CAN sickness glorify God?

[oworm]

and before sickness there is divine health.

Can you define that for me .............thanks

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

When someone says I am not trying to make anyone look foolish they are making it appear as if they are smarter.
The same Goes when someone says I am not trying to be rude well the statement tells me if the shoe fits wear it.
I see no point in these sorta statements.

Not all the time.
Sometimes they see that something needs to be said, and they really want to protect the feelings of someone who in fact did say or do a foolish thing.
People in fact do and say foolish things... I know I have. And a kind person responds to me with a gentle statement that, while true, may reveal my foolishness in such a way as to spare my feelings. The proper response to such a person is "thank you".

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

I am not trying to make anyone look foolish. It seems though that others are trying to make us look foolish for serving God even though we have not had to have a "condition" force us to.

mmmm.
I have thought of this before, and it came to mind in this thread once again.
The Lord reached down from heaven when I was 17 and brought me into this life. I was not sick, dying, crippled, or suffering in any way. In fact I was a track star with regional medals in the 440 and mile relay. I was doing well in school and lived in the prosperous area of south Pittsburgh. I gave Him my life early. I gave it having no vices. I was pretty white bread. I was in the occult, and had been investigating a religion called Eckankar. That was mainly due to the topic of "soul travel" which was one of my occult interests. Another was prophecy.... the predictive kind. And it was actually that interest that brought me to the book "The Late Great Planet Earth" where I learned about Bible prophecy, the prophets, and the Holy Spirit. This led me to want this "Holy Spirit", and eventually to read the little Bill Bright tract "How To Receive the Holy Spirit". What I read in these books totally changed my goals.... as He opened my eyes to the truth about my lost condition, and my need for salvation, and it was then that I was saved.

So when I read about these testimonies, I wonder about mine. It was a pretty selfish desire that brought me to the foot of the cross. No handicap or terrible tragidy. Just a youthful lust for spiritual power. Lust brought me to the cross? I think that the cross saved me from lust.

But I gave Him the meat and substance of my life. My later teens, and all the years since. I never experienced bars, drugs, sexual escapades, or and of the other "wild" side adventures. I did not steer my life into a train before I got saved. I just gave him my white bread life.

I am led to think by some that my salvation did not glorify God at all. In fact it may even be considered by some to be an unflattering testimony. But I do not feel bad. The devil tempts me sometimes and says:
"What was it all for? You gave up all your youth and strength for Him... you wasted a lifetime. You are a fool. Now that your youth and strength are spent, it is too late. What a waste."
And yet I remain.
So when I read these testimonies of people who did not give their lives to Him early... who spent their youth and strenght in sin and debauchery, only to be saved when they have nothing left to give Him but their crippled lives and bodies, the devil tempts me again to feel a little resentful of their stance. Especially when is impled that my while bread dedication and service to Him was somehow less glorious than the salvation of those who only came to Him as a last resort...
I hope you see a litte more about what I feel. I think LeeS may be saying the same thing.
Dids

 

[Trish1947]

justinstout.... One of the things I am trying to say is God can take a sickness and show his power through this sickness.
He can take health and show his power he just is a powerful God.
Like Paul with the thorn even though I am not certain what the thorn was, God told him his grace was sufficient.

We should ponder when God tells someone His power is made perfect in our weakness, and His grace is all sufficient for us, what this is saying.

In our weaknesses, and powerless state, all sufficient supply of His grace, and perfect power was supplied, and recieving this, we just happened to have recieved God's very best..our salvation. So can you imagine being told this, that Gods perfect power, and all sufficent grace had been supplied in an infirmity? Did Paul stay the same? Or did he realize he didn't have to remain the same?

 

[LeeS]

Can you define that for me .............thanks

Devine Health:

1 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the LORD your God will set you high above all nations of the earth. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the LORD your God:

3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.
4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.
5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.
6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.
7 “The LORD will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.
8 “The LORD will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
9 “The LORD will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the LORD your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the LORD will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the LORD swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The LORD will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the LORD will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

 

[LeeS]

mmmm.
I have thought of this before, and it came to mind in this thread once again.
The Lord reached down from heaven when I was 17 and brought me into this life. I was not sick, dying, crippled, or suffering in any way. In fact I was a track star with regional medals in the 440 and mile relay. I was doing well in school and lived in the prosperous area of south Pittsburgh. I gave Him my life early. I gave it having no vices. I was pretty white bread. I was in the occult, and had been investigating a religion called Eckankar. That was mainly due to the topic of "soul travel" which was one of my occult interests. Another was prophecy.... the predictive kind. And it was actually that interest that brought me to the book "The Late Great Planet Earth" where I learned about Bible prophecy, the prophets, and the Holy Spirit. This led me to want this "Holy Spirit", and eventually to read the little Bill Bright tract "How To Receive the Holy Spirit". What I read in these books totally changed my goals.... as He opened my eyes to the truth about my lost condition, and my need for salvation, and it was then that I was saved.

So when I read about these testimonies, I wonder about mine. It was a pretty selfish desire that brought me to the foot of the cross. No handicap or terrible tragidy. Just a youthful lust for spiritual power. Lust brought me to the cross? I think that the cross saved me from lust.

But I gave Him the meat and substance of my life. My later teens, and all the years since. I never experienced bars, drugs, sexual expasades, or and of the other "wild" side adventures. I did not steer my life into a train before I got saved. I just gave him my white bread life.

I am led to think by some that my salvation did not glorify God at all. In fact it may even be considered by some to be an unflattering testimony. But I do not feel bad. The devil tempts me sometimes and says:
"What was it all for? You gave up all your youth and strength for Him... you wasted a lifetime. You are a fool. Now that your youth and strength are spent, it is too late. What a waste."
And yet I remain.
So when I read these testimonies of people who did not give their lives to Him early... who spent their youth and strenght in sin and debauchery, only to be saved when they have nothing left to give Him but their crippled lives and bodies, the devil tempts me again to feel a little resentful of their stance. Especially when is impled that my while bread dedication and service to Him was somehow less glorious than the salvation of those who only came to Him as a last resort...
I hope you see a litte more about what I feel. I think LeeS may be saying the same thing.
Dids

I'm the same way Dids. I accepted the Lord as a child. My life was pretty "whitebread" too. I served God with all my being and have had a close relationship with Him as far back as I can remember. I serve Him because I've found no one or nothing else worthy to be served.

 

[JimB]

I am not trying to make anyone look foolish. It seems though that others are trying to make us look foolish for serving God even though we have not had to have a "condition" force us to.

Ouch, Lee!! I can only begin to imagine how a person with “condition” like a severe handicap or disfigurement or terminal cancer who has been prayed for numerous times must feel when they are made to feel that they are somehow to blame for their own lack of healing (especially when they are not told how they can have “healing faith”). Do you suppose those, like you (I suppose), who believe that faith is all that is required for healing could somehow come across to them a little more sensitive (compassionate) when boldly stating their doctrine? Who knows, the “condition” may be yours someday.

~Jim

 

[Harlan Norris]

I would like to amend the subject of the thread that asks “Does sickness glorify God?” by asking, “CAN sickness glorify God?” Ever? Why?/Why not?

~Jim

I have a cronic liver disease that can kill me.It is the result of my drinking and drugging days.I'm currently healthy,in that I'm not suffering any symptoms.However,I'm one drink away from death,so,It is of benefit.I thank God for his grace in giving me more time,and for the knowlege that if I err it can cost me my life.In my view my sickness does glorify God.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

Ouch, Lee!! I can only begin to imagine how a person with “condition” like a severe handicap or disfigurement or terminal cancer who has been prayed for numerous times must feel when they are made to feel that they are somehow to blame for their own lack of healing (especially when they are not told how they can have “healing faith”). Do you suppose those, like you (I suppose), who believe that faith is all that is required for healing could somehow come across to them a little more sensitive (compassionate) when boldly stating their doctrine? Who knows, the “condition” may be yours someday.

~Jim

It has been my experience and observation on this forum that the only ones using the word "blame" are those against healing for all. I do not recall LeeS, or justin, or VW, or others say "it is your fault you are not healed". But I do hear you suggesting it all the time. If they get that notion, it is from you.
My statement has been the same throughout. People are not healed because for whatever reason belief is not present within them. That is not a fault. It is merely the diagnosis of a condition. That condition has a remedy... one we all have to take. We all need to grow in faith and in the word. That is a universal requirement for all believers... you, me, everyone.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

My mother died of the disease of which you speak. At the age of 42, when I was 13, she passed away.
There was no glory in it for God or anyone else.

None.

I have a cronic liver disease that can kill me.It is the result of my drinking and drugging days.I'm currently healthy,in that I'm not suffering any symptoms.However,I'm one drink away from death,so,It is of benefit.I thank God for his grace in giving me more time,and for the knowlege that if I err it can cost me my life.In my view my sickness does glorify God.

 

[justinstout]

Personal experience does not override the Word of God.

Sickness and disease never glorified God in the New Covenant Scriptures, so I'll stick with that. No man-made doctrine or opinion or anyone's personal condition is going to change that. Sickness and disease does not glorify God anymore than sin does.

 

[JimB]

But if you tell someone that their faith can heal them, then pray for their healing and healing does not happen, what do you do? Do you just leave them there wondering why they have no faith and are an embarassment to God and, worse yet, without a clue or any instructions as to how they can getthe necessary faith? It’s like telling someone that Cincinnati up the road, even point it out right there on your roadmap, and then not provide instructions on how to get from here to there. What good is that?

If you do provide instructions and healing still does not come, what do you do? Just leave them wallowing in their own self-doubt (although, personally, I believe every believer has the mustard-seed faith necessary to move mountains, much less warts, so the doubt is not so much in God but in their own weak faith – self-doubt)?

I would contend the problem is not with their lack of faith but in the failure of your doctrine.

But that’s JMO.

~Jim

 

[Evee]

I have a cronic liver disease that can kill me.It is the result of my drinking and drugging days.I'm currently healthy,in that I'm not suffering any symptoms.However,I'm one drink away from death,so,It is of benefit.I thank God for his grace in giving me more time,and for the knowlege that if I err it can cost me my life.In my view my sickness does glorify God.

Amen exactly!
I pray that never happens.

 

[Evee]

justinstout.... One of the things I am trying to say is God can take a sickness and show his power through this sickness.
He can take health and show his power he just is a powerful God.
Like Paul with the thorn even though I am not certain what the thorn was, God told him his grace was sufficient.

Trish,
I would be fairly certain that Justin would want you to know this was my statement, whether it good or bad it was mine.

 

[TreeOfLife]

No.

 

[Evee]

No.

No what? LOL

 

[TreeOfLife]

No what? LOL

I'm sorry. It was a no to myself. I had posted in anger and when I removed it all I could think to say was "no".

 

[Evee]

I'm sorry. It was a no to myself. I had posted in anger and when I removed it all I could think to say was "no".

Ah ok no problem.

 

[LeeS]

Ouch, Lee!! I can only begin to imagine how a person with “condition” like a severe handicap or disfigurement or terminal cancer who has been prayed for numerous times must feel when they are made to feel that they are somehow to blame for their own lack of healing (especially when they are not told how they can have “healing faith”). Do you suppose those, like you (I suppose), who believe that faith is all that is required for healing could somehow come across to them a little more sensitive (compassionate) when boldly stating their doctrine? Who knows, the “condition” may be yours someday.

~Jim

I didn't even come close to saying what you just said I said.

The post I was responding to was saying that it was a good thing for the sickness because it caused the person to draw closer to God whereas if they had been healthy they would still be on the street in hot cars looking for hot women.

Also, I do not claim to have everything down pat. I only know what I read in scripture regarding sickness and disease. I've clearly stated that it's not necessarily the sin of the person or the parents or anyone in the immediate family.

I've also stated that I myself suffered with a life threatening situation and while I learned alot and experienced "some" manefestation of healing, I did not experience total manifestation of healing. Yet I still believe according to scripture I WAS healed. But for "whatever" reason it just did not manifest.

Why is it so hard for us to admit that we are not as full of faith as we'd like to be? At this point in time when I get a headache I take an asperin. Growing in faith is NOT easy. There is no "poof" and everything is perfect. It takes persistance and consistency.

At this point of my life I don't have the persistant consistency to even grow enough in faith to where when I get a headache I wait on the Lord to take it away. I'm not an expert on this. I'm learning, just like everyone else.

 

[LeeS]

I have a cronic liver disease that can kill me.It is the result of my drinking and drugging days.I'm currently healthy,in that I'm not suffering any symptoms.However,I'm one drink away from death,so,It is of benefit.I thank God for his grace in giving me more time,and for the knowlege that if I err it can cost me my life.In my view my sickness does glorify God.

I'm sorry to disagree with you but it's YOU who glorifies God, not your disease. Your disease keeps you in check but sickness does not glorify anything but itself.