Can I question some things I hear, in our Charismatic movement?

[Alive_Again]

Rather than, "Do not challenge my teachings", let's actually examine the teachings and not dismiss them personally until we do.
​

sorry..we have all seen them take refuge under that verse..there was a member right here on this thread that heard that stuff.

If you really want to know truth, the answer should not be "sorry". It should be yes! Let's look at the preaching and the fruits for the kingdom.

How will you argue against that?

soooo..do false teachers think they are, or say they are "God's anointed",and is does'nt that make it to easy to go unchallenged

I'm not interested in seeing false teachers go unchallenged. But just saying they are doesn't make it so.

As contango said:

Obsession with whether someone is false?

I'd have said it was pretty crucial to figure out if a teacher speaks truth or falsehood. If someone is spreading false teachings we need to know so we can reject the false teaching.

The only way to do this is to actually present what they're preaching, no?

 

[Frogster]

Rather than, "Do not challenge my teachings", let's actually examine the teachings and not dismiss them personally until we do.
​

If you really want to know truth, the answer should not be "sorry". It should be yes! Let's look at the preaching and the fruits for the kingdom.

How will you argue against that?

I'm not interested in seeing false teachers go unchallenged. But just saying they are doesn't make it so.

As contango said:
The only way to do this is to actually present what they're preaching, no?

are fruits of the kingdom crying statues, and all of the other stuff i mentioned?

see? That's just it, it can't go both ways, if people say the old slogan, we can't put God in a box, to defend protestant silly stuff, then they have to give in to crying statues, and all the other stuff i raised, yes, raising levitating too...

 

[Andrea411]

ok, so it seems as though stigmatas, crying statues, fatima, are fine with you? there is a vagueness here..sorry....

so i guess rosary beads that turn to a gold color, hosts that turn to blood in their mouths, and I mean that literally, not just doctrinally, and levitating preists are fine too?

I just ask, only for clarification, about where you stand, because after this, I can go into other religions, and their practices and mystical things too, to learn more about my sis, thanks, happy new year, be blessed, frog.

ps, red above, as far as respect for the Lord, that is relative to if one believes that this stuff is from the Lord. Some doctrines are of demons, Paul said.

I saw the levitating priest thing… disconcerting?? IDK what to think. If the priest were teaching this made him especially important in God's eyes and you should listen to him over scripture or there were variances in the gospel… no I would think it was a demon. From what I could see the poor guy was embarrassed when it happened…. makes me think it was demonic but I wasn't there. It was so many centuries ago. I have a difficult time taking it seriously.
I think I'd take the whole gold rosary beads in context also… Rosary beads are just memory tricks…. kind of wish sometimes we had something like that… instead of rubbing stones etc its an anti-anxiety exercise often in times of deep trouble people bring out the rosary to focus on prayer. Yes, I am troubled by prayers to mary?? If Mary could answer billions of prayers - she'd be God…. but when I speak to Catholics about this and they say, well you ask others to pray for you… NO I DON"T SPEAK TO THE DEAD… but if the Lord is looking at hearts…. and what they do is in ignorance or genuinely wanting to please the Lord… I think He sees their heart and love for Him.

I ask you…. do you think Protestants honor Mary appropriately, according to scripture?

This is just from Wiki but its relevant that even the reformers were not sure how to deal with Mary in the church context….
Some early Protestants venerated and honored Mary. Martin Luther said of Mary:
"the honor given to the mother of God has been rooted so deeply into the hearts of men that no one wants to hear any opposition to this celebration... We also grant that she should be honored, since we, according to Saint Paul's words [Romans 12] are indebted to show honor one to another for the sake of the One who dwells in us, Jesus Christ. Therefore we have an obligation to honor Mary. But be careful to give her honor that is fitting. Unfortunately, I worry that we give her all too high an honor for she is accorded much more esteem than she should be given or than she accounted to herself."
John Calvin said, "It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor." Zwingli said, "I esteem immensely the Mother of God" and "The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow".
Thus the idea of respect and high honour was not rejected by the first Protestants; but rather it was the matter of degrees of honor given to Mary, as the mother of Jesus, that Protestant Reformers were concerned with, and therefore the practical implications for Mariology are still a matter of debate.
John Wycliffe[edit]


A statue of Mary in the Protestant church of Saint-Pierre-le-Jeune, Strasbourg.
The pre-Lutheran reformer, John Wycliffe reflected the Marian spirit of the later Middle Ages in one of his earlier sermons: "It seems to me impossible that we should obtain the reward of Heaven without the help of Mary. There is no sex or age, no rank or position, of anyone in the whole human race, which has no need to call for the help of the Holy Virgin."[4]

The whole RCC Mary thing has always bothered me, I had a professor who was so excited that they might name her CO-REDEMPTRIX - which of course horrified me. As I noted earlier the RCC has rejected that idea… yes it bothers me that they often worship Mary… even though I hear them say they do not… I have seen the pope kneeling kissing her feet (statue)… looks like worship to me. But then I do not read hearts… only God does that and I'm sure Jesus loved His mother and we should too.
God bless, andrea

PS: little of this has to do with Charismatic church today…. unless they are teaching another gospel… I lay it aside

 

[Alive_Again]

are fruits of the kingdom crying statues, and all of the other stuff i mentioned?

You're pointing to the "unusual manifestations". I want to point to what was being proclaimed where it is happening.

You take a Marian type apparition for an example. The children at Fatima were given a message. It is the message we want to look at if you want to validate anything. The message was contrary to the gospel. It points to another name for your soteria.

...we can't put God in a box, to defend protestant silly stuff...

It's one thing to say, "I think those signs are beyond what I bear witness to.".. OK, we'll put you down for one "no". That should kind of relieve you of the rut of abiding there.

It's the "religious" people who make signs validate the message. The toast looked like Mary or Jesus, or whoever. If anything, an unusual sign would want me to look closely at what is proclaimed, because the enemy has a plan and it isn't to preach the gospel.

Let's point away from the sign. The message should never get lost in anybody's sign (or song).

It's the message that locates you.

 

[Alive_Again]

...I'm fairly sure it only happened once but there was no teaching against it or for it in this particular (conservative) Charismatic church…. just a sense of awe and wonder by those who experienced it.

I wanted to comment on this Andrea. This is beautiful.

Another church had a glittery substance fall during worship… it stayed for an entire evening and then seemed to melt away… only leaving the sense of His presence being with them.

That's the key. Does it point to Him. Does it draw you closer?

This same church had the fire dept called on them 3-4 times one night bc the neighbors kept seeing fire over the church. It was pouring rain at the time…. also just a sense of awe that the Lord is so good He bothers to touch His children.

I remember a close brother who as a leader in the Catholic charismatic move went to a leaders group in Stuebenville OH. They were outside under some kind of tent or pavillioin. I think he said there were hedges all around and green grass. During worship a torrential downpour happened. After the message had been completed they stepped out from under the tent and the sun was shining and it was bone dry!

That, as a sign, would only supplement the message. They were blown away by the service and the sign had them all shaking their heads at the awesome power of God.

I don't ask the Lord to give me gems or gold dust but if I'm in worship and it falls… I'm not running from it… I will stay and worship He who loves us enough to die for us, forgive our sins, call us friend and sometimes send gold dust….

Right. I know the Mormons have the "burning bosom" thing that supposedly validates their "gospel"-- the Book of Mormon (I've experienced it myself). Deceiving spirits cause this to happen. We don't go by or be led by these manifestations, but rather we should look at the message and be guided by the Holy Spirit.

I know the whole Kat Kerr thing and some of Sid Roth's guests. I had such a powerful witness, a STRONG encouragement and seeds that continued to grow and bear fruit within me after I heard it that I KNOW God is in it. I've walked in it and saw the fruit in that. It's worth "holding fast" to.

I've located some of those books by guests on Sid's show and bore a lot of fruit in their messages. I would never have known about it unless they had been on Sid's show.

I found out about the show from Richard Sigmund's book about his time in Heaven. Richard was told he was going to meet Sid Roth in Heaven (as well as Paul Hegstrom).

Of course this is all fairy tales if you don't have a strong witness to it. Sometimes it is a slow awakening, but it is worth pursuing because of the fruits people are being energergized to.

Richard saw some of Paul's books in Heaven (and they weren't even written yet on earth). When he met Paul, he mentioned that some of those were in the works. Interestingly, Paul as done some scientific research that actually shows how your brain can be kind of remapped or "healed" by speaking (not thinking) the Word of God. Definitely worth looking into if you haven't heard of him.

Anyway, it's not about signs, but we should be looking for the real signs or manifestations of God that bear life and a witness to the truth. The signs should point to the awesome wonder of God.

...I want to see what Stephen saw…. I have seen the glory cloud and I want to stand in His midst and lift my voice and my hands and prostrate myself before my Lord and King…. and not have to worry that some uptight fear-mongering legalist will quench the Spirit of God simply bc he doesn't THINK GOD MOVES THAT WAY!!!!!

Awesome.

 

[Frogster]

I saw the levitating priest thing… disconcerting?? IDK what to think. If the priest were teaching this made him especially important in God's eyes and you should listen to him over scripture or there were variances in the gospel… no I would think it was a demon. From what I could see the poor guy was embarrassed when it happened…. makes me think it was demonic but I wasn't there. It was so many centuries ago. I have a difficult time taking it seriously.
I think I'd take the whole gold rosary beads in context also… Rosary beads are just memory tricks…. kind of wish sometimes we had something like that… instead of rubbing stones etc its an anti-anxiety exercise often in times of deep trouble people bring out the rosary to focus on prayer. Yes, I am troubled by prayers to mary?? If Mary could answer billions of prayers - she'd be God…. but when I speak to Catholics about this and they say, well you ask others to pray for you… NO I DON"T SPEAK TO THE DEAD… but if the Lord is looking at hearts…. and what they do is in ignorance or genuinely wanting to please the Lord… I think He sees their heart and love for Him.

I ask you…. do you think Protestants honor Mary appropriately, according to scripture?

This is just from Wiki but its relevant that even the reformers were not sure how to deal with Mary in the church context….
Some early Protestants venerated and honored Mary. Martin Luther said of Mary:
"the honor given to the mother of God has been rooted so deeply into the hearts of men that no one wants to hear any opposition to this celebration... We also grant that she should be honored, since we, according to Saint Paul's words [Romans 12] are indebted to show honor one to another for the sake of the One who dwells in us, Jesus Christ. Therefore we have an obligation to honor Mary. But be careful to give her honor that is fitting. Unfortunately, I worry that we give her all too high an honor for she is accorded much more esteem than she should be given or than she accounted to herself."
John Calvin said, "It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor." Zwingli said, "I esteem immensely the Mother of God" and "The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow".
Thus the idea of respect and high honour was not rejected by the first Protestants; but rather it was the matter of degrees of honor given to Mary, as the mother of Jesus, that Protestant Reformers were concerned with, and therefore the practical implications for Mariology are still a matter of debate.
John Wycliffe[edit]


A statue of Mary in the Protestant church of Saint-Pierre-le-Jeune, Strasbourg.
The pre-Lutheran reformer, John Wycliffe reflected the Marian spirit of the later Middle Ages in one of his earlier sermons: "It seems to me impossible that we should obtain the reward of Heaven without the help of Mary. There is no sex or age, no rank or position, of anyone in the whole human race, which has no need to call for the help of the Holy Virgin."[4]

The whole RCC Mary thing has always bothered me, I had a professor who was so excited that they might name her CO-REDEMPTRIX - which of course horrified me. As I noted earlier the RCC has rejected that idea… yes it bothers me that they often worship Mary… even though I hear them say they do not… I have seen the pope kneeling kissing her feet (statue)… looks like worship to me. But then I do not read hearts… only God does that and I'm sure Jesus loved His mother and we should too.
God bless, andrea

PS: little of this has to do with Charismatic church today…. unless they are teaching another gospel… I lay it aside

do you think that is the only levitating experience recorded?

You think it is a demon, as per red above?

what about the fact that the beads prayed to mary, are not "memeory tricks" and turned to a gold color?

What about people that actually have a literal bleeding host in their mouths?

what about crying statues?

why lay it aside, as per your comment above? It is strange stuff, yet you don't lay glitter aside?

Oh, by the way, do you think heaven has a meat locker, with spare body parts?

Do you think a man should sing to angels, and say how beautiful Michael is in his worship song?

In other words, I still sense vaguness...you are free to do so, and you are free to say listen to God over scriprure, but scripture is inspired, just for the record, you have not taken down one verse i posted, or any of my main points, that they all think they are anointed, that they all say "there are miracles in the bible", so surely all is cool"...


so those people like to mention the bible, but when i quote it, about false apostles, angels of light, etc, then they don't like the Bible!

So again, if you could just give me a yes or no, to the questions above, I will have a better understanding of you.

You say it has little do do with the Charismatic church, but you are incorrect, it does, because it is the extreme, silly, and strange I speak of in the charismatic churches, just like crying statues, and besides, there are actually Cath charismatics who practice this.

 

[Frogster]

You're pointing to the "unusual manifestations". I want to point to what was being proclaimed where it is happening.

You take a Marian type apparition for an example. The children at Fatima were given a message. It is the message we want to look at if you want to validate anything. The message was contrary to the gospel. It points to another name for your soteria.


It's one thing to say, "I think those signs are beyond what I bear witness to.".. OK, we'll put you down for one "no". That should kind of relieve you of the rut of abiding there.

It's the "religious" people who make signs validate the message. The toast looked like Mary or Jesus, or whoever. If anything, an unusual sign would want me to look closely at what is proclaimed, because the enemy has a plan and it isn't to preach the gospel.

Let's point away from the sign. The message should never get lost in anybody's sign (or song).

It's the message that locates you.

I posted alot of text, did peter, paul, or Jesus, let the touch not my anointed verse stop them from their confrontations with false teachers?


Well, the op question? Just because there are wonders in the Bible, does that mean everyone is telling the truth, about their "wonder"?


Do you believe in all of the Catholic stuff i posted, and for that matter stuff in eastern religions, and their 'wonders'? Hey, we can't put God in a box, lets just introject it all....

Said with all due respect, no offense....


see, I post facts, and text.....

You think not to call em out, fine, but i got text to back it up, where you hings your whole argument on the touch not verse, all after we see david did come at saul, and there is text to confront false teachers..sooo..just sayinnnn...

 

[Andrea411]

do you think that is the only levitating experience recorded?

You think it is a demon, as per red above?

what about the fact that the beads prayed to mary, are not "memeory tricks" and turned to a gold color?

What about people that actually have a literal bleeding host in their mouths?

what about crying statues?

why lat it aside? It is strange stuff, yet you don't lay glitter aside?

Oh, by the way, do you think heaven has a meat locker, with spare body parts?

Do you think a man should sing to angels, and say how beautiful Michael is in his worship song?

In other words, I still sense vaguness...you are free to, and you are free to say listen to God over scriprure, but scripture is inspired, just for the record, you have not taken down one verse i posted, or any of my main points, that they all think they are anointed, that they all say "there are miracles in the bible", so surely all is cool...


so those people like to mention the bible, but when i quote it, about false apostles, angels of light, etc, then they don't like the Bible!

So again, if you could just give me a yes or no, to the questions above, I will have a btter understanding of you.

You say it has little do do with the Charismatic church, but you are incorrect, it does, because it is the extreme, silly, and strange I speak of in the charismatic churches, just like crying statues, and besides, there are actually cath charismatics who practice this.

all of the levitating, blood, or rosary beads were things you pulled off the internet… about RCC experiences prior to the Charismatic Renewal… therefore nothing to do with Charismatic churches today. Talk to me about vague??

I don't follow false apostles bc I don't follow any man…

I don't have to pin point my position unlike you I am Charismatic… I believe in the gifts operating today and I believe in the sovereignty of God to speak in any language or through an angel or through gold, oil, feathers… or any way He wants. When it happens to me I will use wisdom and discernment, I fear no man nor angel to lead from the path set before me bc it is Jesus I follow.
I think you represent what is wrong with the - Charismatic church today…. man pleasers….. fearful… lack of trust and faith in Christ to preserve you…
the Charismatic churches today are not a lot different then mainline churches anymore….
as far as being vague "they" is as vague as it gets … I can't answer to they…. who are they…. don't tell me NAR….. whose in NAR today?
You don't know one Charismatic preacher that you like….

I think there should be a term for the post-charismatic church…. like the way we distinguish the mainline churches… we all know what that really means… mainline is code for cold dead church. So today we have Charismatic churches who desperately want to be accepted by the brethren … so they compromise the power for conformity so people like you don't accuse them of following strange doctrines of demons. Do you understand what it is to quench the Spirit??????
Jesus never forced Himself on anyone, He always walked out of town or got into a boat or in a house where people had to seek Him ….. the Holy Spirit doesn't go where He is not wanted and it doesn't take a lot of you 'unbelieving Believers' to quench the Spirit and make seekers question their pastors, gifts and Words of wisdom given…. that is my personal experience, I can speak to that… Scripturally… the gifts are always available in His church. We just don't avail ourselves of them.
When was the last time you laid hands on someone? When was the last time you wept at the alter or fell on your face in worship?

this was my Facebook post this morning….
Psalm 42
New Life Version (NLV)
42 As the deer desires rivers of water, so my soul desires You, O God. 2 My soul is thirsty for God, for the living God. When will I come and meet with God? 3 My tears have been my food day and night, while men say to me all day long, “Where is your God?” 4 These things I remember, and I pour out my soul within me. For I used to go with many people and lead them to the house of God, with the voice of thankful joy, among the many happy people.

5 Why are you sad, O my soul? Why have you become troubled within me? Hope in God, for I will praise Him again for His help of being near me. 6 O my God, my soul is troubled within me. So I remember You from the land of the Jordan and the tops of Hermon, from Mount Mizar. 7 Sea calls to sea at the sound of Your waterfalls. All Your waves have rolled over me. 8 The Lord will send His loving-kindness in the day. And His song will be with me in the night, a prayer to the God of my life.

9 I will say to God my Rock, “Why have You forgotten me? Why do I have sorrow because those who hate me come against me with power?” 10 As a breaking of my bones, those who hate me speak sharp words to me. All day long they say to me, “Where is your God?” 11 Why are you sad, O my soul? Why have you become troubled within me? Hope in God, for I will yet praise Him, my help and my God.

I remember being in church and seeing the glory cloud, where the praise and worship was so powerful, a thousand people wept…. my soul is crying out for these moments of awe and wonder, why is the church so dry? Its like I get a glimpse once in awhile and all it does it make me thirsty

LOL… I wonder what all my atheist friends think…. but it doesn't stop me from sharing… bc its the Lord that stirs hearts….

 

[Frogster]

At least Rodney Brown, in Florida, is not afraid to say the dust, fake gems, and feathers, angel luncheons are not from God, and he is very charismatic, all while not being politically correct.

Paul fought the collective reality of Judaism, big time!


See, it's easy to just emotinally want to be non confrontational, but it takes guts to fight, while after being be told one has a jezebel spirit, to just laugh it off...


But this is another point raised by me, that has not been rebutted scripturally, or even with anything substantial, the simple fact, that those who want the extreme silly stuff, need to accept the Catholic stuff too, in all it's fullness...so lets all get a crying statue for the new year.

 

[Frogster]

all of the levitating, blood, or rosary beads were things you pulled off the internet… about RCC experiences prior to the Charismatic Renewal… therefore nothing to do with Charismatic churches today. Talk to me about vague??

I don't follow false apostles bc I don't follow any man…

I don't have to pin point my position unlike you I am Charismatic… I believe in the gifts operating today and I believe in the sovereignty of God to speak in any language or through an angel or through gold, oil, feathers… or any way He wants. When it happens to me I will use wisdom and discernment, I fear no man nor angel to lead from the path set before me bc it is Jesus I follow.
I think you represent what is wrong with the - Charismatic church today…. man pleasers….. fearful… lack of trust and faith in Christ to preserve you…
the Charismatic churches today are not a lot different then mainline churches anymore….
as far as being vague "they" is as vague as it gets … I can't answer to they…. who are they…. don't tell me NAR….. whose in NAR today?
You don't know one Charismatic preacher that you like….

I think there should be a term for the post-charismatic church…. like the way we distinguish the mainline churches… we all know what that really means… mainline is code for cold dead church. So today we have Charismatic churches who desperately want to be accepted by the brethren … so they compromise the power for conformity so people like you don't accuse them of following strange doctrines of demons. Do you understand what it is to quench the Spirit??????
Jesus never forced Himself on anyone, He always walked out of town or got into a boat or in a house where people had to seek Him ….. the Holy Spirit doesn't go where He is not wanted and it doesn't take a lot of you 'unbelieving Believers' to quench the Spirit and make seekers question their pastors, gifts and Words of wisdom given…. that is my personal experience, I can speak to that… Scripturally… the gifts are always available in His church. We just don't avail ourselves of them.
When was the last time you laid hands on someone? When was the last time you wept at the alter or fell on your face in worship?

this was my Facebook post this morning….
Psalm 42
New Life Version (NLV)
42 As the deer desires rivers of water, so my soul desires You, O God. 2 My soul is thirsty for God, for the living God. When will I come and meet with God? 3 My tears have been my food day and night, while men say to me all day long, “Where is your God?” 4 These things I remember, and I pour out my soul within me. For I used to go with many people and lead them to the house of God, with the voice of thankful joy, among the many happy people.

5 Why are you sad, O my soul? Why have you become troubled within me? Hope in God, for I will praise Him again for His help of being near me. 6 O my God, my soul is troubled within me. So I remember You from the land of the Jordan and the tops of Hermon, from Mount Mizar. 7 Sea calls to sea at the sound of Your waterfalls. All Your waves have rolled over me. 8 The Lord will send His loving-kindness in the day. And His song will be with me in the night, a prayer to the God of my life.

9 I will say to God my Rock, “Why have You forgotten me? Why do I have sorrow because those who hate me come against me with power?” 10 As a breaking of my bones, those who hate me speak sharp words to me. All day long they say to me, “Where is your God?” 11 Why are you sad, O my soul? Why have you become troubled within me? Hope in God, for I will yet praise Him, my help and my God.

I remember being in church and seeing the glory cloud, where the praise and worship was so powerful, a thousand people wept…. my soul is crying out for these moments of awe and wonder, why is the church so dry? Its like I get a glimpse once in awhile and all it does it make me thirsty

LOL… I wonder what all my atheist friends think…. but it doesn't stop me from sharing… bc its the Lord that stirs hearts….

excuse me, but you may want to recant the red above, i am charismatic, and you may be suprised to know, many like me, hold my view against the silly stuff.

and you don't think NAR is around today?

again, you can't rebutt my text, or what i do here...I personally am not an emotional poster, or a sentimentality poster, and that is allowed here...

actually, the quenchers of the Spirit are those who mock the Spirit, by attributing EVERYTHING as from Him, and forget that he is into orderly worship, so please mull that over, thanks, be blessed, frog.

 

[Frogster]

all of the levitating, blood, or rosary beads were things you pulled off the internet… about RCC experiences prior to the Charismatic Renewal… therefore nothing to do with Charismatic churches today. Talk to me about vague??

I don't follow false apostles bc I don't follow any man…

I don't have to pin point my position unlike you I am Charismatic… I believe in the gifts operating today and I believe in the sovereignty of God to speak in any language or through an angel or through gold, oil, feathers… or any way He wants. When it happens to me I will use wisdom and discernment, I fear no man nor angel to lead from the path set before me bc it is Jesus I follow.
I think you represent what is wrong with the - Charismatic church today…. man pleasers….. fearful… lack of trust and faith in Christ to preserve you…
the Charismatic churches today are not a lot different then mainline churches anymore….
as far as being vague "they" is as vague as it gets … I can't answer to they…. who are they…. don't tell me NAR….. whose in NAR today?
You don't know one Charismatic preacher that you like….

I think there should be a term for the post-charismatic church…. like the way we distinguish the mainline churches… we all know what that really means… mainline is code for cold dead church. So today we have Charismatic churches who desperately want to be accepted by the brethren … so they compromise the power for conformity so people like you don't accuse them of following strange doctrines of demons. Do you understand what it is to quench the Spirit??????
Jesus never forced Himself on anyone, He always walked out of town or got into a boat or in a house where people had to seek Him ….. the Holy Spirit doesn't go where He is not wanted and it doesn't take a lot of you 'unbelieving Believers' to quench the Spirit and make seekers question their pastors, gifts and Words of wisdom given…. that is my personal experience, I can speak to that… Scripturally… the gifts are always available in His church. We just don't avail ourselves of them.
When was the last time you laid hands on someone? When was the last time you wept at the alter or fell on your face in worship?

this was my Facebook post this morning….
Psalm 42
New Life Version (NLV)
42 As the deer desires rivers of water, so my soul desires You, O God. 2 My soul is thirsty for God, for the living God. When will I come and meet with God? 3 My tears have been my food day and night, while men say to me all day long, “Where is your God?” 4 These things I remember, and I pour out my soul within me. For I used to go with many people and lead them to the house of God, with the voice of thankful joy, among the many happy people.

5 Why are you sad, O my soul? Why have you become troubled within me? Hope in God, for I will praise Him again for His help of being near me. 6 O my God, my soul is troubled within me. So I remember You from the land of the Jordan and the tops of Hermon, from Mount Mizar. 7 Sea calls to sea at the sound of Your waterfalls. All Your waves have rolled over me. 8 The Lord will send His loving-kindness in the day. And His song will be with me in the night, a prayer to the God of my life.

9 I will say to God my Rock, “Why have You forgotten me? Why do I have sorrow because those who hate me come against me with power?” 10 As a breaking of my bones, those who hate me speak sharp words to me. All day long they say to me, “Where is your God?” 11 Why are you sad, O my soul? Why have you become troubled within me? Hope in God, for I will yet praise Him, my help and my God.

I remember being in church and seeing the glory cloud, where the praise and worship was so powerful, a thousand people wept…. my soul is crying out for these moments of awe and wonder, why is the church so dry? Its like I get a glimpse once in awhile and all it does it make me thirsty

LOL… I wonder what all my atheist friends think…. but it doesn't stop me from sharing… bc its the Lord that stirs hearts….

you asked when was the last time I layed hands...

about a week ago, the guy was out of work with bad vertabraes, until the frog layed hands on him, but after this, like Paul, i will not talk of what God does through me, lest i be like the false apostles of corinth, and NAR...

red above, paleeeease lets like act like they are gone, I wish they were, but they are not.

 

[Alive_Again]

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."
Prov 18:13

We don't want to look like fools either way. It's important to properly examine a matter before rendering a judgment. That means actually look at what is being said. What kind judge would you want if you were being accused of a crime? You'd want one that would at least examine the case.

Since we know the scripture about judging and reaping what we sow, we'll get exactly the same kind of judgement that we judge.

"The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him? But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed. Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,) Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet. And every man went unto his own house."
John 7:46-53

We have a scriptural example from the text where:

• The anointed truth was being presented;
• There was an accusation of deception;
• There was an exhortation (by means of a question) to at least hear the matter;
• That was set aside in favor of pointing to an incomplete knowledge of the "facts";
• Finally, pointing to scripture for a "confirmation" of their ignorance.

Surely we don't want to be guilty of this! We don't want to be fools. Can we not at least research what is being said where these signs are occurring and stop the strife and accusation?

 

[TasManOfGod]

Shame on us for having pharisees in our midst

 

[Source Scripture]

Please, I am trying to enjoy myself while following this thread, and watching frogster make a clear case against the extremes, and the extremely false teachers. His important points, have not been addressed properly, nor has his Biblical analysis been proved wrong, to support his actions and views here. So please, don't let the thread get personal and go in a downward spiral, with these silly jeers that are about a fellow member dragging out the tired old pharisee and fool words, indictaing a loss of argument by his opponents, and possibly frustration. When someone is losing an argument, sadly name calling is the first indicator. Instead, meet his points head on, confront his hermenuetics, which frankly speaking have clearly proved his case, thanks, Source Scripture.

 

[Andrea411]

Please, I am trying to enjoy myself while following this thread, and watching frogster make a clear case against the extremes, and the extremely false teachers. His important points, have not been addressed properly, nor has his Biblical analysis been proved wrong, to support his actions and views here. So please, don't let the thread get personal and go in a downward spiral, with these silly jeers that are about a fellow member dragging out the tired old pharisee and fool words, indictaing a loss of argument by his opponents, and possibly frustration. When someone is losing an argument, sadly name calling is the first indicator. Instead, meet his points head on, confront his hermenuetics, which frankly speaking have clearly proved his case, thanks, Source Scripture.

Thank you for the disclosure bc that explains a lot. I haven't heard anything scripturally sound that refutes those things Frogsters lumps all together with some kind of demonic heresy. On one thread it priests levitating and on another its NAR and false apostles. No one can deny that there are false things that happen in churches … ALL CHURCHES. The most false thing is the church where nothing happens.
Your partner tries to get people to admit that such and such is false and then wants to apply that to all our experiences…
Frogster will not say what he himself agrees with, therefore I can't figure out even what the point of most of his posts are?? Is it to just say that if your not sitting quietly and reverently in church then your false. Are all apostle's false… how do we know. Its not my problem bc I'd have to be very convinced to listen to anyone who calls themselves an apostle… yet I have known people who I truly believe walked in an apostleship. But of course they'd never call themselves apostles…. planting churches, spreading the gospel, training pastors, healing the sick, feeding the poor…. no reward other then the Lord is gracious… to me that is an apostle.
I asked Frogster repeatedly to name someone he admires who is a Charismatic leader….. …… silence.
I don't know that some people haven't thrown gold glitter on the floor… I wasn't there, but I do know a church where the glory dust fell all over people and did not disappear until the next day. I do know people who have been miraculously healed and others who had faith to believe and were not. Does that mean all healing is fake… only atheists and anti-charismatcs use that formula…
when we have these churches so fearful of anything they don't approve of … (and you can't keep any two people happy), how do you expect the church to learn to move in the prophetic when the naysayers voice is the loudest in the room….
I know a woman who told me they had the gold oil all over them in worship… no reason to lie… perfectly lovely woman who I know very well…. I wasn't there but I believe her. The fruit of it was that they were touched and He was glorified…. so no problem for me… now if a ministry wants to sell an idea or teach that this is proof of divine… something… then I have a problem. But notice… its me with the problem, not everyone else.
I have a problem with cold dead churches and people who judge others bc they don't approve of their theological bent…. as long as its not another gospel… then I don't have a problem…
God bless, andrea

 

[AbbaLove]

Your partner tries to get people to admit that such and such is false and then wants to apply that to all our experiences…

Some unbelieving Believers are being further indoctrinated (e.g. Strange Fire by John MacArthur) to actually believe that their inexperience trumps the experiences of Holy Spirit empowered Believers (e.g. Authentic Fire by Dr. Michael Brown).

 

[Andrea411]

excuse me, but you may want to recant the red above, i am charismatic, and you may be suprised to know, many like me, hold my view against the silly stuff.

and you don't think NAR is around today?

again, you can't rebutt my text, or what i do here...I personally am not an emotional poster, or a sentimentality poster, and that is allowed here...

actually, the quenchers of the Spirit are those who mock the Spirit, by attributing EVERYTHING as from Him, and forget that he is into orderly worship, so please mull that over, thanks, be blessed, frog.

I know you say you are Charismatic and I've been hearing that a lot but if your willing to limit the Holy Spirit to your own interpretation of the scriptures then how can the Holy Spirit manifest in your midst when you've told Him what you'll allow?? {my thought is that if I tell God He is only allowed to move in my house when its convenient/comfortable for me…. I don't think He'll bother me at all}. I personally, (opinion) think the Lord uses Holy Laughter and being slain in the Spirit just to pull the rug out from under some of these uptight so-called Charismatic people. I myself have never been slain, I've buckled but not slain… yet I know it happens, my daughter at 10 was slain in the Spirit and I've known people who were on the floor frozen for hours…. I've probably seen thousands….. but not for me…lol. There came a move against it about 10 years ago…. rarely see it now… yes lots of people went down bc they thought they should, some just were submitting, others were pushed, but that never negated the reality of the ones that were truly moved by the Holy Spirit. It stopped when people started attributing it to Satan…. just like they do now with the manifestations that occur in various places. Sorry but the Lord will let you dry up before He'll allow you to attribute His work to the devil.
So no I don't recant, I think there should be another name for those people who desire to control the manifestations until they approve… post-charismatic…. or reformed-charismatics…. how about skeptical-charismatics, as opposed to LORD JUST TOUCH ME-Charismatics.
I told the Lord today, I didn't care if He wanted to drop gems in my house… or gold dust… I don't even care if there real or its glitter…. I would just love it and no one has to believe me or approve bc its just Him I desire…. so now I'm waiting expectantly…. but then I spend most of my life seeing God's miracles…maybe He doesn't slay me bc He doesn't have to…. I see Him all over… every Wednesday for years I had a prayer group and very single Wed, afternoon the sun would shine into my kitchen while we were in prayer… even on rainy days… it would always stop just long enough for the sun to warm you a little …. not something to write home about but our lil group was always just glad the Lord would bless our time…..
Recently we had a huge problem with our lake…. DEP (Dept. Environmental Protection) was going to force us to drain it… but the Lord told me to begin blessing the DEP and thanking them for being involved… (woke me up to tell me that). I came downstairs to tell my husband…. bc we were so worried. He said the Lord had told him the same thing… that was a big change since we are both NOT FANS of the state of NJ DEP…. long story short…. one person after another came into our lives and blessed us… the final bill was $7500 including for the engineer…. bills paid. DEP is happy so are we and so are the thousands of koi in our lake. It took a whole crew of men with huge pieces of equipment to remove all the dirt… reset the pipe and bring in all those concrete blocks… before and after. Sorry for the double pic but I'm just learning how to do this… neat. But the point is the Lord works in many ways… and absolutely everyone who comes on my property gets to hear about the miracle of our home anyway and how the Lord did a miracle even when we got it…. we paid 160 thousand for a piece of property worth the tax assessor said was worth a million…. but the Lord had told me and I believed Him. So its not gems…. or is it…LOL
God bless,

 

[Alive_Again]

I think it would be excellent to refine the process of discernment. To look very carefuly and to have an open mindset, but one that is not so open as to just receive everything.

I know the Lord promises to lead us into all truth. There should be fruit in the things that we judge (or weigh for truth). Some things are not for us at a certain time. Certain foundational precepts have to be laid before we are ready.

The Holy Spirit told Gary Carpenter in answer to a question, that he was asking a "roof" question, when he still needed the walls put in place. After that come the walls. No roof without walls.

I bought a book about the secret place some years ago. I'd try to read it and knew I was a long way from the kind of walk he described. I picked it up again a couple of years ago and I could tell I was a lot closer, but still not there yet. We'll likely come across things from time to time that we're not ready for.

Still a LOT of really good stuff out there for the church to receive and rejoice over. The pattern of being non-judgmental when you hear it, to praying about the truth and trusting and acknowledging guidance, then bringing it into the light with your brothers and sisters (or pastor), and walking out the revelation and judging the accompanying fruits. If you're attempting to fellowship with godly counsel is to hang out with judgmental types, the you're probably selling yourself short.

There will be many false signs coming. One of the things Kat Kerr said was that in coming years, it will be as the days of Noah where the spirit realm interfaced with the physical realm. It was for the worse then with the Nephilim. But primarily for the better with manifestations of the kingdom running our race with us.

At the same time she was saying that there will be "good witches" teaching people to levitate. It will be an attempted "bypass" of the Lordship of Jesus toward "good magic". That's why the Harry Potter stuff is bad for now. It is sowing seeds in people to receive these things.

There's a positive side to all of this, and that is to not be a passive "judge"; also not to be pre-judgmental and to start reversing some vows and judgments we've made that dispose us to become sarcastic and overly skeptical (without good reason).

 

[Alive_Again]

At least Rodney Brown, in Florida, is not afraid to say the dust, fake gems, and feathers, angel luncheons are not from God, and he is very charismatic, all while not being politically correct.

This would be interesting to see. I would like to see where that is quoted, and in reference to who's manifestation.

I remember hearing a recording of some worship where angels joined in. (It's on the Net.) Man, I was really enjoying it.

See, it's easy to just emotinally want to be non confrontational...

Of course we've been talking about using wisdom in not uttering hasty generalizations that make ALL manifestations counterfeit, and ESPECIALLY not speaking directly against individuals in a defamatory way.

And NOT using scripture to justify doing it.

...that those who want the extreme silly stuff, need to accept the Catholic stuff too, in all it's fullness...so lets all get a crying statue for the new year.

That's another generalization (not a simple fact). That's like saying Moses' sign was not legit because pharoah's magicians did the same sign.

If the Catholics claimed some kind of angelic apparition, I'd want to hear the message, because even the devils don't want to just raise spiritual awareness, they want to lead people away from the truth.

 

[Frogster]

Please, I am trying to enjoy myself while following this thread, and watching frogster make a clear case against the extremes, and the extremely false teachers. His important points, have not been addressed properly, nor has his Biblical analysis been proved wrong, to support his actions and views here. So please, don't let the thread get personal and go in a downward spiral, with these silly jeers that are about a fellow member dragging out the tired old pharisee and fool words, indictaing a loss of argument by his opponents, and possibly frustration. When someone is losing an argument, sadly name calling is the first indicator. Instead, meet his points head on, confront his hermenuetics, which frankly speaking have clearly proved his case, thanks, Source Scripture.

love it! thanks for a true post, but you forgot to mention how quickly some love to call others jezebel, violating thier own rules, as they quickly critique the frog, and call me denomic names, as they say I should not challenge stuff...

So they don't like what i say as I call out false apostles, and crazy things, because i cut to the quick, but they sure don't hesitate to do the same to me, calling me jezebel, or a pharisee, or foolish, doing to me, what they say i do, as they think it is wrong, so their own words condemn them!

There is a word for that, one that you know, without me saying it.