Can You At Least Admit that The Act is Wrong?

[Brennin]

Compound words do not necessarily derive their meaning from the meaning of their component words.

To understand has noting to do with standing or having dangled above ones head.
Chairman is neither a man transformed into a chair or a chair sculpted to look like a person.

koitLs is in reference to a bed, not specifically carnal relations. Worse for koitLs is feminine (i know gnedered words are strange ot me too) …so therefore it is a female or woman’s bed the man is in. making the claim of it maning homoseexual even more unlikely.

even ignoring the gender of the bed the man is in it is equally plausible to claim that the two root words for arsenokoités come together to mean a man who stays in bed thus meaning Paul is condemning the lazy.

The only reliable way to define a word is to analyze its use. The fact that writers contemporary to Paul were also using this word (even though rarely) indicates that Paul did not just make the word up nor did he created this word from combining words from the Septuagint. However writers contemporary to Paul did not use arsenokoités to mean homosexual. In fact the translators of the bible didn’t make arsenokoités mane homosexual in its other appearance in the new testament. Writers contemporary to Paul were using arsenokoités to mean a man purchases sex from a women…that is a man who employs prostiutes. (and thanks to the gender of the bed we can say it is a female prostute being employed.)

And the final nail in the coffin of arsenokoités being twisted to mean homosexual comes from the basic fact that ancient Greek had several well known words that meant homosexual and or homosexual relations, if Paul had wanted to specifically condemn homosexuals he would have used these well known words not an obscure word meaning, in modern vernacular “a John”

At what institution, with what instructor, and with what text did you study Ancient Greek?

 

[synger]

...I stake my life on the Word that is Jesus Christ and what He says about the committing of homosexual acts. dealing with the text and what God's Word says, are you ready to stand in judgment and maintain that stance?

If you are the man of God you say you are, you're not going to let your eternal soul hinge upon what you think instead of what God says.

So either you are a man of God and still open to receive the truth of His Word, or you have become so self-centered that God has given you over to a reprobate mind.

There is no man of God who can stake his eternal salvation on something that runs counter to God's Word without being convicted by the Holy Spirit to see the error of the confusing web he would have to spin to make his way right over God's way.


I ain't interpreted anything. I've told ya what God's Word says. I don't play the whole interpretation game. I'll tell you what God says, and if you want to rest your eternal soul on somebody's interpretation...

The Bible says 3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

In reading these quotes, they disturbed me greatly. I think there is a real difference between where our salvation lies (in Christ alone, through His grace and mercy) and how we should then walk as Christians with the Spirit guiding and convicting us.

No one can "stake his salvation" or "rest his salvation" on what he does or does not do. That's the whole point of Christ's coming in the first place! We cannot earn Heaven by our works. Salvation is God's gracious, good gift to us, through Christ.

Do Christians live in sin? Yes, but we are also made righteous by God's grace... even as the Spirit works in our lives to sanctify and make us holy in our daily interactions.

A person's salvation does not hinge on whether he is sinless. He is not. None of us are. Our salvation rests on nothing less than Jesus' blood and His righteousness.

 

[MrPirate]

Too bad you didn;t like em that's your problem

Why not just admit you didn’t and move on?

 

[Zaac]

In reading these quotes, they disturbed me greatly. I think there is a real difference between where our salvation lies (in Christ alone, through His grace and mercy) and how we should then walk as Christians with the Spirit guiding and convicting us.

No one can "stake his salvation" or "rest his salvation" on what he does or does not do. That's the whole point of Christ's coming in the first place! We cannot earn Heaven by our works. Salvation is God's gracious, good gift to us, through Christ.

Unfortunately there are hundreds of millions of Muslims and Catholics who do this very thing. So what would lead us to think that some do not rest their salvation on their need to be in the type of relationship they want and dismissing God because His Word does not give them carte blanche to live as they want?

A person's salvation does not hinge on whether he is sinless. He is not. None of us are. Our salvation rests on nothing less than Jesus' blood and His righteousness.

This is not what I said or what I was talking about.

 

[imind]

Too bad you didn;t like em that's your problem

there is nothing to like or dislike, as they don't exist. again, if i have overlooked them, please point them out.

Why not just admit you didn’t and move on?

this is probably more accurate, and i don't understand why someone would not tell the truth about what he/she has posted, as anyone can simply review the thread.

 

[synger]

...

koitLs is in reference to a bed, not specifically carnal relations. Worse for koitLs is feminine (i know gnedered words are strange ot me too) …so therefore it is a female or woman’s bed the man is in. making the claim of it maning homoseexual even more unlikely.

... Writers contemporary to Paul were using arsenokoités to mean a man purchases sex from a women…that is a man who employs prostiutes. (and thanks to the gender of the bed we can say it is a female prostute being employed.)

Just an aside -- it is my understanding that when using language with grammatical gender, the gender of a noun has nothing whatsoever to do with who owns or uses the item. If in Greek the noun for bed is feminine, it remains a feminine word whether it is a man's bed, a woman's bed, or a dog's bed.

 

[BAFRIEND]

See what you're up against Zaac? MrPirate actually equates engaging in homosexual acts with being black.

You are learning some Liberal Truths today. For example...


Liberal Truth #7 - If you think someone is sinning, it means that you either HATE him, or secretly desire to do what he is doing



You might be interested in a complete listing of Liberal Truths that we have compiled from this Forum. If so, refer to:
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35604950&postcount=412

Unoriginal and boring claim against an opponent in a debate forum:

label them a racist.

The fact of the matter is, regardless if your opponent is a racist or not is besides the point. it just makes one look foolish for attempting such an obvious and transparent tactic.

Archie Bunker may have been a racist, that does not change the fact that Rob Riener is a meathead.

So regardless if I am a racist or not, that does not take anything away from the fact that a homosexual orientation is confusion or a bio defect or that leading a gay lifestyle is a sin.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Just an aside -- it is my understanding that when using language with grammatical gender, the gender of a noun has nothing whatsoever to do with who owns or uses the item. If in Greek the noun for bed is feminine, it remains a feminine word whether it is a man's bed, a woman's bed, or a dog's bed.

Maybe Mr Pirate does not have a Phd afterall ?

 

[Brennin]

Maybe Mr Pirate does not have a Phd afterall ?

If he does, it is not in Greek.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Just an aside -- it is my understanding that when using language with grammatical gender, the gender of a noun has nothing whatsoever to do with who owns or uses the item. If in Greek the noun for bed is feminine, it remains a feminine word whether it is a man's bed, a woman's bed, or a dog's bed.

I’m stretching to remember my languages here. I think the difference is between a known that is gendered and a gendered noun
I understand what you are saying but I don’t think the translation in question is specifically a gendered known, rather I think the word is made feminine by a modifier within the word. English uses external modifiers to indicate ownership. Hers, his, theirs, its, meaning to designate a woman’s bed we modify the noun with a possessive, making it ‘her bed’ from what I am reading the modifier is internal making the word not generated (though that is an accurate description) but rather possessive. Arsenokoites (sp?) still is a man bedding down in a woman’s bed though I can’t say is if a woman or if the modifier is referring to something soft or hedonistic, thus making the notation that Paul is condemning the lazy well and accurate.

 

[MercyBurst]

3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

I see all these threads on homosexuality. Is there a homosexual on this board who, regardless of how you think you were born, can agree with God's Word about the committing of homosexual ACTS?

There's an ex-gay on this sub-forum that agrees it is sin. Other than that, I don't think any of the gay-affirmers believe it is sin. Some have gone as far as saying it's sinless perfection and a gift from God.

By the way, the bible never made a distinction between homosexual and bisexual. The bible condemns the act itself.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

There's an ex-gay on this sub-forum that agrees it is sin. Other than that, I don't think any of the gay-affirmers believe it is sin. Some have gone as far as saying it's sinless perfection and a gift from God.

By the way, the bible never made a distinction between homosexual and bisexual. The bible condemns the act itself.

I believe aforementioned "Exgay" is still attracted to men, thus the term "Exgay" is being used loosely. Now back to the original persecution er I mean program.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

There's an ex-gay on this sub-forum that agrees it is sin. Other than that, I don't think any of the gay-affirmers believe it is sin. Some have gone as far as saying it's sinless perfection and a gift from God.

By the way, the bible never made a distinction between homosexual and bisexual. The bible condemns the act itself.

I do not recall "sinless perfection."

However - "gift from God" is the Truth.

 

[DMagoh]

I believe aforementioned "Exgay" is still attracted to men, thus the term "Exgay" is being used loosely. Now back to the original persecution er I mean program.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with "1" being 100% gay and "10" being 100% heterosexual, the aforementioned exgay has moved from a "1" to a "7", and he is continuing to move in that direction; he will continue to do so as he continues to no longer try to meet legitimate needs in an illegitimate way.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I do not recall "sinless perfection."

However - "gift from God" is the Truth.

Actually no, that is called Blasphemy, as it attributes something to God's credit,
that He has called sin and is accursed, when the source is actually from our
adversary and God's adversary. It is a lie, from the father of lies.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I believe aforementioned "Exgay" is still attracted to men, thus the term "Exgay" is being used loosely. Now back to the original persecution er I mean program.

Satan, our adversary ALWAYS tempts in areas he has had power over us before. Homosexuality is no different. I wouldn't expect LESS to occur, when one denounces their previous sin and comes into agreement with the Lord. You don't think the enemy just sits back and says, "okay cool, he turned that over to God, so I'll just leave him alone."

No, if you understand that satan's only purposes as a thief, are to kill, steal and destroy, then you understand that there will be trials and testing in this area by satan. He will send the spirit of perversion, who was there before, who he was delivered from, to see if he can find and entry so that if he does he can bring in 7 more demons more powerful than the first and try to overtake him.

He has come to the knowledge of truth and is in agreement with God and has chosen to turn away from his sin. He has been delivered, and is no longer under the veil of lies he once was. As long as he is sober and vigilant and aware that satan is as a roaring lion, walking about seeking whom he may devour and he stands firm, fixed and immovable, eventually the adversary will grow bored and his temptations will be few and far between until eventually he is an overcomer and a victor, no longer tempted in this area.

That is the POWER of the work of the cross given to us through Christ no matter what area we may have a struggle, whether it be drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, compulsive lying whatever it is.

 

[Zaac]

I do not recall "sinless perfection."

However - "gift from God" is the Truth.

Straight blasphemous.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Actually no, that is called Blasphemy, as it attributes something to God's credit,
that He has called sin and is accursed, when the source is actually from our
adversary and God's adversary. It is a lie, from the father of lies.

How can blessing be blasphemy?

 

[Zaac]

How can blessing be blasphemy?

You tell us cause either God is lying or you are confused.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

On a scale of 1 to 10, with "1" being 100% gay and "10" being 100% heterosexual, the aforementioned exgay has moved from a "1" to a "7", and he is continuing to move in that direction; he will continue to do so as he continues to no longer try to meet legitimate needs in an illegitimate way.

Wow.

Just... wow.