Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

Leap · Jul 21, 2013

Joykins said:
I think that it is both disingenuous and inaccurate to deny that egg-producing individuals are female whether sperm is needed for reproduction or not, especially as I have given citations for this assertion and you have not given any for your position.

An egg needs fertilising.

If it doesn't need fertilising, it is not an egg (even if it open to being influenced by sperm - which is not 'fertilization', as that would require it needing such sperm to become life).

I don't need to cite web sources. You can go to any biology text and find out that the male produces the sperm, the female produces the egg, and both are needed to make life. That is what the sexes are - the two roles in sexual reproduction, and the only attempt at an argument you can make relies on a tiny number of species a long way down the evolutionary chain that cross the boundary of sexual and asexual reproduction.

Seriously, if this is your argument you are just looking really quite desperate and silly.

Joykins · Jul 21, 2013

Actually I am genuinely very interested in animal sexual behavior and reproduction, as well as biology in general. I found that learning the details about a number of species of animals really challenged a lot of preconceived notions I had about sex and reproduction. There are way more insects than there are humans, by the way, so if we want to make blanket statements about what sex IS and what sex ISN'T, especially when attempting to create lessons from nature, we need to make statements that cover all the variations.

I'm not sure what you mean by "down the evolutionary chain" -- do you mean the food chain? Ants are a highly evolved and complex species, with an incredible number of individuals, and they quickly evolve pesticide resistance (you wonder why last year's baits no longer work???). I didn't even touch on bees and wasps, or mice....

I think you are trying to reduce something quite complex and interesting down to something that is more simple and that you personally more commonly see in your own species, but there is more on heaven and earth than is dreamt of in that philosophy. Just when you think you know everything about sex, the exceptions just keep emerging when you poke at the topic a bit.

Leap · Jul 21, 2013

Joykins said:
I think you are trying to reduce something quite complex and interesting down to something that is more simple

No. I am simply not using species that can reproduce asexually as a means of defining what the sexes are. The sexes are defined as the two roles in sexual reproduction. That is what they are, and your attempt to confuse that by bringing in species that can reproduce asexually does not change any of that. *shrug*

Girder of Loins · Jul 24, 2013

mohmann said:
And I didn't wake up one morning and choose to lust, covet, or idolize. They are each a part of my sinful nature. And they each reveal God's grace to me. The last thing I would want to do is deny that any of them are a sin and thus reduce my view of God's amazing grace.

Sorry for the late response.

But those are each choices. You choose to engage in each of those things, you don't just find yourself in the middle of it. The progression has a beginning and an end, as each one is an action. Homosexuality is not an action, it is a biological trait.

Minireview: Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation

At the theological level, any verse you throw at me condemning homosexuality as a whole can be reinterpreted according to the culture in which the Bible was written(which is how it should be). If you don't interpret the Bible according to the culture it was written, you are guilty of deconstruction, and you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say according to your culture's definitions.

Alithis · Dec 9, 2013

lol it is the biological state of the sinful flesh to SIN .

claiming one sin has some special right over all others on the basis of it being biological is neither biblical nor correct.. a believer ,born again by the Spirit of God ,is to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the "sinful" desire of the flesh . ALL people have sinful desire but to walk in the Spirit is to Obey the Holy Spirit , thus if a man lays with another man as a man lays with a woman ... to do so ,he would need to be walking in disobedience to the Holy Spirit and while in disobedience he is a server of the flesh nd not a server of God - you cannot serve two masters .there must be a point of repentance where trust is palced fully in the lord Jesus to change ones sinful nature by putting it to death on the cross .. This can never happen until one confesses (admits)their nature is SINFUL .
excusing it & giving it new titles and terminology ,then embracing it and implying we all must accept it because it is "biological ".. is opposed to ALL the GOSPEL of JESUS the Christ.

zippy2006 · Dec 14, 2013

harvester77 said:
Is it morally wrong to be in a relationship with same sex if you are not having sex?

Of course not, it's called friendship. It is essential to any good life.

Alithis · Dec 14, 2013

zippy2006 said:
Of course not, it's called friendship. It is essential to any good life.

depends also .. are you laying with them as a man lays with a woman ?.are you being obedient to the holy Spirit in your life .?.or reasoning away god given conscience ?

inthesonifeelasone · Dec 14, 2013

DO NOT JUDGE!
only our lord Jesus is worthy and he made a new covenant with us he said the old testament is good for teaching and testing. He gave us two commandments (love the lord your god with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this love thy neighbour as thy self.)
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ladies and gentlemen. We are what God makes us, if we believe and trust in God alone we will not fail.
Those judging anyone be it Gay, Black, Poor, sinner, whatever you look down upon you better look inside yourself and pray to God to help you. For do not judge or the REAL judge will judge you. We as wise and good as we think we may be (I include myself here) are not worthy to judge one another. Only GOD is fit to judge whatever we are, and he knows the process behind your actions and your thinking so please I beg all of you listen to the words of Christ, Gods son not a prophet who as blessed as he may be, was not the messiah. Jesus will judge with all authority because no one not even moses/angels are like him he is GOD father, son and holy spirit. Triune all in one
Lord have mercy on us for judging one another in our struggle to obey and serve you to the best of our ability. Forgive us for twisting and assuming we understand your word when we cannot comprehend your will. Please help us to realise that without guidance from you directly we are simply and mistakenly assuming as the Pharisees and powers did, that we are serving God.
In Jesus name Amen

Alithis · Dec 15, 2013

inthesonifeelasone said:
DO NOT JUDGE!
only our lord Jesus is worthy and he made a new covenant with us he said the old testament is good for teaching and testing. He gave us two commandments (love the lord your god with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this love thy neighbour as thy self.)
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ladies and gentlemen. We are what God makes us, if we believe and trust in God alone we will not fail.
Those judging anyone be it Gay, Black, Poor, sinner, whatever you look down upon you better look inside yourself and pray to God to help you. For do not judge or the REAL judge will judge you. We as wise and good as we think we may be (I include myself here) are not worthy to judge one another. Only GOD is fit to judge whatever we are, and he knows the process behind your actions and your thinking so please I beg all of you listen to the words of Christ, Gods son not a prophet who as blessed as he may be, was not the messiah. Jesus will judge with all authority because no one not even moses/angels are like him he is GOD father, son and holy spirit. Triune all in one
Lord have mercy on us for judging one another in our struggle to obey and serve you to the best of our ability. Forgive us for twisting and assuming we understand your word when we cannot comprehend your will. Please help us to realise that without guidance from you directly we are simply and mistakenly assuming as the Pharisees and powers did, that we are serving God.
In Jesus name Amen

sounds nice.. but the emboldened sentence makes the assumption we can do it on our ability - we can not.and will always fail if we attempt to .
it must be done by him .. what we must exercise is faith .

thus if we walk in obedience to the holy Spirit we will not walk i the flesh because we will be obeying the Holy Spirit .one cannot serve two masters .
Also by His Holy Spirit ,who leads us into all truth ..we DO have understanding of his will for us . so if our perception of his will is in contradiction to both his Spirit and the written word ..it is not God who is wrong , but us . we must therefore repent and turn away from OUR thinking to be aligned with his .
----------------
of course i must assume you are replying to the op from many pages back .

Trailltrader · Dec 15, 2013

All of us struggle in life. Some gay, some have mental or physical issues, some have other issues such as any inequality in life such as being born poor. Doesn't Jesus command- COMMAND- to love one another? Doesn't the Apostle Paul write words to the effect that "love covers a multitude of sins"? Being bi or homosexual is enough of a headache they have to deal with.

Alithis · Dec 15, 2013

Trailltrader said:
All of us struggle in life. Some gay, some have mental or physical issues, some have other issues such as any inequality in life such as being born poor. Doesn't Jesus command- COMMAND- to love one another? Doesn't the Apostle Paul write words to the effect that "love covers a multitude of sins"? Being bi or homosexual is enough of a headache they have to deal with.

again- so is all sin.this one is not exclusive.The lord Jesus loves us .he shed his blood to set us free ,not leave us trapped in it.

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2013

harvester77 said:
And why do so many Christians disagree with this one? Why is it not straight forward? I struggle with this sin but I know deep down it is not a natural act. I have always known this since a child without anyone telling me otherwise? Is it morally wrong to be in a relationship with same sex if you are not having sex? How do change your feelings? It is not easy done. It is like asking a heterosexual to change their attraction, try doing that..

There is a certain, regular, predicable, percentage of the population that is genetically neither male nor female. We must accept people as they are and praise God for everyone who has has an opportunity to have faith in the Savior of the whole world. The only unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. All else is forgiven.

2ndRateMind · Dec 15, 2013

Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

Hmmm.

Being a Christian is about what one believes.
Being a practising homosexual is about what one does.
Being saved is about what one is.

I see no necessary contradiction among them. Believing and doing and being are separate matters. So, my answer is yes, you can be all three of these.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Trailltrader · Dec 15, 2013

Well, I have a unique perspective to share with all of you. The US Army/Veterans Administration has me listed as "bipolar-NOS" (Not otherwise specified) which is a fancy way of saying "we don't know what caused it, but it seems to have started while he was in the military and his brain never healed". Being bipolar is similar to being gay or bi or some other sub-culture that you CANNOT control. God must have protected me for all the bad supervisors over a 30 year period I'd beat the tar out of, and being homeless 3 to 5 times.

Ironically one of the guys I went through basic and AIT hid he was gay from me for 20 years. As young boys we'd go out dancing to meet women and he'd intentionally screw it up because he just didn't "swing that way".

Fast forward 30, 35 years- he now works at the Veterans Administration as a Doctor. He's gentle, incredibly smart, has the kind of personality I wish I had- and I consider myself darn lucky to have him to ask UNoffical questions about my health.

Would I trust him with my life? I've trusted him the last 30+ years no questions asked.
Does it bother me he's gay? Nowhere near as much as it bothers HIM and his SISTERS being gay. Based on what I know of their family I'm pretty sure that being gay is like a genetic defect like blue eyes or red hair or something.

Now, knowing that would it even be fair to gauge or judge someone they can't control? Something which is literally beyond their ability? If I have to judge, they get a free pass on this one in spite of what the Apostle Paul wrote.

"This I command you, to LOVE one another"- thats what The Son said. Throwing stones at gays isn't love.

Now, throwing bullets to injure and rope to hang bankers for the 2006-current economic crisis? Pass me another magazine...

Stone Butterfly · Dec 15, 2013

harvester77 said:
And why do so many Christians disagree with this one? Why is it not straight forward? I struggle with this sin but I know deep down it is not a natural act. I have always known this since a child without anyone telling me otherwise? Is it morally wrong to be in a relationship with same sex if you are not having sex?

How do change your feelings? It is not easy done. It is like asking a heterosexual to change their attraction, try doing that..

Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

No. 1 John 2:4 says, "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2013

Trailltrader said:
Well, I have a unique perspective to share with all of you. The US Army/Veterans Administration has me listed as "bipolar-NOS" (Not otherwise specified) which is a fancy way of saying "we don't know what caused it, but it seems to have started while he was in the military and his brain never healed". Being bipolar is similar to being gay or bi or some other sub-culture that you CANNOT control. God must have protected me for all the bad supervisors over a 30 year period I'd beat the tar out of, and being homeless 3 to 5 times.Ironically one of the guys I went through basic and AIT hid he was gay from me for 20 years. As young boys we'd go out dancing to meet women and he'd intentionally screw it up because he just didn't "swing that way".Fast forward 30, 35 years- he now works at the Veterans Administration as a Doctor. He's gentle, incredibly smart, has the kind of personality I wish I had- and I consider myself darn lucky to have him to ask UNoffical questions about my health.Would I trust him with my life? I've trusted him the last 30+ years no questions asked.Does it bother me he's gay? Nowhere near as much as it bothers HIM and his SISTERS being gay. Based on what I know of their family I'm pretty sure that being gay is like a genetic defect like blue eyes or red hair or something.Now, knowing that would it even be fair to gauge or judge someone they can't control? Something which is literally beyond their ability? If I have to judge, they get a free pass on this one in spite of what the Apostle Paul wrote."This I command you, to LOVE one another"- thats what The Son said. Throwing stones at gays isn't love.Now, throwing bullets to injure and rope to hang bankers for the 2006-current economic crisis? Pass me another magazine...

It's important for people to hear such stories. At one time I spoke out against homosexuality as well as swooned about the evils of having children out of wedlock. Fast forward 30 years, and my grandchild holds the largest piece of my heart, though raised by a single mom, and my cousin and her partner have raised two fine young boys that delight the family with their politeness and curiosity about the world.

I retract all my words that were voiced in the wrong spirit in the past.

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2013

Stone Butterfly said:
Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

No. 1 John 2:4 says, "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

And the greatest commandment being?

http://biblez.com/search.php?q=the+greatest+commandment

Vanilla Scripture · Dec 15, 2013

Stone Butterfly said:
Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

No. 1 John 2:4 says, "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

^This.

And any pastor, bishop, etc... that teaches otherwise shall answer for it and be condemned for their lies. Matthew 12:36-37.

SkyWriting · Dec 15, 2013

Vanilla Scripture said:
^This.

And any pastor, bishop, etc... that teaches otherwise shall answer for it and be condemned for their lies. Matthew 12:36-37.

Mine keeps them in order, starting with the greatest commandment:

Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

Perhaps your pastor is a sinner and makes mistakes.

Trailltrader · Dec 15, 2013

Well, I try not to judge anyone. Sure I do- nothing makes me more frustrated to see some young person with two sets of underwear showing, baseball cap on backwards, tattoo's that if put on livestock for tracking would be insulting- then turn around and complain they can't get a job, especially using guttural street slang that simply won't work in a business environment.

But then as I watched these "street people" I realized a few things: 1)this is the kind of people that Jesus taught on the "Sermon on the Mount". 2)These are the kind of people who struggle just to stay alive- they don't have the extra energy for such things as an education, or to really better themselves. 3)To judge these people is wrong based on my perspective at the time. God had provided me with LOTS of education, with HIGH logical intelligence, and the ability to adapt to most situations.

While I do not like being bipolar- even achieving "normalcy" would be a great thing.

Think about that-I have to struggle to be NORMAL! Once you reach that level of maturity- or immaturity depending on your perspective its a whole lot easier to let people "slide".

Taking this to the logical conclusion based on my own history of sin? EVERYONE should be allowed into heaven except those who flat out refuse Christ. I mean every swinging Richard and every swinging Jane should be given as much slack, leeway, grace, forgiveness, mercy, and love as can be applied.

This means Hells Angels. Mobsters. Evil Dictators- all should be judged by Christ who will judge fairly. Because if I judge while I may disagree with them my disagreement with them is still less than my need for Christ's grace and mercy- so yeah, even the bad guys get a free pass.

Can you be a Christian and a practising homosexual and still be saved?

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