Can I question some things I hear, in our Charismatic movement?

[TillICollapse]

I can think of a scripture that may suggest it's origins, as well as what the appearance of it amongst believers might suggest. Exodus 32:

"19 When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. 20 And he took the calf the people had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink it.

21 He said to Aaron, “What did these people do to you, that you led them into such great sin?”

22 “Do not be angry, my lord,” Aaron answered. “You know how prone these people are to evil. 23 They said to me, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.’ 24 So I told them, ‘Whoever has any gold jewelry, take it off.’ Then they gave me the gold, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf!”

25 Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies."

 

[Frogster]

i see no connection in your post, besides, paul talked about alot, even head coverings in church, prophecy, tongues etc, but gee...nothing about glitter dust, feathers, or fake gems. Why?

 

[TillICollapse]

You don't see a *single* connection in that scriptural account ? Not a single one ?

 

[contango]

So no one has analyzed it compositionally yet ?

Covered in posts 154 and 156. From the analysis linked it appears to be something like glitter.

 

[TillICollapse]

Covered in posts 154 and 156. From the analysis linked it appears to be something like glitter.

Ah, sorry ... I skipped those posts because I just saw a link that said "here" and didn't read the following posts that responded to it. Interesting.

 

[Messy]

besides, paul talked about alot, even head coverings in church, prophecy, tongues etc, but gee...nothing about glitter dust, feathers, or fake gems. Why?

Those are the greater works.

 

[Frogster]

Those are the greater works.

head coverings are greater works?

he went a-z on the important -o-meter, yet no dust, no fake gems or feathers.

look here, he put serving, in with prophecy, giving, etc, covering the full spectrum, besides, one could say serving is more important than some other stuff.





12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads,[f] with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

 

[Frogster]

personally, i would not want to walk around town with glitter dust on me, girls put that in their makeup, people might get the wrong idea about the frog.

 

[FoundInGrace]

personally, i would not want to walk around town with glitter dust on me, girls put that in their makeup, people might get the wrong idea about the frog.

Hehe

 

[Frogster]

Hehe

 

[Frogster]

I could just imagine Paul walking around with glitter on him!

 

[Godisgood12]

I could just imagine Paul walking around with glitter on him!

To the glitter wearers he became a glitter wearer to win...

 

[Frogster]

To the glitter wearers he became a glitter wearer to win...

he had limits, would he wear a dress, to win men who dressed as women?

 

[Alive_Again]

We've ALL worn similar hats in some areas. We're probably all still wearing some hats we're not aware of yet that keep us in similar company. Our knowledge of the Word is so small, yet we sometimes cling to our lack of knowledge like a protective covering. We should at least be open for God to revise our understanding and not cast premature judgment.

"Sarai's going to have a baby and I'm going into that tomb to make it happen! Where's that in the Word? Can God speak without the written Word?"

"You want me to kill my only son that you said was an heir? I'm gonna need two more witnesses before I believe that!"

"Moses saw a replay of human history from the beginning and yet wrote about his own death, and you expect me to believe this?"

Following stories of Jonah in Niniveh, "Oh sure! Jonah got swallowed by a fish!" "3 days!" The whole town repented! False revival! Even my home town never repented in their entirety in one day. False signs! (Don't you know it's evil to ask for a sign?)

"You claim to have collapsed the walls at Jericho with a shout and some broken pottery and you came back with a harlot and you claim God gave her to you?"

"Turn the rod into a serpent? That's an old trick even our charlatans can accomplish!"

"One side of the sheepskin was wet?" I've never seen anything like this."

"A seah of fine flour? Two seahs of barley for a shekel? I'd bet my life that couldn't happen!"

"They were killed because they couldn't say Shibboleth? Where is that in the Word?"

"You lost my axe and then commanded it to float? I only need one more witness to testify you're insane!"

"David is king? We've been in the desert 'reigning' for seven years! We're running from Saul. Reality check!"

"Isaiah saw the Lord! There's only one Lord. Moses said no one could see the Lord and live, yet Isaiah walks among us today!" "We all observe the Law of Moses. Who does Isaiah think he is?"

Overheard in Jerusalem...

"The Messiah is coming to restore Jerusalem to it's former glory. The latter house will be greater than the former. We are in bondage to the Romans. This could not be the Messiah!"

John said that Jesus said that no one has seen God at any time. (I knew Isaiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel were all of the "false church")."

"Now the same John says that He saw the Ancient of Days and the Lord sitting next to Him. He's an old man who is losing it. It is John that loves to have the pre-eminence! I know what the Word says!"

"God told Abraham that the land he walked in was ours (by grace), yet we've spent all this time in the desert. Our entering in physically to do battle is a 'works-oriented" theology. Abraham never said a word about marching around the desert or around a city."

"Paul said we don't have to be circumcised, yet God commanded all males eight days old to be circumcised. Just stick with the Word!"

"No more sabbath? Uh-uh! God clearly stated in the Word that it was an eternal commandment! Your knowledge of the text is bad! Stick to the text! Remember the deceivers and lying spirits!"

"Saul (or Paul as he wants to be called) had my Uncle and Aunt rounded up and were beaten and now he has some "good news" for us? Do you think I'm stupid?! Fool me once.. Fool me twice?"

"Everything should be done according to the pattern shown on the mount, yet this bearded hippy-freakazoid in the desert (who eats bugs) says he has to wash us in the river for our sins to be forgiven. Who are you gonna believe?"

"The voice heard from Heaven was only thunder!"

"His body is now gone and you expect me to believe He was raised from the dead? Where is that in the Word?"

"The sun went dark for a while and any fool can see the clouds came. What's next? Drama king!"

"You found gold in the mouth of a fish?! Jeremiah warned us of deceivers among the flock!"

"We had a couple of people claim to be the Messiah and look what happened to them. Look what happened to Jesus! The Law said that anyone who hangs on a tree is cursed! Stick with the Word!"

"He couldn't save Himself, yet He's a Messiah to everyone?"

"You fed 5,000 men and thousands of women and children with one days supply of food? Even Moses didn't do that. Deceivers!"

"You say a serpent talked to Eve? Now you want me to give my life to someone who's dead? Show me ONE serpent who can talk and I'll believe you!"

"Someone was supposedly healed by Peter's shadow? That never even happened to Jesus! Self-appointed super-apostles!"

""Many great signs given", yet we don't know about many. Anybody can claim to have signs. If they're not in the Word, I'm not gonna believe it!"

"Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead? Right! Let's kill him (again) and we'll see if that really is true."

"Jesus said greater works that what He did are going to be performed? Where in 2,000 years of going to meetings did that take place? Over in which revival?"

'I know God didn't really lose His voice and all things are "new", but I'm not gonna accept anything unless I see it in the Bible. What He says today has to already be in the Bible, or I'm not gonna believe it. That's 'extra-biblical'! If He does speak, we'll receive it, but not give it the same weight as what He said in the Bible!"

"Jesus said signs following the believer would be "new tongues"! Paul (the wonder worker) said that "do all speak with tongues?" Obviously "new" means more godly and knowledgeable. God never "made" me speak with tongues, so it must not be for everyone!

"I know you say you're Jesus, but you're gonna have to show me in the Bible where it says I can die and come back. After all, after death, comes the judgment. I couldn't possibly go back. That would violate my understanding of the Word!"

"Where in the Word does it say that Jesus appeared in another form? We know He is a "Lion" but that is only a figure of speech! God doesn't have feathers either, even though it says He does. That's only an allegory!"

"Just because Lazarus was talking to Abraham doesn't mean Abraham was really awake (after all he's dead and rotted...sleeping!). The fact that a man was burning and talking in Hades doesn't mean that this is a reward for the wicked. It doesn't mean that at all! It just is an allegory for something else (I heard the Nation of Israel)." Calm down! It's just a Babylonian myth!

"I know God said that He's going to do something new and that we would know it; Jesus said "all things were made new", but if I don't see it in the Bible, it's ALMOST certainly a false sign (which is all I need to condemn it).

 

[Frogster]

Last week, I talked with a guy in my town, that has totally introjected all this silly extreme stuff, glitter dust, etc, he had no boundary, he just took it all in, and all I could think of, was that Paul said…how,……


Romans 16:18
For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

His only line of defense, was to almost act like a cult person, chanting a mantra…”touch not my anointed”, all while he would not listen to all the texts that confront false teachers, who no doubt in Paul’s day, and ours, call themselves and think they are the "anointed", oh my, how convenient!

What a self protection umbrella they hide under, as they, like the guy in my town, seek refuge from criticism, milking the touch not verse.

Then I told him that David took some of Saul’s army, for himself, and he teamed up with the king of Babylon to fight against Saul, "the anointed", but the guy just would not listen, he wanted to just believe everything these false teachers fed him, like a baby on pablum.

Really sad, to see wolves, find the perfect victims, the naïve, to feed their lusts, as per Rom 16:18.

 

[Alive_Again]

His only line of defense, was to almost act like a cult person, chanting a mantra…”touch not my anointed”, all while he would not listen to all the texts that confront false teachers, who no doubt in Paul’s day, and ours, call themselves and think they are the "anointed", oh my, how convenient!

The thing is, taking a closer look at things we're not sure about is sound wisdom. Not rushing in to things and looking well to our going are all safe methods to help keep our life on track.

Seeking godly counsel and testing all things, holding fast to that which is good is sound New Testament precepts. Walking in the peace of God and doing the things that make for peace... again, safe stuff.

When it says "not to touch My anointed", it means not to come against the manifestation of God's Spirit in that person, who is walking in their anointing. That's what we're not to come against. We're not to even speak against it. (That's what God is doing, not man.)

It's perfectly legit to search out and to examine, and look at scripture, and pray and look at in the light. That's all good. If you have nothing to hide, that is to be encouraged. You don't hear devils encouraging this.

But many do not discern the anointing on many servants lives. They feel free to make fleshly judgments with all sorts of bad fruit. When it comes time to assess and to judge and to speak of where you are with something that touches your life (or someone you love), then you speak (only when the Lord gives you space with supernatural peace).

The judgment should have love in it. It should resemble something like what you'd like others to judge you (when I say judge, I mean exercise judgment by the Spirit of God). It should be easily entreatable. It should not seek its own. It does not make fun of anyone. You realize they are your family members.

You should have a knowledge that even if they make a mistake or are in error about something, that you make similar errors in other aspects of your life, and that if it weren't for the judgment we receive, we'd be as bad as anyone in darkness.

Just to say something is beyond your understanding, or that it sounds wild, or incredible does not put it in the realm of deception. Just because we don't have a precedent for something new does not mean it is invalid. Just to quote scripture about deception does not make it apply. Because others sound off and say "Don't touch the anointing", does not mean they are not anointed. It means, "By all means use sound judgment, but don't render your findings based on your ignorance, or the flesh.".

Paul's teacher told us that if it isn't of God, it will come to naught. Better leave it alone lest you find yourself opposing God! Sound judgment!

"Slight of hand" is used when people speak against valid ministries and make rash judgments without knowledge, and to imply that it is proper. It is deception. If someone says, "Everyone hides behind "Don't touch the anointing!", just to validate continual judgment, that is what the shining one does. It makes good evil and evil good.

We must be careful not to employ the very tactics his servants use to avoid accountability in judgment. We mustn't encourage others to do the same and bring judgment upon themselves.

I'm not validating anyone's signs. I just know better than to rush in judgment against them in the manner so commonly done here in the "Spirit Filled" section. We would all do well to leave it alone. It is not being naive.

 

[Alive_Again]

Then I told him that David took some of Saul’s army, for himself, and he teamed up with the king of Babylon to fight against Saul, "the anointed", but the guy just would not listen, he wanted to just believe everything these false teachers fed him, like a baby on pablum.

I heard an interesting teaching about this form John Paul Jackson, I think it was.

David was not allowed to fight against Saul. He was in a bit of a quandary. He was among the Phillistines, yet he was being called on to fight against Saul. Mr. Jackson was saying that it was likely that he would have been called on to kill King Saul (his son Jonathan beside him). So David, a man without a homeland, a king in exile, was told NOT to fight because of the objections of the Phillistines.

So David's all bummed out, yet it was this battle that opened up the kingdom for David. After Saul was slain, David went and claimed his throne. It seemed grim for David, but God was using these circumstances in his favor.

David's heart was clear when he chose NOT to kill Saul in the cave. It was because he did not want to touch God's anointed (even if he was wrong).

 

[Frogster]

The thing is, taking a closer look at things we're not sure about is sound wisdom. Not rushing in to things and looking well to our going are all safe methods to help keep our life on track.

Seeking godly counsel and testing all things, holding fast to that which is good is sound New Testament precepts. Walking in the peace of God and doing the things that make for peace... again, safe stuff.

When it says "not to touch My anointed", it means not to come against the manifestation of God's Spirit in that person, who is walking in their anointing. That's what we're not to come against. We're not to even speak against it. (That's what God is doing, not man.)

It's perfectly legit to search out and to examine, and look at scripture, and pray and look at in the light. That's all good. If you have nothing to hide, that is to be encouraged. You don't hear devils encouraging this.

But many do not discern the anointing on many servants lives. They feel free to make fleshly judgments with all sorts of bad fruit. When it comes time to assess and to judge and to speak of where you are with something that touches your life (or someone you love), then you speak (only when the Lord gives you space with supernatural peace).

The judgment should have love in it. It should resemble something like what you'd like others to judge you (when I say judge, I mean exercise judgment by the Spirit of God). It should be easily entreatable. It should not seek its own. It does not make fun of anyone. You realize they are your family members.

You should have a knowledge that even if they make a mistake or are in error about something, that you make similar errors in other aspects of your life, and that if it weren't for the judgment we receive, we'd be as bad as anyone in darkness.

Just to say something is beyond your understanding, or that it sounds wild, or incredible does not put it in the realm of deception. Just because we don't have a precedent for something new does not mean it is invalid. Just to quote scripture about deception does not make it apply. Because others sound off and say "Don't touch the anointing", does not mean they are not anointed. It means, "By all means use sound judgment, but don't render your findings based on your ignorance, or the flesh.".

Paul's teacher told us that if it isn't of God, it will come to naught. Better leave it alone lest you find yourself opposing God! Sound judgment!

"Slight of hand" is used when people speak against valid ministries and make rash judgments without knowledge, and to imply that it is proper. It is deception. If someone says, "Everyone hides behind "Don't touch the anointing!", just to validate continual judgment, that is what the shining one does. It makes good evil and evil good.

We must be careful not to employ the very tactics his servants use to avoid accountability in judgment. We mustn't encourage others to do the same and bring judgment upon themselves.

I'm not validating anyone's signs. I just know better than to rush in judgment against them in the manner so commonly done here in the "Spirit Filled" section. We would all do well to leave it alone. It is not being naive.

2 simple questions. I did not read all this, but scanning it I see the anointing word, so i ask you this...


Do you think that all the false teachers, in the Bible, and ones today, thought or said, they were "anointed"?

And is it way to easy to seek refuge under that verse, to insulate oneself from challenge?

A yes or no will suffice, thanks.


I posted alot of verses aleady, so whay hastle with more....?

 

[Alive_Again]

Closed eyes or ears won't listen to instructions of reproof.

Not the first time you've said this either.

2 simple questions. I did not read all this, but scanning it I see the anointing word, so i ask you this...

Do you think that all the false teachers, in the Bible, and ones today, thought or said, they were "anointed"?

And is it way to easy to seek refuge under that verse, to insulate oneself from challenge?

It doesn't matter what they think if they were or not. The question is, are they? Why the big obsession with whether or not someone is false?

 

[TasManOfGod]

The problem we are discussing is not whether the person is anointed but rather if he is should we discredit it without really knowing and the consequences that may bring upon ourselves.