Can the Investigative Judgement doctrine be explained without reference EGW?

[mva1985]

Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

 

[mva1985]

I see that there has been no real honest inquiry about the IJ in this thread.

It has been a farce from the original post.

 

[StormyOne]

I see that there has been no real honest inquiry about the IJ in this thread.

It has been a farce from the original post.

only in your opinion... however because you "believe" in the IJ is there anything anyone can say to convince you otherwise? I don't think so....

 

[Mankin]

Now a follow up to my original question.

If I have an ongoing relationship with Jesus and living the Christian life and daily confessing and asking forgiveness of sin does the Investigative Judgement really make any difference to me? I don't see it as necessary to my salvation.

Because it's not. It's not necessary to your salvation. I only have a limited knowledge of the IJ but I still find one major fault with it. Why would a God who knew us before we were formed in the womb need to check over our record again on sins that should have been removed as far as east from west.

 

[mva1985]

The investigative judgment is NOT for God's benefit. Are you so dense that you can not see this?

 

[Mankin]

Be glad I'm not woob or that would've been reported. For our benefit?! Oh yes, just as the perfection theology is for OUR benefit. What has going over our record again have to do with our benefit but make us feel more nervous.

 

[mva1985]

Be glad I'm not woob or that would've been reported. For our benefit?! Oh yes, just as the perfection theology is for OUR benefit. What has going over our record again have to do with our benefit but make us feel more nervous.

If the post had been directed at you I would have quoted you. I purposely did not do that. Forgive me for not thanking you.

There are other beings in this universe then those on our small little planet.

 

[Sophia7]

Now a follow up to my original question.

If I have an ongoing relationship with Jesus and living the Christian life and daily confessing and asking forgiveness of sin does the Investigative Judgement really make any difference to me? I don't see it as necessary to my salvation.

No, it's not necessary to your salvation.

 

[Mankin]

If the post had been directed at you I would have quoted you. I purposely did not do that. Forgive me for not thanking you.

There are other beings in this universe then those on our small little planet.

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Bourbaki]

Can the Investigative Judgement doctrine be explained without reference EGW?

Most certainly. There are many excellent commentaries on Christ's Investigative Judgment parables. Matthew 25:14-30, Luke 19:11-27.
See http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2376.htm

 

[Airdude]

I see that there has been no real honest inquiry about the IJ in this thread.

It has been a farce from the original post.

The investigative judgment is NOT for God's benefit. Are you so dense that you can not see this?

This is the kind of attitude that makes it difficult to stay with this church. Thankfully I do know that everyone in the church is not this arrogant or judgemental.

I do appreciate the many other honest helpful posts.
Thank you

 

[tall73]

I see that there has been no real honest inquiry about the IJ in this thread.

It has been a farce from the original post.

When I tried honest inquiry it was said that I was leading people astray, etc.

Honest inquiry and discussion is going on all the time. But some folks call it heresy if you don't wind up agreeing with the church's position.

 

[Airdude]

I can only imagine what the responses would look like if this question were to be posted in the traditional forum.

 

[StormyOne]

I can only imagine what the responses would look like if this question were to be posted in the traditional forum.

scary thought huh?

 

[mva1985]

This is the kind of attitude that makes it difficult to stay with this church. Thankfully I do know that everyone in the church is not this arrogant or judgemental.

I do appreciate the many other honest helpful posts.
Thank you

Airdude,

I usually do not need to "come off" this way and usually don't. I am not trying to be arrogant.

Yesterday I made the offer that anyone that was interested to please PM me and I would get links to them about the IJ. As of right now NO ONE has taken me up on that offer.

So if someone was a true seeker and wanted to examine both sides of the issue I would imagine that I would have received a message by now, but not yet.

 

[tall73]

I guess I am wondering why you can't put the other side in this thread?

 

[Airdude]

Airdude,

I usually do not need to "come off" this way and usually don't. I am not trying to be arrogant.

Yesterday I made the offer that anyone that was interested to please PM me and I would get links to them about the IJ. As of right now NO ONE has taken me up on that offer.

So if someone was a true seeker and wanted to examine both sides of the issue I would imagine that I would have received a message by now, but not yet.

mva1985, Sorry to be so slow in asking. I have sent you a pm to recieve your links.
Thanks

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was born and raised SDA. Educated mostly in SDA schools and always took the church teachings as truth. After college I went my own way in the world for a while and came back about 14 years ago. I have had a real up and down relationship with the church since that time. I have heard the Investigative Judgement presented many times, but never without having to rely on EGW. Dosn't the Bible alone provide all the guidence we need for salvation? Salvation is supposed to be simple eneough for a child to understand. Can I as an SDA know that I have salvation? How discouraging is it if I can't know that I have salvation and that atonement for my sin was completed at the cross!

I don't intend any disrespect. I am just trying to understand.

Subscribing.......


.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Now a follow up to my original question.

If I have an ongoing relationship with Jesus and living the Christian life and daily confessing and asking forgiveness of sin does the Investigative Judgement really make any difference to me? I don't see it as necessary to my salvation.

I also have confusion and doubt regarding this particular doctrine. I think it may have merit in a broader sense, but not in a particular sense. Meaning, it's good to acknowledge that the universe does not in fact revolve around us nor is God harsh, arbitrary, and unable to explain to us about our lives on earth and the plan of salvation. However, it may not be good to say that everything we do is recorded, scrutinized, and judged in every particular either by God or anyone else. It also may not be good to say that there is an actual Sanctuary in heaven which functions like the OT Sanctuary where Jesus has to actually be in one place or another place or atonement starts at 1844 or whatever. These ideas are heavily based in OT study and almost seem to depend on a perfectionist view of salvation. The NT does have parables, but parables are not actuals - they are stories to better understand a main theme. Overall, I do not think it is necessary to agree with or understand this doctrine for the purposes of salvation. Salvation is made freely available to anyone who truly loves the Lord. We may Judge God's righteousness someday, but He has already deemed us righteous through Jesus. And Jesus promised to be with us always, even until the end. So if He is in a particular place in the Sanctuary doing Priestly things, the Sanctuary and God's throne must have wheels - because He promised to be with us.

 

[Ubuntu]

It's not certain the OP of this thread will read this, as it's a very old thread, but the doctrine of the investigative judgment (IJ) is always relevant to adventists, so I'll share a few thoughts.

First of all, rest assured that all our doctrines soon will be tested with fire, and any doctrines that cannot be fully defended from the bible alone will soon enough prove to be “wood, hay or straw”.
1 Corinthians 3:12-13.

Of course the official position is that the IJ indeed can be proved by letting the Bible be its own interpreter. In contrast to the traditionalists' stance, there is a minority in our Church who have doubts about various parts of the IJ, and some even reject it altogether.

Disturbingly, there are people who have left the Church because they cannot reconcile our official theology with the Biblical evidence. Some of them go on to reject not only the doctrine of the IJ, but also other vital parts of the adventist faith as a result of this.

I think the problem with the most famous critics of the IJ, is that generally they leave people theologically stranded. They might demonstrate weaknesses in the orthodox position, but they don't provide any new insights that will take adventists further. Instead people are left with the feeling that the advent awakening in the 1840's was based on a delusion, and that Ellen White cannot be trusted. In other words, what are the fruits of their efforts? These critics certainly aren't strengthening the adventist church, quite the opposite.

* * *

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that the orthodox position is infallible. Allow me to draw the attention to another discussion... Before Jesus started his public ministry, the Jews were generally waiting for the arrival of a mighty warrior king that would deliver them from the Roman yoke. Now, were the Jews mistaken when they believed in the coming of the Messiah? Not at all! But were their ideas about the nature of his ministry correct? Well, even the disciples had difficulties when it came to grasping the true nature of his kingdom, right?

I'd like to suggest that the discussion about the IJ is similar to the Jewish controversy about the Messiah. The Jews rightfully waited for the Messiah, but their ideas about the Messiah were far from infallible. In the same way prophecies were fulfilled in 1844, but we have much to learn (and unlearn) about these things, and about Jesus' ministry as our High Priest.