Can the holy spirit baptize without water?

Jun 16, 2011
14
3
✟15,159.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It really seems to me that God can baptize whomever he wishes without water and john the baptist did say that even though he was baptizing with water, jesus would baptize with the holy spirit.

is it really required for salvation if someone thinks that have the holy spirit in them?

isn't the holy spirit in everyone? I mean...isn't god guiding everyone? doesn't he want everyone to stop being blinded by disobedience and see the path he's created for them? god loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved.

back it up with scripture please
 
Last edited:

SoldierOfSoul

Senior Veteran
May 5, 2009
3,069
200
37
Narnia
✟12,809.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It really seems to me that God can baptize whomever he wishes without water and john the baptist did say that even though he was baptizing with water, jesus would baptize with the holy spirit.

Jesus told us to believe and be baptised (in water), so I would go with that.

isn't the holy spirit in everyone? I mean...

No.

isn't god guiding everyone? doesn't he want everyone to stop being blinded by disobedience and see the path he's created for them? god loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved.

There is an outward call of the gospel that is to everyone, but you must be given the gift of grace (which is the inward call) to have the ability to accept this offer of grace. Man in his nature is God's enemy and under His wrath. Man is not capable in himself to submit to the gospel and receive it in a saving way without the providence and working of the Holy Spirit within, man to be saved, must be born again by the Spirit of Christ.
 
Upvote 0
Jun 16, 2011
14
3
✟15,159.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Jesus told us to believe and be baptised (in water), so I would go with that.



No.



There is an outward call of the gospel that is to everyone, but you must be given the gift of grace (which is the inward call) to have the ability to accept this offer of grace. Man in his nature is God's enemy and under His wrath. Man is not capable in himself to submit to the gospel and receive it in a saving way without the providence and working of the Holy Spirit within, man to be saved, must be born again by the Spirit of Christ.

No offense or anything but your answers, without scripture, are just opinion, to me, and actually very offensive in that you would assume that a plain "no" would be an appropriate answer for anyone seeking answers, as if you think you're god.
 
Upvote 0
Jun 16, 2011
14
3
✟15,159.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Baptism is not required for salvation, however, faith is required. Christ commands that we be baptized. Faith demands obedience to Christ’s command.


jesus commands you to be baptized and yet you said baptism is not required.

so it is required but it's not required...WHAT?
 
Upvote 0
Jun 16, 2011
14
3
✟15,159.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No.



There is an outward call of the gospel that is to everyone, but you must be given the gift of grace (which is the inward call) to have the ability to accept this offer of grace. Man in his nature is God's enemy and under His wrath. Man is not capable in himself to submit to the gospel and receive it in a saving way without the providence and working of the Holy Spirit within, man to be saved, must be born again by the Spirit of Christ.

jesus said that BEFORE he died for our sins...explain. that makes it seems as if his death was not enough.

it makes no sense that not everyone has the holy spirit in him, whatever amount. we were all created for god, therefore, god is always in us and with us, no matter what...unless we die, which doesn't really count because we're dead. god IS the holy spirit.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfSoul

Senior Veteran
May 5, 2009
3,069
200
37
Narnia
✟12,809.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No offense or anything but your answers, without scripture, are just opinion, to me, and actually very offensive in that you would assume that a plain "no" would be an appropriate answer for anyone seeking answers, as if you think you're god.

Really I have no idea what kind of strange doctrine you are proposing. You must be baptised, plain and simple because the Word of God and Jesus Himself says so:

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

"So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days." (Acts 10:48)

"For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." (1 Cor. 12:13)

"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3)

Baptism is an outward sign of an inward work of the Holy Spirit, when we are born again through faith, we are given a new nature (the nature of Christ). After this one time event (being born again that is) we are to reckon our old nature (the old sinful man) dead and this is what baptism represents. We are buried (in baptism) and raised up into new life (as a sign) to the spiritual and physical reality of the finished work of Christ on those who believe.

"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." (Romans 6:4)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jun 16, 2011
14
3
✟15,159.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There is an outward call of the gospel that is to everyone, but you must be given the gift of grace (which is the inward call) to have the ability to accept this offer of grace. Man in his nature is God's enemy and under His wrath. Man is not capable in himself to submit to the gospel and receive it in a saving way without the providence and working of the Holy Spirit within, man to be saved, must be born again by the Spirit of Christ.

It's sad that you have to be given the "gift of grace" to have the ability to be saved.

Does God hate everyone that doesn't believe? or that is trying to be a god, themselves?

so I may or may not be saved in my lifetime? I have to live with the fact that God has to call me to Him and that he might not give me the gift of grace and essentially be without god for the rest of eternity? (serious questions)
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfSoul

Senior Veteran
May 5, 2009
3,069
200
37
Narnia
✟12,809.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's sad that you have to be given the "gift of grace" to have the ability to be saved.

Does God hate everyone that doesn't believe? or that is trying to be a god, themselves?

so I may or may not be saved in my lifetime? I have to live with the fact that God has to call me to Him and that he might not give me the gift of grace and essentially be without god for the rest of eternity? (serious questions)

Although we cannot come to God without His drawing, we may come without fear of rejection:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (John 6:37)

Jesus clearly states here that if we truly and sincerely come to Him to be saved (in the biblical sense) He will not cast us out.

This does not mean all WILL come, it does mean that all who DO come are promised salvation if they believe.

Truly salvation is the Father's will:

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40)

But only HE knows WHO will be saved and this grace comes only through Him, the Spirit's working alone can show you the need of Jesus Christ in your life and for your eternal soul:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44)
 
Upvote 0

heron

Legend
Mar 24, 2005
19,439
962
✟33,756.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
It's sad that you have to be given the "gift of grace" to have the ability to be saved.

Does God hate everyone that doesn't believe? or that is trying to be a god, themselves?

so I may or may not be saved in my lifetime?
I think that by saying the gift of grace was a precursor, was meant to show that God approaches us to prepare us for the decision. We do not out-of-the-blue say "Hey, I think I'll be a Christian." There are reasonings, stirrings in our heart, ways that God reveals Himself to be real -- all of which build our confidence in making a decision to follow Him.

Keep building your knowledge about salvation by reading the words of Jesus. It is not Christians who make the decision of whether we are saved or not; if Jehovah is setting the terms, keep finding out what He said.

God made an offer to all, that we can either accept or reject. The gift of grace was offered once, for all people and all time. God is always gracious, but He determined that the price was paid for our righteousness.

Think in legal terms. Guilt, advocate, judge, price paid for freedom.

Baptism is a public declaration of faith. It is also a choice to be rinsed clean of our old ways, and to take on a new life. The baptism itself does not save us.

Think of engagement parties, where people announce their intent to wed. The party gathers friends and family to celebrate the announcement together. The party is not the marriage, or even the decision. It is the public statement.

There are many things you will find in scriptures, where God suggests a tangible declaration of intent. The celebrations like Passover, Pentecost and Channukah were solid reminders to people. The Sabbath was a concrete day where every citizen, visitor and farm animal was not allowed to work. Congregational worship and group fasts were solid statements of intent.

We humans like to think we will remember everything, and always act with good intent, but we tend to forget a lot. We even forget birthdays and anniversaries. We tell friends we will pray for them, and then don't.

Sometimes we just need someone to say, "You need baptism" to remind us to make firm decisions, and be willing to publicly state our faith and intent. Otherwise we will mush around in vague belief and indecision...saying we believe one day, and heading on a tangent the next. I think the baptism is for us, more than for our salvation.

Baptism is an outward sign of an inward work of the Holy Spirit,
 
Upvote 0

LWB

Regular Member
Jan 28, 2011
670
35
Brisbane
✟16,026.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't think there is any explicit scripture that states that water baptism is not necessary, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. But I feel safe in believing a water baptism is not essential for the salvation of an individual soul. I shall explain why:

The teachings of Jesus heavily emphasise the importance of inner purity over outward appearance. He criticised the Pharisees who were outwardly upright, but inwardly corrupt (Matthew 23:26).

Water baptism, along with partaking in the Lord's supper, are outward symbols of inner change. They point the way to the superior state of being entirely transformed spiritually, as opposed to the mere dunking in water and eating of bread which the body undergoes. Without the inner change, the outward rituals are useless.

As Christians gather together as a corporate entity to celebrate Christ, it is entirely fitting that the outward symbols are practiced. But for the individual believer, such as the thief on the cross, there is a higher Agent at work.

I believe conviction in the truth of Christ's teachings, repentance of sin, and the will to follow Jesus, allow the spiritual baptism to take place.

If the individual believer, having already made peace with God, wishes to join a Christian community, the symbols are on hand for this person to demonstrate their inner resolve. Through these symbols the Body can see the individual is indeed committed. So they aren't entirely superfluous, and perhaps why the issue never arose in the time of the early Church.

So to sum up, I think an outward symbol like water baptism is more of a statement to other believers, than to God. What is important to God is the inner resolve of the heart.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

heron

Legend
Mar 24, 2005
19,439
962
✟33,756.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
A little extra background might be helpful.

In the early days of the Law of Moses, priests performed ceremonial washings before entering the temple. They also made sure people with infection would wash away impurities. Cleansing had a mix of ritual spirituality and practical cleanliness.
Num. 19:1-22; Lev 14,15, 16:24-28

Before the Law was given, people sanctified themselves with water.
Ex 19:10

In Ezekiel 36:25, God speaks of cleansing His people.

There is evidence that close to Jesus' earthly ministry, Jews began immersion baptising seven days after a convert's circumcision, as a symbolic cleansing and renewal... a formal public statement of being part of the Jewish family of faith. The baptisms of John would have some nice parallel symbolism.

 
Upvote 0

A-FRIEND

Newbie
Jun 23, 2011
232
8
Music City, USA
✟15,410.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Water baptism is not important in the life of a Christian. We do not participate in old Jewish ceremonies. The key thing to remember is that Jesus never told anyone to do it. In the Great Commission, Jesus is talking about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Jesus never baptized anyone in water. (John 4:2) The Baptism of Christ is the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 3: 11) There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. (Ephesians 4: 5) Water baptism was not to be continued. (John 3:30 John’s baptism in water was replaced by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:5) The nature of the new covenant is spiritual, not ceremonial. (Colossians 2:16) Jesus was vicariously baptized in water for us. (Matthew 3: 13-17) Paul was not sent to baptize and thanks God he stopped doing it. (1 Corinthians 1: 14-17)
 
Upvote 0

LilLamb219

The Lamb is gone
Site Supporter
Jun 2, 2005
28,026
1,929
Visit site
✟83,596.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Water baptism is not important in the life of a Christian. We do not participate in old Jewish ceremonies. The key thing to remember is that Jesus never told anyone to do it. In the Great Commission, Jesus is talking about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Jesus never baptized anyone in water. (John 4:2) The Baptism of Christ is the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 3: 11) There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. (Ephesians 4: 5) Water baptism was not to be continued. (John 3:30 John’s baptism in water was replaced by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:5) The nature of the new covenant is spiritual, not ceremonial. (Colossians 2:16) Jesus was vicariously baptized in water for us. (Matthew 3: 13-17) Paul was not sent to baptize and thanks God he stopped doing it. (1 Corinthians 1: 14-17)

Now, I'm not sure if you recognize this, but Jesus didn't have to explain what baptism was to his disciples. They were USING water to perform baptisms. We receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized...and yes, that includes water since that is what Jesus instituted (to answer the OP).
 
Upvote 0

A-FRIEND

Newbie
Jun 23, 2011
232
8
Music City, USA
✟15,410.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment I repented of my sins and asked Jesus into my life as my Savior and Lord. That is when all persons receive the Baptism in the Spirit. The fact is Jesus never one told anyone to be baptized in water. Jesus was a Jew and some of His follwers had been followers of John the Baptist. Water baptism was replaced by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as Christ taught us. (Acts 1:5)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums