Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[Job 33:6]

Ok. We are just arguing over nothing. Let's do this. Prove to me that humans evolved.

Have you watched the video? With all those references of ancient texts and artifacts that describe the waters above as literal water? In genesis, the waters below are gathered to form the seas. Thats not spiritual water.

And sure, we can move on to science.

 

[BeyondET]

I'm just referring to translations. Sometimes raqia is translated as sky, sometimes as heavens etc.

The waters above are not "rain". It's not clouds or anything like that. That's why Genesis says that the waters are above the heavens. The waters are not "in" in the heavens, but above it. And the psalmist says the same. And stars are "in" the expanse, and so the waters above, are above the stars.

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

So the waters above are not rain or clouds.



There's nothing to build because the expanse is just an expanse.



No. The water remained in the sky.

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Forever and ever.




Yes, sort of.



Moses didn't do that, but who's to say that we should agree with Moses? Have you ever climbed a mountain and found yourself in heaven? Have you ever dug down into the earth and found the underworld? Are the stars angelic beings when you look at them through a telescope?

Moses combined these supernatural and material worlds in the Bible. But that doesn't mean that this was a correct understanding of things.


God inspired Moses, but God didn't instruct Moses on specifically what to write.

When you read the letters of Paul, it doesn't say "I, Jesus, am writing to the church of Ephesus". Its Paul who is writing. Same with the old testament. Inspiration does not mean that God took over their brain and wrote for them.


No, the order is different in science than in the Bible.

An issue I see here, stars are mentioned separately from the lights in the expanse or the great lights.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15 And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.

16 God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.

Those are the wondering stars, aka planets

 

[Job 33:6]

An issue I see here, stars are mentioned separately from the lights in the expanse or the great lights.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15 And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.

16 God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.

Those are the wondering stars, aka planets

Yea I agree, the two great lights would be the sun and the moon. But the original authors would have also been able to observe wandering stars as well, even if they didn't know that they were planets.

 

[Job 33:6]

Ok. We are just arguing over nothing. Let's do this. Prove to me that humans evolved.

Some evidence that I find compelling for evolution are, of course from the fossil record. The Bible and the fossil record actually do not align. Because the Bible has birds and fish created before land animals. Whereas in the fossil record, birds post-date dinosaurs. Which are land based.

But the fact that there is a step by step series of transitions throughout the fossil record, I think is pretty good evidence that life has evolved over time.

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[BeyondET]

Yea I agree, the two great lights would be the sun and the moon. But the original authors would have also been able to observe wandering stars as well, even if they didn't know that they were planets.

Indeed thus the saying and He made the stars also after the mentioning of lights in the expanse and the great lights.

 

[Job 33:6]

Some evidence that I find compelling for evolution are, of course from the fossil record. The Bible and the fossil record actually do not align. Because the Bible has birds and fish created before land animals. Whereas in the fossil record, birds post-date dinosaurs. Which are land based.

But the fact that there is a step by step series of transitions throughout the fossil record, I think is pretty good evidence that life has evolved over time.

View attachment 344680
View attachment 344678View attachment 344679

Seems reasonable to me.

And so the next question of course comes around,

What is the best explanation for this evidence?

 

[Job 33:6]

Indeed thus the saying and He made the stars also after the mentioning of lights in the expanse and the great lights.

so what's the issue that you see?

 

[Job 33:6]

An issue I see here, stars are mentioned separately from the lights in the expanse or the great lights.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15 And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.

16 God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.

Those are the wondering stars, aka planets

I would interpret "two great lights" as the sun and moon. And then all the other lights as being regular stars and planets as well.

 

[olgamc]

Have you watched the video? With all those references of ancient texts and artifacts that describe the waters above as literal water? In genesis, the waters below are gathered to form the seas. Thats not spiritual water.

And sure, we can move on to science.

No, I haven’t. I really don’t care very much about other ancient texts. If God said to Moses that He separated waters from waters, then that’s what God said. If ancient cosmology used the same words to mean something that is not true, well it’s their problem, not Gods, and not Moses’.

 

[BeyondET]

so what's the issue that you see?

Planets are not in the expanse but the solar system.

 

[olgamc]

Some evidence that I find compelling for evolution are, of course from the fossil record. The Bible and the fossil record actually do not align. Because the Bible has birds and fish created before land animals. Whereas in the fossil record, birds post-date dinosaurs. Which are land based.

But the fact that there is a step by step series of transitions throughout the fossil record, I think is pretty good evidence that life has evolved over time.

View attachment 344680
View attachment 344678View attachment 344679

Seems reasonable to me.

Sure. Of course we are not counting that God could have created the fossils when He created the earth. Or that He could have jump started the big categories as opposed to having them evolve. We are eliminating God out of His creation entirely. Personally, if someone did that to me, I would find that disrespectful and kind of silly.

Ok, how about the evolution of people specifically?

 

[Job 33:6]

No, I haven’t. I really don’t care very much about other ancient texts. If God said to Moses that He separated waters from waters, then that’s what God said. If ancient cosmology used the same words to mean something that is not true, well it’s their problem, not Gods, and not Moses’.

huh? Well no wonder we cant agree on things, you're blinding yourself from evidence for my position.

 

[BeyondET]

I would interpret "two great lights" as the sun and moon. And then all the other lights as being regular stars and planets as well.

Well the moon is illuminated from the outward flowing of light from the sun, thus lesser light.

 

[Job 33:6]

Well the moon is illuminated from the outward flowing of light from the sun, thus lesser light.

I don't think that contradicts the interpretation that its talking about the sun and moon.

 

[Job 33:6]

Well the moon is illuminated from the outward flowing of light from the sun, thus lesser light.

yea I think we would agree then.

 

[BeyondET]

yea I think we would agree then.

No issue then, there are some folks who actually believe the moon produces its own light. Though It's a satel lite

 

[Aviel]

Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

Yes.

And, there are many who don't believe in the "theory of evolution" and they are not saved.

Becoming a CHIRISTian, is to BELIEVE in Jesus, .. Its to Give your FAITH in CHRIST to God, and "faith is counted (by God), as (Christ's) righteousness, = imputed to the believer"..

 

[Job 33:6]

Sure. Of course we are not counting that God could have created the fossils when He created the earth. Or that He could have jump started the big categories as opposed to having them evolve. We are eliminating God out of His creation entirely. Personally, if someone did that to me, I would find that disrespectful and kind of silly.

Ok, how about the evolution of people specifically?

well the earth has foot tracks and trace fossils that would indicate that the earth wasn't created with fossils in it.

And the latter option, God creating big categories:

I think it would suggest that God was wrestles or impatient. He creates fish group A, its not quite right, he renders it extinct, creates group B, that's not quite right, renders it extinct, creates group C, still not quite right, he destroys it, comes up with group D and on and on and on...

It's easier to imagine evolution via common ancestry than to think of it as God creating and destroying a billion times over and over and over again like He doesn't know what He wants.

 

[Job 33:6]

Sure. Of course we are not counting that God could have created the fossils when He created the earth. Or that He could have jump started the big categories as opposed to having them evolve. We are eliminating God out of His creation entirely. Personally, if someone did that to me, I would find that disrespectful and kind of silly.

Ok, how about the evolution of people specifically?

And I would view the evolution of people in the same way as evolution of any other living thing, particularly of the animal kingdom.

 

[BeyondET]

well the earth has foot tracks and trace fossils that would indicate that the earth wasn't created with fossils in it.

And the latter option, God creating big categories:

View attachment 344681

I think it would suggest that God was wrestles or impatient. He creates fish group A, its not quite right, he renders it extinct, creates group B, that's not quite right, renders it extinct, creates group C, still not quite right, he destroys it, comes up with group D and on and on and on...

It's easier to imagine evolution via common ancestry than to think of it as God creating and destroying a billion times over and over and over again like He doesn't know what He wants.

This makes me wonder why not just create a caterpiller and a butterfly separate. Why did God create an animal to go through a complete dissolve to soup then a total transformation just to produce a butterfly