can someone help me with the nephilim?

[runner4christ]

I cannot find much information on them, besides that they were around before the flood, came from Heaven, and were sons of man.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Nephilim were extraterresrial angels who were the sons of God (not sons of man although they did breed with men to produce giants and heroes - hybrids of angels and men).

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." -- Genesis 6:1-2

"...and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." -- Genesis 6:4

"The Hebrew original named them Nephilim; the teacher explained it meant 'giants'; but I objected: didn't it mean literally 'Those who were cast down', who had descended to Earth? I was reprimanded and told to accept the traditional interpretation." -- Zecharia Sitchin, author, 1976

 

[runner4christ]

ok, the only problem I have with that, is that it is only a little vague...

Is there anyway I can get any more information on something like the book of enoch, what was in it?

 

[Christos Anesti]

The book of Enoch goes into more detail regarding them I believe. It's been a long time since I've read it though. I know it was a highly regarded book among many of the early Christians and the Ethiopian Church still considers it canonical. I guess the NT quotes it too.

Book of Enoch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

You are both correct (Christians usually are).

The Book of Enoch gives the list of angels by name and also tells us which angels taught us what science, about makeup and arms etc.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Enoch, I am afraid, bears every sign of having been written by a Second Temple period author. It moreover teaches a version of original sin which stands in stark contrast to Paul's doctrine.

The only scriptural references to the Nephelim are that they existed before the flood and the Hebrews during the wandering period in the wilderness believed that the Anakim of Canaan were their decendants. Genesis itself is ambiguous as to whether the Nephelim are the "sons of God" or whether they are the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men. The ancients all took this to refer to demon-human crossbreeding, though certain modern scholars have argued that it simply means that the godly line of Shem was taking evil wives from the line of Cain, thus entierly polluting the human race, such that God needed to send the flood. I tend to side with the ancients on this one though.

Beyond that, we don't really have any Biblical evidence.

 

[Christos Anesti]

Enoch, I am afraid, bears every sign of having been written by a Second Temple period author. It moreover teaches a version of original sin which stands in stark contrast to Paul's doctrine.

Thats possible but it does address the issue so I thought runner4Christ might be interested in it. I know it has been both loved and reviled within the Church and it never really gained widespread acceptance as part of the canon (but as I noted the Ethiopian Church does consider canonical.). Some of the early Christians and Fathers seem to be in favor of it or at least quoted and paraphrased it and others seem to reject it.

edit

The book of Jude quotes it too and has many parallels with it which is interesting.

 

[Christos Anesti]

St Jerome was one who spoke out against it :

"We have read a certain apocryphal book that when the sons of God were coming down to the daughters of men, they descended upon Mount Hermon and there entered into an agreement to come to the daughters of men and make their wives. This book is quite explicit and is classified as apocryphal. The ancient exegete's have at various time referred to it, but we are citing it, not as authoritative, but merely to bring to your attention... I have read about this apocryphal book in the work of a particular author who used it to confirm his own heresy. What does he say? He says: The sons of God who came down from heaven upon Mount Hermon and coveted the daughters of men are angels, descending from the heavens and souls that desired bodies since bodies are the daughters of men. Do you detect the source of the teachings of Manichaeus, the ignorant? Just as the Manicheans say that souls desired human bodies to be united in pleasure, do not they who say that angels desired bodies- or the daughters of men- seem to be saying the same thing as the Manicheans? It would take to long to refute them now, but I merely wanted to indicate the coincidence as it were , of the book that opportunely confirmed their dogma"

 

[Jpark]

I side with the scholars.

Ezra 9:2 "For they have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed is mixed with the peoples of those lands.

This is my established conviction, a simple solution for the origins of giants:

Adam was a giant. Noah was a giant. The sons of Seth were giants and were the sons of God (Genesis 4:26). The daughters of men were normal and were the daughters of the unbelieving sons of Cain.

After Cain sinned, he was cursed, but his descendants were normal. Cain was a giant. After the sons of Seth sinned, men were normal.

Genesis 4:11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.

So where did the giants of Numbers 13 come from?

Well, Noah was a giant and his sons were giants.

Genesis 9:18 Now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And Ham was the father of Canaan.

It is interesting that the giants of Numbers 13 dwelt in the land of Canaan.

I cannot find much information on them, besides that they were around before the flood, came from Heaven, and were sons of man.

Here is a good website concerning the origins of giants:

http://www.biblelandstudios.com/nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=33

 

[Jpark]

You are both correct (Christians usually are).

The Book of Enoch gives the list of angels by name and also tells us which angels taught us what science, about makeup and arms etc.

Science, technology, arts, arms, warfare, and masonry was from Cain's descendants.

Genesis 4:20-22 And Adah bore Jabal. He was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal. He was the father of all those who play the harp and flute. And as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron. And the sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah.

 

[revanneosl]

Of course, none of this is actuallyhistory in the strict sense. These are myths and legends that have never been verified by any actual historical evidence. I only bring this up because this is the History forum, rather than one of the fora that deal with (historically) unverifiable theological claims.

 

[Jpark]

Of course, none of this is actuallyhistory in the strict sense. These are myths and legends that have never been verified by any actual historical evidence. I only bring this up because this is the History forum, rather than one of the fora that deal with (historically) unverifiable theological claims.

These are testimonies that cannot be affirmed without the demonstration of miracles or manifestations of God.

 

[revanneosl]

These are testimonies that cannot be affirmed without the demonstration of miracles or manifestations of God.

Yes - as I said, not history, which is a social scientific discipline with certain rules about evidence, analysis, and the drawing of conclusions.

 

[Jpark]

Yes - as I said, not history, which is a social scientific discipline with certain rules about evidence, analysis, and the drawing of conclusions.

Yes. Not all science is of Satan and certain aspects of science are acceptable.

 

[Protos]

The Nephilim were not angels, as the reference in Numbers shows (which means they ultimately came from Noah, who was not a giant/nephilim/angel). They were simply, as Genesis 6 says, a race of man from which some of the ancient heroes (Gilgamesh, etc.) came. Giant beds have been found in Palestine, some measuring 13 feet in length.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Angels can't interbreed with humans since they don't have physical bodies. The idea is preposterous.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Giant beds have been found in Palestine, some measuring 13 feet in length.

Whole families slept in the same bed in those days so it follows they'd have made them big enough to accommodate everyone, doesn't mean the bed belonged to a giant.

 

[Jpark]

Never mind.