Can Salvation be lost?

[Hammster]

He did get the part about it being written to the Jews right but the verses pertain to everyone.

Do you sin?

 

[HIM]

Chapter 10 sure does. In context.

Prove it

 

[Hammster]

Prove it

“Every priest stands day after day ministering and offering the same sacrifices time after time, which can never take away sins. But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:11-14‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

You are perfected.


“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws on their hearts and write them on their minds, He adds: I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

Your sins will not be remembered if you are in a covenant with Him.

Since this was written to the Jews who were accustomed to the old sacrificial system, he tells them in v. 25 that if they don’t hold it these truths, and continue in sin (which they will), there no longer remains a sacrifice. If you are correct, and you sin, then Christ’s sacrifice isn’t even good enough.

Also, keep in mind that this comes after chapters 8 and 9 where he talks extensively about the new sacrifice versus the old. He is really wanting them to see that Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient and the old covenant sacrifices are no longer worth anything.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you sin?

unfortunately yes.

 

[Hammster]

unfortunately yes.

Then there remains no sacrifice for you, if you are correct about 10:25.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then there remains no sacrifice for you, if you are correct about 10:25.

Amen

 

[prophecy_uk]

The people had not received the Holy Ghost, Apostle Paul asked what baptism they had been baptized with ? They said to John ( the baptist) and Paul said they should believe on Jesus Christ ( they had not heard of any Holy Ghost)

Then they hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost came upon them.

Then do we not know that we which were baptized, were baptized into the death of Jesus Christ, buried in that baptism to His death with Him, and like Christ was raised up by glory of the Father we should also walk in newness of life.

We were required to be branches in Christ, this is us being planted together in the likeness of His death, to be also in the likeness of His resurrection, our old man is crucified with Him ( before His crucifixion we are the old man) and we in the body of sin that becomes crucified once crucified with Christ in baptism.....





Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.




Law keeping and believing, such as being circumcised then is not any thing, but a new creature is everything.

The Galatians received the Spirit by the hearing of faith, not by what the law had done, but by what Jesus had done, by His faith to die for us and to rise again, this is exampled in Abraham believing God of the promise of faith and this is righteousness..




Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.




Jesus taught how new wine must be put into new bottles, to preserve both. Jesus led the way in this, by the blood of the new covenant, which was shed for many, and by His body which was broken for us, to make the new body.
Then we are told, that Christ died for all as all were dead, then we know no man any more after the flesh, we know Christ now also without the flesh. Then if anyone is in Christ ( we being the branches in the vine) they are a new creature, all becomes new, all is of God, who reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, giving us this ministry of reconciliation..



Matthew 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;




Jesus then in His flesh abolishes the law of commandments, to make this new man.

The old man then is put off, and his deceitful lusts and deeds, to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, to put on the new man, and after God this is created in righteousness and TRUE HOLINESS, ( the Lord sanctified previously a day which had no truth, the sabbath, but now sanctifies all our days truly through Christ) then they put away lying ( they do this by being given the Spirit of Christ by believing in Christs rising from the dead to life) as now we being in the vine are members one of another ( the branches cannot be in the vine until all can be members one of another)

The new man put on is renewed in knowledge ( renewed in the spirit of your mind) after the image of Him that created him, and then Christ is all in all ( then the vine is in all the branches and all the branches are in Him)

Then as the elect of God they put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness and long suffering, forgiving one another and putting ion charity as this is the bond of perfectness ( put on Christ the new man)...





Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.




The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus makes us free from the law of sin and death, which is all that is before the resurrection of Christ.

Boasting then is by the law of faith ( by nothing else it is all nothing)

Bearing one another's burdens is the law of Christ, and to be found in Him ( in the vine and we the branches) it is not by the law, but it is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith, is to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, to be made conformable unto His death...




Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 

[prophecy_uk]

“Every priest stands day after day ministering and offering the same sacrifices time after time, which can never take away sins. But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:11-14‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

You are perfected.


“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws on their hearts and write them on their minds, He adds: I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

Your sins will not be remembered if you are in a covenant with Him.

Since this was written to the Jews who were accustomed to the old sacrificial system, he tells them in v. 25 that if they don’t hold it these truths, and continue in sin (which they will), there no longer remains a sacrifice. If you are correct, and you sin, then Christ’s sacrifice isn’t even good enough.

Also, keep in mind that this comes after chapters 8 and 9 where he talks extensively about the new sacrifice versus the old. He is really wanting them to see that Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient and the old covenant sacrifices are no longer worth anything.

Yes our past sins are not remembered, then being born again, there are no more sins to see. Otherwise perfected and sanctified is in being unrighteous, and in filth.


See clearly the words, we are justified by the redemption that is in Jesus Christ, God set Christ as propitiation through faith in His blood, declaring His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, Jesus being just to justify those who believe in Jesus...



Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.



This is the perfection through Christ, and the new covenant ( agreement) with God, which is to purify our souls in obeying the truth throgh the Spirit, which is unfeigned love of the brothers, loving one another with a pure heart then, which is to be born again of incorruptible seed ( the good seed) by the word of God ( by Jesus Christ who gave the good seed) who lives and abides for ever..


1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.



Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins then ( the past ones that are no longer remembered which is the law of sin and death) and we know Him if we keep His commandments, we lie if we do not keep them, ( no truth is in us without the Spirit of truth, the vine now in us and we the branches in Him now to bear much fruit through the fruitful Spirit) and keeping His word is the perfect part, as this is the love of Gd perfected in us, this is how you know you are in Him ( in the vine and you being the branches)....


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.



We are to love one another, to be born of God is to love and know that God is love.

When anyone does not love ( but hates and works ill to their neighbour/sinning against them in any way) they do not know God, who is love. ( love works no ill to your neighbour)

We did not love God ( we had no faith or love to come to God with) but God loved us, and sent the Son to be propitiation for our sins ( by the death on the cross or no sins are forgiven for anyone)

All unrighteousness anyone does, is sin. The sin not unto death is the ones who are born again, that sin not, they are begotten of God to keep themselves ( from pride and coveting, selfishness, lying) and this is then the wicked one, touching them not ( if through the faith of Christ they keep themselves in the love of God as Christ exampled which is the branches abiding in the vine to abide in His love as the Son kept the Fathers commandments to abide in His love)..


1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[HIM]

“Every priest stands day after day ministering and offering the same sacrifices time after time, which can never take away sins. But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:11-14‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

You are perfected.
“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws on their hearts and write them on their minds, He adds: I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

Your sins will not be remembered if you are in a covenant with Him.

We are Sanctified also. Except the sanctification is not stated as being for ever. We can lose that if we are SINNING WILLFULLY. Or if you wish as the HCSB translates it, deliberately sin. So If we are no longer sanctified as verse 29 states due to deliberately sinning what do we have to look forward to? A terrifying expectation of judgment and fury of fire which shall consume the adversaries; those who are deliberately sinning.

So sin is sin in general in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18 but not in verse 26?

Maybe your issue comes from a poor translation of the text? It is not a sin that is done willfully, But a continual state of sinning willfully.

.

 

[zoidar]

“Every priest stands day after day ministering and offering the same sacrifices time after time, which can never take away sins. But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:11-14‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

You are perfected.


“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws on their hearts and write them on their minds, He adds: I will never again remember their sins and their lawless acts.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

Your sins will not be remembered if you are in a covenant with Him.

Since this was written to the Jews who were accustomed to the old sacrificial system, he tells them in v. 25 that if they don’t hold it these truths, and continue in sin (which they will), there no longer remains a sacrifice. If you are correct, and you sin, then Christ’s sacrifice isn’t even good enough.

Also, keep in mind that this comes after chapters 8 and 9 where he talks extensively about the new sacrifice versus the old. He is really wanting them to see that Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient and the old covenant sacrifices are no longer worth anything.

I will quote from Adam Clarke about Heb 10:14:

"For by one offering - His death upon the cross.

He hath perfected for ever - He has procured remission of sins and holiness; fur it is well observed here, and in several parts of this epistle, that τελειοω, to make perfect, is the same as αφεσιν ἁμαρτιων ποιεω, to procure remission of sins.

Them that are sanctified - Τους ἁγιαζομενους· Them that have received the sprinkling of the blood of this offering. These, therefore, receiving redemption through that blood, have no need of any other offering; as this was a complete atonement, purification, and title to eternal glory."

 

[BNR32FAN]

We are Sanctified also. Except the sanctification is not stated as being for ever. We can lose that if we are SINNING WILLFULLY. Or if you wish as the HCSB translates it, deliberately sin. So If we are no longer sanctified as verse 29 states due to deliberately sinning what do we have to look forward to? A terrifying expectation of judgment and fury of fire which shall consume the adversaries; those who are deliberately sinning.

So sin is sin in general in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18 but not in verse 26?

Maybe your issue comes from a poor translation of the text? It is not a sin that is done willfully, But a continual state of sinning willfully.

.

no it’s more of an issue of prima doctrina which means doctrines take precedence in determining scriptural interpretation.

 

[Hammster]

We are Sanctified also. Except the sanctification is not stated as being for ever. We can lose that if we are SINNING WILLFULLY. Or if you wish as the HCSB translates it, deliberately sin. So If we are no longer sanctified as verse 29 states due to deliberately sinning what do we have to look forward to? A terrifying expectation of judgment and fury of fire which shall consume the adversaries; those who are deliberately sinning.

So sin is sin in general in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18 but not in verse 26?

Maybe your issue comes from a poor translation of the text? It is not a sin that is done willfully, But a continual state of sinning willfully.

.

But you continually sin. So you are without hope if you are correct.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But you continually sin. So you are without hope if you are correct.

No, that’s not what is said at all. There remains no more sacrifice for sin. This just means that goats can sleep comfortably at night knowing that Jesus has saved them.

 

[Hammster]

No, that’s not what is said at all. There remains no more sacrifice for sin. This just means that goats can sleep comfortably at night knowing that Jesus has saved them.

Goats aren’t saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Goats aren’t saved.

I was referring to literal goats not the metaphorical goats brother.

 

[Hammster]

I was referring to literal goats not the metaphorical goats brother.

Then you’ve lost me as to why you responded to my post.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then you’ve lost me as to why you responded to my post.

It was kind of a joke implying that Jesus saved the goats from any further sin offerings. That’s what the verse is specifically stating.

 

[Hammster]

It was kind of a joke implying that Jesus saved the goats from any further sin offerings. That’s what the verse is specifically stating.

Ah.

 

[prophecy_uk]

We are Sanctified also. Except the sanctification is not stated as being for ever. We can lose that if we are SINNING WILLFULLY. Or if you wish as the HCSB translates it, deliberately sin. So If we are no longer sanctified as verse 29 states due to deliberately sinning what do we have to look forward to? A terrifying expectation of judgment and fury of fire which shall consume the adversaries; those who are deliberately sinning.

So sin is sin in general in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18 but not in verse 26?

Maybe your issue comes from a poor translation of the text? It is not a sin that is done willfully, But a continual state of sinning willfully.

.

There is no example in the Apostles of Jesus Christ sinning at all, neither accidentally, nor wilfully. How can a new man be dead to sin, and a new man and all old passed away, or any law written in the new heart in the new covenant, if they are open to sin at any time, according to the doctrine of " a way out clause"


If you placed a programme into a computer, will it not just carry out its instructions ?


The same as you expect no good to be in an evil person, no evil is in the good one..



Mathew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[HIM]

But you continually sin. So you are without hope if you are correct.

The text says Willfully sinning not continually sin. The word is the standard not us.
And we have no idea what one is doing unless we are God.
If we are willfully sinning all we have to look forward to is His fiery indignation which shall destroy the adversary; the willfully sinning person who has received the knowledge of the truth.