Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

Trailltrader said:

Does it bother me he's gay? Nowhere near as much as it bothers HIM and his SISTERS being gay. Based on what I know of their family I'm pretty sure that being gay is like a genetic defect like blue eyes or red hair or something.

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None of those things are defects

SkyWriting said:

And the greatest commandment being?

Bible Search: the greatest commandment

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regardless it does not change the others ..implying love is the greater commandment does not wipe out ongoing sin -repentance does that -to turn away from stop cease desist ..go the other way .. if there is no repentance then the sin is committed over and over --that is a result of disobedience and its fruit is unrighteousness and its end is eternal separation from God .
we will reap what we sow ..

Trailltrader said:

Well, I have a unique perspective to share with all of you. The US Army/Veterans Administration has me listed as "bipolar-NOS" (Not otherwise specified) which is a fancy way of saying "we don't know what caused it, but it seems to have started while he was in the military and his brain never healed". Being bipolar is similar to being gay or bi or some other sub-culture that you CANNOT control. God must have protected me for all the bad supervisors over a 30 year period I'd beat the tar out of, and being homeless 3 to 5 times.

Ironically one of the guys I went through basic and AIT hid he was gay from me for 20 years. As young boys we'd go out dancing to meet women and he'd intentionally screw it up because he just didn't "swing that way".

Fast forward 30, 35 years- he now works at the Veterans Administration as a Doctor. He's gentle, incredibly smart, has the kind of personality I wish I had- and I consider myself darn lucky to have him to ask UNoffical questions about my health.

Would I trust him with my life? I've trusted him the last 30+ years no questions asked.
Does it bother me he's gay? Nowhere near as much as it bothers HIM and his SISTERS being gay. Based on what I know of their family I'm pretty sure that being gay is like a genetic defect like blue eyes or red hair or something.

Now, knowing that would it even be fair to gauge or judge someone they can't control? Something which is literally beyond their ability? If I have to judge, they get a free pass on this one in spite of what the Apostle Paul wrote.

"This I command you, to LOVE one another"- thats what The Son said. Throwing stones at gays isn't love.

Now, throwing bullets to injure and rope to hang bankers for the 2006-current economic crisis? Pass me another magazine...

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massive assumption you make there -
no one is throwing stones by declaring sin is sin .
the op Question is valid and the answer is NO ..

according to the scriptures - (NOT FLESH BASED REASONING ) one is not saved if they continue willfully in sin.Chrsit died that we need not do so but be freed from it .

again, to say one sin is genetic and has some kind of exclusivity separating it from all others is like saying all men who are unfaithful to their wives do so because they are genetically inclined to do so and cant help it ..so they can continue , which is a load of rubbish .

it is an unforgivable sin to blaspheme and lie to the holy Spirit
and none have ever claimed to believe in Jesus and then said they asked the holy Spirit if they can continue to lay with their man partner as a man lays with a woman ..and testified that he said yes .. because they would be lying in an unforgivable manner by calling the Holy Spirit -who is God speaking .. a liar .which would be blasphemy. because he has already stated it to be not only sin but abhorrent .God is not a man that he should lie.

when you read the account of our LORD JESUS you will note that he healed many people and cast out many demons ... why are these two so often mentioned together? because the demon is the source of the curse bringing the perversion of health to people bodies .

this sin is as demonically inspired as every sin - so a person CAN NOT walk in unrepentant obedience to the spirit of this world AND in obedience to the Holy Spirit - You CAN NOT serve two masters .

Joykins said:

None of those things are defects

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SIN is a defect ..it is such a defect that it brings eternal death to all mankind .

Jesus came to set us free from sin and death .. not free to go right back and continue in that which brings death , but free to turn away and walk the other way and walk in obedience to the holy Spirit.

Joykins said:

None of those things are defects

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Well, theres been some argument if "Gingers" have souls- and then I was told that for each freckle, the Ginger had stolen a soul. I guess its a mater of perspective...

michaelmynameIs said:

SIN is a defect ..it is such a defect that it brings eternal death to all mankind .

Jesus came to set us free from sin and death .. not free to go right back and continue in that which brings death , but free to turn away and walk the other way and walk in obedience to the holy Spirit.

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Blue eyes and red hair are sins?

And the disciples asked Him, saying, "Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus answered "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."
John 9:2-3

Good question- are blue eyes and red hair sin? Depends how they're applied- by DNA or by some kid "tagging" a person with a can of spray paint! No, I didn't say who had the sin either!

SkyWriting said:

And the greatest commandment being?

Bible Search: the greatest commandment

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It might help you to read that scripture.
The greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

The Lord God Jesus declared, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Show me the scripture wherein Jesus said to tolerate sin. To not rebuke the sinner.
It is not there. Jesus declared the unrepentant, the fornicators, the unrepentant, shall not see Heaven.

Jesus said do not judge by appearances but by righteous judgment.

Do not imagine to preach a doctrine of anything goes and call it of God. We are to rebuke our neighbor when they transgress. That is God's word. Man has no license to revoke it.

OllieFranz said:

Blue eyes and red hair are sins?

And the disciples asked Him, saying, "Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus answered "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."
John 9:2-3

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your misdirecting the topic off the core issue .

the point is ,trying to say the desire to lay with another man as a man lays with a woman ,is a genetic defect ..is the same as saying a man who is unfaithful to his wife does so because of a genetic defect ..
which is rubbish .. the only defect at play is "SIN" ,which has marred us all and thus we are in need of a savior ,who IS JESUS. and he has made away for us to be freed from the defect of SIN and be born again so that we no longer behave under the power of the defect of sin .

folks who desire in the flesh to commit sin in this manner do not have some exclusive claim to excuse themselves from the truth that they are sinning because they are born that way . We are all born with a bent toward sin sorry . and we all must repent .. not deny Jesus by excusing ourselves from accountability to out choice to disobey him or obey him .

I never said to tolerate sin. Its simply a part of the human existence. Did not the Apostle Paul write "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God?"

Do you believe that Gods Grace is so limited that if we were given some kind of a physical defect that caused us to sin that his grace wouldn't cover us?

I have brain damage- and some days I sound like "Tourette's Man" singing "The Lady in Red" on Youtube. Can I be held accountable because I'm as screwed up as a football bat? A tennis helmet? Maybe I'm as screwed up as Hockey Ice cleats,,,,!

You can look at sin and beat yourself up over it- and beat up other people, and thereby make both people hurt with the intolerance. Or you can try to work to avoid it, work with in it, to avoid it.

Personally, I've tried the "beat myself up and other people for their sin" approach and it just doesn't work. Period. All it does is hurt your soul and other peoples soul- worse, it does more damage because it does give those who oppose the church ammunition for their accusations are right in that we do become intolerant.

Example: John 8:1-11 New Living Translation (NLT)

8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Sure, Jesus could have spanked her- it's his right- but he realized that forgiveness was far more important.

Jesus also realized something else- small town, long term effect of being caught in something like this? What would the other women do? Would they accept her or would they ignore her?

Cross reference this to the woman at the well at Sychar. Very similar circumstances- "Wheres your husband?" "Don't have one"- "You're right- you've had 5, and the guy you're with isn't your husband"- she freaks out, and for being a "Lady of Red" she marches right up into the Mayor's office and demands immediate attention.

Jesus can afford to be that forgiving. First, he see's the motivation of why a person does what they did. Second, its his right to judge- or not. Remember the parable of where the Owner of a field hires workers for the day for one day's wage? Then he goes back at noon? Then he goes back an hour before quitting time yet he pays all of them one days wages? The guys who worked all day are angry and feel cheated?

The one thing about Grace and Mercy is- I don't think any human really understands it. I've read it, studied it, made notes- and frankly the depth of understanding required is beyond humanities understanding.

I am NOT saying take it for granted- I am saying however if anything we UNDERestimate Grace and Mercy and we do NOT give enough thanks for what we have received.

Trailltrader said:

I never said to tolerate sin. Its simply a part of the human existence. Did not the Apostle Paul write "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God?"

Do you believe that Gods Grace is so limited that if we were given some kind of a physical defect that caused us to sin that his grace wouldn't cover us?

I have brain damage- and some days I sound like "Tourette's Man" singing "The Lady in Red" on Youtube. Can I be held accountable because I'm as screwed up as a football bat? A tennis helmet? Maybe I'm as screwed up as Hockey Ice cleats,,,,!

You can look at sin and beat yourself up over it- and beat up other people, and thereby make both people hurt with the intolerance. Or you can try to work to avoid it, work with in it, to avoid it.

Personally, I've tried the "beat myself up and other people for their sin" approach and it just doesn't work. Period. All it does is hurt your soul and other peoples soul- worse, it does more damage because it does give those who oppose the church ammunition for their accusations are right in that we do become intolerant.

Example: John 8:1-11 New Living Translation (NLT)

8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Sure, Jesus could have spanked her- it's his right- but he realized that forgiveness was far more important.

Jesus also realized something else- small town, long term effect of being caught in something like this? What would the other women do? Would they accept her or would they ignore her?

Cross reference this to the woman at the well at Sychar. Very similar circumstances- "Wheres your husband?" "Don't have one"- "You're right- you've had 5, and the guy you're with isn't your husband"- she freaks out, and for being a "Lady of Red" she marches right up into the Mayor's office and demands immediate attention.

Jesus can afford to be that forgiving. First, he see's the motivation of why a person does what they did. Second, its his right to judge- or not. Remember the parable of where the Owner of a field hires workers for the day for one day's wage? Then he goes back at noon? Then he goes back an hour before quitting time yet he pays all of them one days wages? The guys who worked all day are angry and feel cheated?

The one thing about Grace and Mercy is- I don't think any human really understands it. I've read it, studied it, made notes- and frankly the depth of understanding required is beyond humanities understanding.

I am NOT saying take it for granted- I am saying however if anything we UNDERestimate Grace and Mercy and we do NOT give enough thanks for what we have received.

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but we have received this grace and mercy so that we might BE FREE and no longer behave in the manner of the flesh .. NOT so that we can make excuse and say there is grace and mercy so i wil continue in it .that is merely disobedience .

shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ...? God forbid....

michaelmynameIs said:

your misdirecting the topic off the core issue .

the point is ,trying to say the desire to lay with another man as a man lays with a woman ,is a genetic defect ..is the same as saying a man who is unfaithful to his wife does so because of a genetic defect ..
which is rubbish .. the only defect at play is "SIN" ,which has marred us all and thus we are in need of a savior ,who IS JESUS. and he has made away for us to be freed from the defect of SIN and be born again so that we no longer behave under the power of the defect of sin .

folks who desire in the flesh to commit sin in this manner do not have some exclusive claim to excuse themselves from the truth that they are sinning because they are born that way . We are all born with a bent toward sin sorry . and we all must repent .. not deny Jesus by excusing ourselves from accountability to out choice to disobey him or obey him .

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Look again. Someone called homosexuality a defect "like blue eyes or red hair." Another poster claimed that they are not "defects." You disagreed, saying that they are "the defect of SIN." That means that you said that blue eyes and red hair are sins. I was just pointing it out.

OllieFranz said:

Look again. Someone called homosexuality a defect "like blue eyes or red hair." Another poster claimed that they are not "defects." You disagreed, saying that they are "the defect of SIN." That means that you said that blue eyes and red hair are sins. I was just pointing it out.

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cross purposes in posts is all

but
The point is ,trying to say the desire to lay with another man as a man lays with a woman ,is a genetic defect ..is the same as saying a man who is unfaithful to his wife does so because of a genetic defect ..
which is rubbish .. the only defect at play is "SIN" ,which has marred us all and thus we are in need of a savior ,who IS JESUS. and he has made away for us to be freed from the defect of SIN and be born again so that we no longer behave under the power of the defect of sin .

folks who desire in the flesh to commit sin in this manner do not have some exclusive claim to excuse themselves from the truth that they are sinning because they are born that way . We are all born with a bent toward sin sorry . and we all must repent .. not deny Jesus by excusing ourselves from accountability to out choice to disobey him or obey him .

temptation != sin != "defect"

Joykins said:

temptation != sin != "defect"

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the plaque on your avatar ..
"Jesus loves me just as i am " is an incomplete statement

because he loves me so much he , by the power of his spirit , then transforms me into the image of Christ .. so i am changed and no longer as i am .. but made like he is .
and if we do not allow him to do this work in us but resist him with our disobedience, and will not repent of our disobedience ..
then only a certain and fearful wrath of God awaits us .

michaelmynameIs said:

the plaque on your avatar ..
"Jesus loves me just as i am " is an incomplete statement

because he loves me so much he , by the power of his spirit , then transforms me into the image of Christ .. so i am changed and no longer as i am .. but made like he is .
and if we do not allow him to do this work in us but resist him with our disobedience, and will not repent of our disobedience ..
then only a certain and fearful wrath of God awaits us .

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When I was a little girl my Christian school teacher had me memorize this verse, and you know I am old because I memorized it in KJV:

For God commendeth his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So, yes. Jesus loves me just as I am

Joykins said:

temptation != sin != "defect"

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emphasis on the bold parts....I thought Jesus said otherwise on that.

Mathew 5:28?

ChristsSoldier115 said:

emphasis on the bold parts....I thought Jesus said otherwise on that.

Mathew 5:28?

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That is still an active sin: coveting someone else's wife. It is not the basic instinct to find a suitable spouse. A sex drive is a natural part of us that God placed in us to fulfill His commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Coveting and later acting on that coveting are the sins. Temptation fits between the inate drive and the coveting. It is not the sin, yet. Attraction fits between the basic drive and the temptation. It is not the sin at all.

OllieFranz said:

That is still an active sin: coveting someone else's wife. It is not the basic instinct to find a suitable spouse. A sex drive is a natural part of us that God placed in us to fulfill His commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Coveting and later acting on that coveting are the sins. Temptation fits between the inate drive and the coveting. It is not the sin, yet. Attraction fits between the basic drive and the temptation. It is not the sin at all.

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not so -- Jesus said if its in your heart ..your already guilty of it (if a man looks o a woman to lust after her he is guilty of adulatory.. sin is ALWAYS a mater of the heart first ..the act later .
job said , i have determined in my heart not to look on a maiden in lust ..(pp) therefore he understood the importance of never accepting the lie that just because the attraction is there ..that it is normal or acceptable .. it is not .
this applies to all sexual immorality

michaelmynameIs said:

not so -- Jesus said if its in your heart ..your already guilty of it (if a man looks o a woman to lust after her he is guilty of adulatory.. sin is ALWAYS a mater of the heart first ..the act later .
job said , i have determined in my heart not to look on a maiden in lust ..(pp) therefore he understood the importance of never accepting the lie that just because the attraction is there ..that it is normal or acceptable .. it is not .
this applies to all sexual immorality
(emphasis added)

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God has created us with a sex drive, and an inclination for sex in order to meet his command to be fruitful. Paul tells married couples that they must meet their spouses sexual needs. Sex is natural, and a part of God's plan for us. We have a sex drive and God intends that it be part of our lives. The sex drive is not the sin. Coveting -- that is the sin. Coveting is not the sex drive. Coveting is not mere attraction. Coveting is not even temptation if we fight it. It is when we choose to plan an act of adultery -- in your words when we "look at a woman to lust after her" -- that it becomes sin, even when we don't follow through. That is coveting.