jews become righteous by following the Torah to the best of their abilities and getting back up when they stumble;
Those who lead a life of sin can also find salvation for the wicked who repent are no longer called wicked:
Even when I have told the wicked that he will die, but then he repents, and he does justice and righteousness; he returns the collateral when he is supposed to, he repays what he stole, he begins to live by the Laws of Life, and does not do evil, he will live, and he will not die. All the sins that he committed will not be held against him, for he has begun to do judgment and righteousness; he shall surely live.
-- Ezekiel 33:14-16
No Prophet ever came to the Jews and rebuked them for not accepting Jesus pbuh as saviour.
Now Christians try to evangelise Jews and Jews strongly resist these attempts. The Qur'an says on this matter;
The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ. Qur'an 2:113
Muslims obtain salvation by following the Qur'an and authentic traditions of the final Prophet of Allah swt. We have 6 articles of faith:
To believe God and his Oneness
To believe in all the Prophets found in the Tawrat, Injeel, Zabur, (Psalms) and Qur'an
To believe in all the previous Scriptures in their original forms
To believe in the Angels and the unseen
To believe in the Afterlife including Hell, Paradise and the Day of Judgement
To believe in Predestination
From Adam to John the Baptist pbut people did not require belief in Jesus pbuh as saviour.
The family of Jesus pbuh and early the Christians who initially remained in Jerusalem acted on his teachings, by following them they had a chance to obtain salvation.
Later teachers taught salvation was gained by making Jesus pbuh the focus of worship. This later group won the hearts and minds of the powerful Roman rulers. Much of the focus of Pagan worship was rebranded over time and Christianity became the dominant religion of the vast Empire.
Islam like its sister religion Judaism makes it clear worship is for God alone, and one must repent and turn back to God for salvation. Nobody is without sin and the Devil ever ready to pounce and mislead, so cling to the rope of God by regular prayers, fasting, giving charity and doing good deeds. A man once asked the Prophet what he could do to obtain salvation, as he found fasting and praying difficult. The Prophet told him to guard that which was between his legs and that which was between his jaws.
Ultimately it is for God to pardon his righteous servants; as a minimum to stand any chance of avoiding the hell fire, we should acknowledge Him alone, do good and be kind to one another.
“Those who remember God (always, and in prayers) standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying), "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted are You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire.” (Quran 3:191)
For Salvation, our trust should be placed in the Creator, not the created:
Qur'an 9:30-31
"...the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?"
"They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him."
At the end of the day, whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or even Hinduism, Sufism, Zoroastrianism, or Bahai, they all end up to be faith-based religions. Nobody can personally verify or prove any of their stories or dogmas, and it seems futile to me to debate whether one set of dogmas is more or less true than another set of dogmas.
This mindset brinny , more and more are becoming prophets of interfaith . I have seen this increasingMe? Personally?
We've just reached a quagmire. I am not the living God. He speaks through His Word. He has already stated WHO is the Savior and has taken away the sins of the world (those who confess Him as the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living) and Who has shed His innocent, spotless blood, dying, and rising again, and will be coming again as Conqueror.
If i remember correctly, you are familiar with the Bible, God's Word, are you not?
I see no inherent need to elevate the importance of faith ... except due to the fact that faith-based religions must elevate faith, because it is essentially their foundation.And in a rather odd twist, at least in Christianity, if that in which we put our faith were to appear as an indisputable fact, then we would no longer be believing on faith, which evidently disqualifies it as faith per se. I've encountered this rationale in past discussions about the prospect of post-mortem conversion, where it's argued that if a perrson's belief in God only comes after seeing Him face-to-face, then it doesn't count towards salvation, because it was supposed to be faith that saves, and at that point it's just fact.
I guess you could say it has to be faith-to-faith, not face-to-face. What can I thay?
Sure,
Isaiah 63
1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. 2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Isaiah 21
1 The burden of the desert of the sea. As whirlwinds in the south pass through; so it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land.
2 A grievous vision is declared unto me; the treacherous dealer dealeth treacherously, and the spoiler spoileth. Go up, O Elam: besiege, O Media; all the sighing thereof have I made to cease.
3 Therefore are my loins filled with pain: pangs have taken hold upon me, as the pangs of a woman that travaileth: I was bowed down at the hearing of it; I was dismayed at the seeing of it.
4 My heart panted, fearfulness affrighted me: the night of my pleasure hath he turned into fear unto me.
5 Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, and anoint the shield.
6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.
7 And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:
8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:
9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.
10 O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you.
11 The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night?
12 The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye: return, come.
13 The burden (oracle, prophecy) upon Arabia:
In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companies of Dedanim.
14 The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled.
15 For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war.
16 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail:
17 And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the Lord God of Israel hath spoken it.
Isaiah 29
11 This vision is like the words of a ·book [scroll] that is closed and sealed. You may give the book to someone who can read and tell that person to read it. But he will say, “I can’t read the book, because it is sealed.” 12 Or you may give the book to someone who cannot read and tell him to read it. But he will say, “I don’t know how to read.”
Isaiah 35
1 The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad;
the desert shall rejoice and blossom like the crocus;
2 it shall blossom abundantly
and rejoice with joy and singing.
The glory of Lebanon shall be given to it,
the majesty of Carmel and Sharon.
They shall see the glory of the Lord,
the majesty of our God.
3 Strengthen the weak hands,
and make firm the feeble knees.
4 Say to those who have an anxious heart,
“Be strong; fear not!
Behold, your God
will come with vengeance,
with the recompense of God.
He will come and save you.”
5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
and the ears of the deaf unstopped;
6 then shall the lame man leap like a deer,
and the tongue of the mute sing for joy.
For waters break forth in the wilderness,
and streams in the desert;
7 the burning sand shall become a pool,
and the thirsty ground springs of water;
in the haunt of jackals, where they lie down,
the grass shall become reeds and rushes.
8 And a highway shall be there,
and it shall be called the Way of Holiness;
the unclean shall not pass over it.
It shall belong to those who walk on the way;
even if they are fools, they shall not go astray.[a]
9 No lion shall be there,
nor shall any ravenous beast come up on it;
they shall not be found there,
but the redeemed shall walk there.
10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return
and come to Zion with singing;
everlasting joy shall be upon their heads;
they shall obtain gladness and joy,
and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
Isaiah 41
1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment.
2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.
Isaiah 42
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a Covenant of the people, for a Light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison,{and} them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I {am} the Lord: that {is} my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
10 Sing unto the Lord a new song,{and} his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.
11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up {their voice}, the villages {that} Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.
12 Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands.
Isaiah 60
The Future Glory of Israel
60 Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.
2 For behold, darkness shall cover the earth,
and thick darkness the peoples;
but the Lord will arise upon you,
and his glory will be seen upon you.
3 And nations shall come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your rising.
4 Lift up your eyes all around, and see;
they all gather together, they come to you;
your sons shall come from afar,
and your daughters shall be carried on the hip.
5 Then you shall see and be radiant;
your heart shall thrill and exult,[a]
because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you,
the wealth of the nations shall come to you.
6 A multitude of camels shall cover you,
the young camels of Midian and Ephah;
all those from Sheba shall come.
They shall bring gold and frankincense,
and shall bring good news, the praises of the Lord.
7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered to you;
the rams of Nebaioth shall minister to you;
they shall come up with acceptance on my altar,
and I will beautify my beautiful house.
8 Who are these that fly like a cloud,
and like doves to their windows?
9 For the coastlands shall hope for me,
the ships of Tarshish first,
to bring your children from afar,
their silver and gold with them,
for the name of the Lord your God,
and for the Holy One of Israel,
because he has made you beautiful.
10 Foreigners shall build up your walls,
and their kings shall minister to you;
for in my wrath I struck you,
but in my favor I have had mercy on you.
Isaiah 60:11 Your gates shall be open continually;
day and night they shall not be shut,
that people may bring to you the wealth of the nations,
with their kings led in procession.
12 For the nation and kingdom
that will not serve you shall perish;
those nations shall be utterly laid waste.
13 The glory of Lebanon shall come to you,
the cypress, the plane, and the pine,
to beautify the place of my sanctuary,
and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14 The sons of those who afflicted you
shall come bending low to you,
and all who despised you
shall bow down at your feet;
they shall call you the City of the Lord,
the Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 Whereas you have been forsaken and hated,
with no one passing through,
I will make you majestic forever,
a joy from age to age.
16 You shall suck the milk of nations;
you shall nurse at the breast of kings;
and you shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior
and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
17 Instead of bronze I will bring gold,
and instead of iron I will bring silver;
instead of wood, bronze,
instead of stones, iron.
I will make your overseers peace
and your taskmasters righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in your land,
devastation or destruction within your borders;
you shall call your walls Salvation,
and your gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more
your light by day,
nor for brightness shall the moon
give you light;
but the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your God will be your glory.[c]
20 Your sun shall no more go down,
nor your moon withdraw itself;
for the Lord will be your everlasting light,
and your days of mourning shall be ended.
21 Your people shall all be righteous;
they shall possess the land forever,
the branch of my planting, the work of my hands,
that I might be glorified.[d]
22 The least one shall become a clan,
and the smallest one a mighty nation;
I am the Lord;
in its time I will hasten it.
Praise the LORD . contend for the true faith once delivered unto the saints. Fight the fight brinny . and praise the LORD.Thank you kindly. It's a lot of effort to post all of those verses, and i appreciate your graciousness in doing so.
Isaiah 63:1-6 is speaking on God's holy wrath.
Isaiah 60 is speaking on Israel.
Isaiah 53 speaks on the Savior and describes His suffering, the shedding of His blood and dying.
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
In Isaiah 7:14 there is the prophesy of the coming SAvior:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
In Matthew 1:23 it is written as well:
23 “Behold, a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel” (which being interpreted is, “God with us”).
Isaiah 9:6-7 is the prophesy of the Savior and Who this Savior is:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
There may be more verses. Again, thank you kindly for posting those verses.
It's true. Christianity is unique as a religion of love, so there's always the danger of well-intentioned but insufficiently wary Christians being deceived by some new preacher or promoter who plays on that theme.It is true, fringe organisations within all the World's religions are trying to bring about a new age type of religion, which sees all roads leading to God, but the majority of adherents in those faiths are all aware of the Devil's handywork and reject such idealism. The majority of suckers that get caught in the New Age movement will be Christians, and the evidence for this is abundantly clear if you look through the various Ministries on Youtube.
new age movment has already sucked a whole mess of christains , WHO knew NOT JESUS , into it Already. it stemmed fromIt is true, fringe organisations within all the World's religions are trying to bring about a new age type of religion, which sees all roads leading to God, but the majority of adherents in those faiths are all aware of the Devil's handywork and reject such idealism. The majority of suckers that get caught in the New Age movement will be Christians, and the evidence for this is abundantly clear if you look through the various Ministries on Youtube.
Then question what JESUS said ponder this.As a Buddhist, I question every religion - not just Christianity.
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