Can there be ADULTERY without sexual intercourse?

[LionDog1]

There is the Biblical word laciveousness - excessive lusts of the flesh. We have no instructions about any levels of fornication or adultery. I would say that we should use temperance and follow our conscience. "To the pure, all things are pure." We cannot answer for each other.

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell."

Jesus had just said, verse 17 in that same chapter "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven........."

So he was not adding to, taking away, or changing the Law of Moses in verse 27. Some say that he was giving the Jews a new law (his law)........ inducing guilt where Jesus did not attend it, but that is not what he was doing. Jesus was speaking to Jews, reminding them what was in the Law of Moses.

Lust and covet are translated from the same word. It means a strong desire of any kind, either good or bad. It means to want something that belongs to another. Something that we have no lawful right to have.

Jesus was actually reinforcing the 10th commandment, "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife." It had nothing to do with a man looking at women in admiration, or maybe looking for a wife.

The total commandment reads

Exodus 10:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."

A person can admire their neighbor's car; his neighbor's wife, or anything else that belongs to his neighbor without wanting to possess it.

The best representation so far!

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Would you find nothing wrong with being married to someone who spent time passionately kissing another man?

In church, if everybody was doing it, I might not mind. I think I'd have to try it to know for sure.

 

[LionDog1]

So apparently the consensus so far in this thread is that adultery is necessarily predicated on sexual activity. A woman can leave her husband for, let's say a man who is physically unable to have sex, and that is not adultery?

No. All adultery is predicated on the thought. Who ever committed any transgression without thought? Thought, Willful intention, then Action.

 

[jj3pa]

Looking at a women with lust is adultery and a mortal sin (if you don't know what that is I would be happy to explain), however looking at women and thinking wow she is beautiful isn't looking at a woman with lust. Thinking a woman is beautiful is a natural concept and she is a creation of God and like all of God's creations, it is good to notice their beauty even if you take a another look. Now when you get on the lines of looking at the woman and thinking of what you would do to her and starting to imagine having sex or sexual activities with her is when you fall into the sin of adultery.

Nowhere in the Catholic catechism is adultery of the mind considered a mortal sin. The catechism is much more vague about such things (see p 454 and 455). There are three requirements listed in that document for a sin to be a mortal sin , you don't need to explain.

By the that same document anyone that is divorced and remarried has committed adultery, and by your definition has committed a mortal sin.

 

[Numenorian]

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭

Sounds like what you're doing, Mr. Henderickson.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

“Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭

Sounds like what you're doing, Mr. Henderickson.

True this, and I think I'm going to drop out now based on Titus 3:9.
"But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."

What if they do THIS but not THAT? OK, but how about THIS? Where is the line drawn? What about a quarter of a millimeter off of that line? Would that be OK?

Getting silly.

 

[Wryetui]

If we think only sexual intercourse with other than your spouse when someone is married is adultery we are far away from understanding our faith.

Adultery is obeying our lustful desires instead of God's. We made a vow and a pact before God when we were married and we decide to break it by following our desires, cheating on our spouses. It doesn't matter if it's the whole intercourse or just with a thought, because both express the disordered desire to go against God in our hearts.

 

[Goatee]

If we think only sexual intercourse with other than your spouse when someone is married is adultery we are far away from understanding our faith.

Adultery is obeying our lustful desires instead of God's. We made a vow and a pact before God when we were married and we decide to break it by following our desires, cheating on our spouses. It doesn't matter if it's the whole intercourse or just with a thought, because both express the disordered desire to go against God in our hearts.

I have failed at this but aim to mend my ways massively!

 

[TastyWallet]

You should avoid doing anything that even have the appearance of adultery, especially if you are interested in honoring God with your body. This includes sexual touching, conscious thoughts about sexual things not involving your spouse (lust), riding alone in the car with a member of the opposite sex, certain types of kissing (depending on culture), eating out alone with the member of the opposite sex, and (if you own a business) hiring someone attractive to help them out.

While the last three are not strictly adultery, they are typically where adultery starts. You've no doubt seen movies where, for example, a married man goes out to dinner, alone, with his attractive co-worker. You already know what will happen next. Are these extreme? If you want to protect the integrity of your marriage, I don't think they are. Of course, sometimes these things are unavoidable. In that case, you should call your spouse and let them know what's going on.

Of course, if you have little to no interest in honoring God with your body, it's merely an intellectual exercise for you.

 

[Just Ben]

<Staff Edit>
One cannot simply cherry pick the gospel.
Lust starts in the heart. To even have impure thoughts about another mans wife is a sin. I am a strong advocate for the "bounce the eyes method"; that especially true for single men.
All throughout the bible we see how lust has destroyed men's lives. Even to kiss another mans wife is to destroy your own life. The book of 2 Peter paints a picture of Christians that are not following God but rather mans own heart.
As Christians we read our scripture daily as compass to our own lies.
This type of question is questioning whether man's law is above God's law. If you want to know if your for or against Jesus then ask yourself one question. Are you keeping God's commandments? We must follow God's rule in our lives and not listen to anybody else; no do not even fillow your own ways. Reject yourself and what you know; empty your heart and mind of everything worldly and let God fill you up with rightious truth. Do not be confused or deceived by culture. As Christians we are to be on fire to show the world our light.

Definition of lust according to Jesus is to even think lustful thoughts. Learn to bounce your eyes off of the things that cause you to be tempted. If you truly love Jesus you will follow Him and not the worldly culture. Please read the whole book of 2Peter.

 

[BukiRob]

How does one know for sure that one is not transgressing the important Commandment against adultery? <Staff Edit>

But what are we to make of Matthew 5:28? (Jesus said): "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

How is "lust" to be defined here? Surely one would have to actually WANT TO, nay, INTEND TO commit actual adultery for the "lust" to even begin to rise to the level of the actual act? (In parallel with the warning just prior that hating one's brother may lead to murder, so one should avoid it.)
One might do a lot of kissing and touching without any such intent - not only not to ever transgress the Commandment but to avoid any concerns about pregnancy and diseases.
And one could certainly "play around" without coveting, without wanting to make another person's spouse one's own.

Lust and desire are NOT the same thing. Lust is an obsessive longing.

Adultery is sexual intercourse where at least 1 of the persons involved is married. If it is 2 single people it is fornication.

Yeshua was driving at the HEART of the Law not merely the letter of the law. This is why he often railed against the religious leadership in Jerusalem over their misguided understanding of the Torah. Recall him asking the pharisee's if it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath and reminded them that. Luke 14:5 And He said to them, "Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?"

A man and woman who are married are "echad" one flesh. Any romantic gestures any physically intimate activity with one not your spouse is sin.

 

[GracielaAlexandraa]

<Staff Edit>
That's an awesome question! I firmly believe that infidelity is not limited to only being "physical". When you say "I do" - you've promised your spouse that place in your mind, heart, and soul. No one else.

God designed marriage to be a direct reflection of His relationship with us. And I don't know about you - but there are times I play with the "grey" areas with sin knowing that God is very much black and white when it comes to sin.

 

[BukiRob]

One cannot simply cherry pick the gospel.
Lust starts in the heart. To even have impure thoughts about another mans wife is a sin. I am a strong advocate for the "bounce the eyes method"; that especially true for single men.
All throughout the bible we see how lust has destroyed men's lives. Even to kiss another mans wife is to destroy your own life. The book of 2 Peter paints a picture of Christians that are not following God but rather mans own heart.
As Christians we read our scripture daily as compass to our own lies.
This type of question is questioning whether man's law is above God's law. If you want to know if your for or against Jesus then ask yourself one question. Are you keeping God's commandments? We must follow God's rule in our lives and not listen to anybody else; no do not even fillow your own ways. Reject yourself and what you know; empty your heart and mind of everything worldly and let God fill you up with rightious truth. Do not be confused or deceived by culture. As Christians we are to be on fire to show the world our light.

Definition of lust according to Jesus is to even think lustful thoughts. Learn to bounce your eyes off of the things that cause you to be tempted. If you truly love Jesus you will follow Him and not the worldly culture. Please read the whole book of 2Peter.

Again, you make the mistake of calling attraction and desire as lust and that is not true. That is NOT what lust is.

Lust is an obsessive longing or obsessive desire.

It pushes an unattainable standard ESPECIALLY for single males. G-d created men with a very strong sex drive. Some men have a lesser drive and other a stronger drive. To pile guilt on a single man because he responds the way G-d created him when an attractive female walks by is WRONG.

A married man has no business acting in anyway on any attraction he may have towards another woman. To suggest that being married means that you are no longer physically attracted to the opposite sex is lunacy.

To act upon that, to obsess over a woman IS wrong. To be physically attracted to is a natural reaction.

Stimuli = result unless you are in the grave. If I hit your thumb with a hammer 100% of the time you will react to that. When a stunning woman walks by you will physically react to that and to suggest you dont is to deny the truth. What you DO with that reaction is the issue

 

[BukiRob]

That's an awesome question! I firmly believe that infidelity is not limited to only being "physical". When you say "I do" - you've promised your spouse that place in your mind, heart, and soul. No one else.

God designed marriage to be a direct reflection of His relationship with us. And I don't know about you - but there are times I play with the "grey" areas with sin knowing that God is very much black and white when it comes to sin.

Yes, marriage is to be an earthly picture of the marriage between Messiah and his ekklesia.

The problem I have with much of what I am reading here and MOST of it from single people is that once you are married biology ceases to act the way it did when you were single and this is both DANGEROUS and a LIE.

Certainly without question ANY physical intimacy is a sin unless it is with your spouse when you are married, PERIOD.

But to suggest that your husband is not going to have a physical biological reaction to an attractive female is LUNACY. To suggest that a woman is likewise not going to have a physical reaction to the opposite sex is equally absurd.

YOU SET YOURSELF UP FOR AN UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION!

It is not the reaction or biological response that is the problem... it is WHAT the person does with the reaction or biological response. G-d created man (both sexes) to react to certain things about the opposite sex and to pretend that marriage somehow turns those things off is sheer stupidity. It is entirely about how a man or a woman reacts to someone they find attractive that is either a sin or not a sin.

If you try to lay on your spouse what I think I am reading your views to be you will be frustrated and LIKELY end up in a divorce.

 

[BukiRob]

72, or 3. I don't much like to keep track.

That is an interesting CATHOLIC (perhaps) idea of "one flesh." I don't think it is truly scriptural, truly in agreement with what St Paul says about how the husband's body is the wive's, and vice versa.
I think it is the mating, the joining up of MALE AND FEMALE that Jesus refers to - the original idea of God. [I wanted to highlight this; guess I don't know how to do that yet.]

On "holy kiss," depends on what you think makes A KISS A HOLY KISS. I think doing in in church might be a move in that direction. And THE MORE IT IS A KISS OF LOVE THE BETTER, in accord with Holy Writ.
The longer the kiss the MORE LOVING it is, in my humble opinion.

Actually one flesh is correct. The hebrew word used in Genesis is ECHAD and it means one (singular. It can mean the number 1 and it means in complete agreement to be one accord)

 

[Goatee]

Then action, or no action. Your "predicated on the thought" and "committed any transgression" indicates the action is what really counts. What if there is no action "then," what if the person changes their mind?

If the action has been committed in your thoughts then it is still a sin!

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Yes, marriage is to be an earthly picture of the marriage between Messiah and his ekklesia.
Certainly without question ANY physical intimacy is a sin unless it is with your spouse when you are married, PERIOD.

Is that what the commandment says, "Do not commit ANY physical intimacy"? Does "adultery" mean ANY physical intimacy? Not in my dictionary. The Christ "explanation" if we call it that referred to the mind (heart) - it does not seem at all to expand the range of activity that constitutes adultery.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

But it would be coveting someone who belonged to another. So you break the tenth commandment! How many men would spend time kissing another mans wife without having any form of lust rise up in them? Seems to me you may be trying to justify breaking commandments

My dictionary says "coveting" means long to possess something that belongs to someone else. Couldn't one kiss a lot without wanting to be married to the other person, that is take him/her to be one's OWN SPOUSE?

 

[Tree of Life]

Mind defining "sexual indecency"?

Sexual indecency is whatever is displeasing to God concerning sexual behavior (including thinking and desiring). Generally speaking, any sexual activity not with a spouse or directed toward a spouse is displeasing to God.

 

[BukiRob]

Is that what the commandment says, "Do not commit ANY physical intimacy"? Does "adultery" mean ANY physical intimacy? Not in my dictionary. The Christ "explanation" if we call it that referred to the mind (heart) - it does not seem at all to expand the range of activity that constitutes adultery.

Yeshua makes a distinction between the LETTER of the law which is what you describe and what the Jews were doing at the time, while ignoring the HEART of the commandment.

What he is trying to get at is that just because you do not have sexual relations but indeed do other things you can not say that you have not violated the commandment.

The only distinction I am trying to get people to see is to NOT confuse what is a natural response to the opposite sex and what is or is not a sin. I see FAR too many trying to say that desire and lust are the same thing. THEY ARE NOT