Ed1wolf
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- Dec 26, 2002
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Ed1wolf said: ↑
Yes, but the biblical evidence some of which is mentioned above points to the Christian God existing 13.8 bya. He knew what happened at the BB. Long before Hinduism.
de: The actual historical evidence leads us to believe that Yahweh was worshipped as a regional god in the polytheistic Canaanite pantheon starting somewhere roughly around 1,200BC - 1,000BC, give or take. Over time the Israelites became Monotheistic and the Yahweh that most people would recognize today came about around the time of the Babylonian Exile.
No, there is evidence that Yahweh was worshipped long before that, at least as far back as 2000 BC. There is textual evidence that the story of Abraham comes from that time period. The type of covenant God made with Abraham fits the Hittite Suzerainty Treaty. Someone living in 1200-1000 BC could not have known about that type of treaty. Also, sociological studies have shown that almost all ancient religions recognize one supreme God over all the other gods and if traced back in time there is evidence that that God is usually the oldest one that they recognize. This is evidence that originally humans were monotheistic and that other gods were added later.
de: The reality is, the god of Judaism isn't nearly as old as the Pyramids are. That can be demonstrated. It's also plenty of reason to believe that humans invented him, and not the other way around.
No, human created gods do not have the high moral standards of the Christian God. For example, if He had been manmade He would have allowed humans to have sex with whomever they wanted rather than restricting it to heterosexual married couples. And He would have allowed divorce laws to be much more relaxed. And He would allow you to hate your enemies and tell lies when they help you and etc. Such nearly unreachable moral standards would unlikely to have been created by humans.
ed: The universe is a diversity within a unity which reflects the characteristics of its cause just like any artistic creation, ie the Triune Christian God. The Hindu god is a pure unity, ie the One. Therefore it is unlikely to have been the cause of this universe.
de: I don't see how either one makes it less likely or more likely that the god in question created the universe.
Art experts know that artists incorporate certain characteristics of themselves into their artwork. That is how they are able to determine whether a piece of art was actually created by the artist or whether it is a fake. And this is also often true of non art creations.
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ed: Exactly, that is my point, that is why the universe and life could only have been created by a conscious personal Being. Purpose exists in the universe, ie the purpose of eyes is for seeing and ears' purpose is to hear and etc.
de: You're asserting that because something happens to work that it was purposefully designed to do a task. There's simply no reason to believe that.
Fraid so, especially if it is so obvious that is what they were functionally designed to do in cases of eyes, ears, hands, etc.
ed: Let me turn around your example and put it another way... What's the purpose of cancer cells in children? They very effectively reproduce and spread, often killing the child.
Would you say god created childhood leukemia with the purpose of killing children in agony, or would you call it a product of nature that just does what it does? So what makes you think the other naturally occurring mechanisms in our body which allow us to see and hear are any different, apart from one is negative and the others are positive?
The obviousness of the finely tuned function of the eyes, ears, teeth, and etc plainly point to purpose. Cancers do not have that obviousness of a finely tuned function or irreducible complexity. Though they very well may have a purpose that is hidden from us at present. We do see a function among animals for such things, they help keep animal populations from overtaking their resources and after they die they help return nutrients back to the environment so that life can go on.
de: They are all things our body does. You have not demonstrated an outside source is required to bestow purpose on our various body parts in order for them to do things.
The intricately designed immune systems to fight infections and even cancers show a purpose also. Please provide an empirical example of a impersonal source for purpose, outside of biological systems of course, since that is what we are arguing.
Yes, and you are personal being. This confirms my point that purposes only come from personal beings.de: The only purpose I'm aware of is the purpose we give ourselves. And frankly, that's the only purpose worth worrying about.
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