Can we talk about ADHD... and such ?

[RamiC]

Are mental illnesses somehow less medical than physical diseases?

When you say "mental illness" I assume you mean a disease of the mind. What, in modern scientific terms, is the mind?

All "physical" diseases actually refer to some body part or biological system that can be seen and tested with objective scientific methods.
The contents of DSM-V predominantly do not, they refer to a body part which does not physically exist, the mind, and there is no objective means by which a "normal mind" has been identified.

"misdiagnosis rates reached 65.9% for major depressive disorder, 92.7% for bipolar disorder, 85.8% for panic disorder, 71.0% for generalized anxiety disorder, and 97.8% for social anxiety disorder."

"Consumers" may be perplexed as to why providers using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-Edition 5) sometimes can't match the criteria listed with distinct mental disorders...

However, a key factor may be the limited time period that most people with mental health problems have with providers. Most complicated mental diagnostic categories require long-term interaction with the client and the ability to pick up on nuances in behavior and recollections.

Unfortunately, many clients don't know the specific language to use that reflects the medical criteria in the DSM, and so medical symptoms are sometimes not communicated clearly. Furthermore, many symptoms of mental health conditions overlap." from here No Shame On U — The Misdiagnosis of Severe Mental Health Disorders

These numbers are huge, they are error rates, and they exist because there is a significant lack of science applicable to "mental health" compared to all other medical problems. So, less medical or not, there is a big problem with objectivity in diagnosis and therefore any effective help, while the patients continue to suffer and be at risk of real harm.

Please note - to all who have mental health problems - do not suddenly stop taking your medication, if you wish to cease taking it, get proffessional help, I believe your suffering is real, and I do not mean that you just lack faith. Whatever you are living with or in, Jesus cares.

 

[Fervent]

So many claim the condition, that its occurrence is almost expected.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I am not opposed to medicine.

Ok

Mental conditions are not always physiological.

There's always a physiological element to them. And the treatment is between the patients and their doctors.

 

[Fervent]

When you say "mental illness" I assume you mean a disease of the mind. What, in modern scientific terms, is the mind?

There's certainly more to it than is often admitted, but there's always some brain dysfunction that is present in mental illnesses.

All "physical" diseases actually refer to some body part or biological system that can be seen and tested with objective scientific methods.
The contents of DSM-V predominantly do not, they refer to a body part which does not physically exist, the mind, and there is no objective means by which a "normal mind" has been identified.'

The mind is very closely associated with the brain, which is a physical organ.

"misdiagnosis rates reached 65.9% for major depressive disorder, 92.7% for bipolar disorder, 85.8% for panic disorder, 71.0% for generalized anxiety disorder, and 97.8% for social anxiety disorder."

"Consumers" may be perplexed as to why providers using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-Edition 5) sometimes can't match the criteria listed with distinct mental disorders...

However, a key factor may be the limited time period that most people with mental health problems have with providers. Most complicated mental diagnostic categories require long-term interaction with the client and the ability to pick up on nuances in behavior and recollections.

Unfortunately, many clients don't know the specific language to use that reflects the medical criteria in the DSM, and so medical symptoms are sometimes not communicated clearly. Furthermore, many symptoms of mental health conditions overlap." from here No Shame On U — The Misdiagnosis of Severe Mental Health Disorders

How were those numbers arrived at, and what characterized 'misdiagnosis"?

These numbers are huge, they are error rates, and they exist because there is a significant lack of science applicable to "mental health" compared to all other medical problems. So, less medical or not, there is a big problem with objectivity in diagnosis and therefore any effective help, while the patients continue to suffer and be at risk of real harm.

Where did those numbers come from?

Please note - to all who have mental health problems - do not suddenly stop taking your medication, if you wish to cease taking it, get proffessional help, I believe your suffering is real, and I do not mean that you just lack faith. Whatever you are living with or in, Jesus cares.

You seem to be contradicting yourself with this, since the tone of the rest of your post seems to be in the vein of denying the reality of mental illness and the abilities of the professionals to properly treat it.

 

[RamiC]

There's certainly more to it than is often admitted, but there's always some brain dysfunction that is present in mental illnesses.

You have not provided any science based explanation as to what the mind is yet, and without any objective definition of "normal" there is no telling what functional verses dysfunctional is.

The mind is very closely associated with the brain, which is a physical organ.

If it is about the brain, it is neurology, but you are saying this association exists without an answer regarding what the "mind" that is associated with the brain is. A brain scan can show proof of strong emotion, we know this can also be seen in the form of chemical changes to the blood, but that does not make the shock of bereavement and experience of grief a brain dysfunction that needs to be called a "disease" and cured with a pill. So what I am saying is that brain activity is our lives on earth being lived, that is the scientific, medical, definition of life.

How were those numbers arrived at, and what characterized 'misdiagnosis"?

Where did those numbers come from?

There is a link in my post, to the article I was quoting, I provided my source.

You seem to be contradicting yourself with this, since the tone of the rest of your post seems to be in the vein of denying the reality of mental illness and the abilities of the professionals to properly treat it.

Oh I have questions about the success rates of treating many conditions that are called "mental health problems" yes. I just do not want anybody reading this thread to do anything too dangerous or sudden because of it. The fact that it is dangerous to suddenly stop taking mental health medication is known, the risk applies regardless of the poor rates of accurate diagnosis, inadequate pathology, the harm done by medicalising human emotional responses to life events, and the low rates of actually being able to cure any mental health condition (that is by comparison to Dr's ability to actually define, identify conditions, and provide cures in other medical specialties).

I care deeply about the entirely real sufferring, hence my concerns about the situation as it presently is, and my interest in the possibilties for accurate knowledge and effective solutions. I do not believe that all human suffering has to be "medical", physiological, or even identifiable by scientific methods to be absolutely real. There is a difference between believing that psychology and psychiatry are getting everything right, and caring about the increasing and already great amounts of mind related suffering people are clearly experiencing. As a society, I believe we must start defeating the high rates of mental and emotional struggles that are happening, I just do not see enough objective evidence that labels and psychoactive drugs are a safe or effective way to acheive that in a lot of cases.

Please note - to all who have mental health problems - do not suddenly stop taking your medication, if you wish to cease taking it, get proffessional help, I believe your suffering is real, and I do not mean that you just lack faith. Whatever you are living with or in, Jesus cares.