Can I question some things I hear, in our Charismatic movement?

[JimB]

True enough, but then some people who hear from God are wise enough to keep it to themselves. Not everything God tells me is for public consumption.

 

[TillICollapse]

Although I think that could be the case at times, I think sometimes people are just wrong, the real problems come in when they become "sure" of their gifts and then they are open to all sorts of deception.

IMO, this is part of learning discernment ... when a person is wrong, their "source" isn't what they thought it was. Perhaps another spirit (one telling falsehoods, or misleading them), perhaps their own feelings and notions, etc.

As far as being sure of their gifts ... imo, a gift is something that is given to a person for them to use freely as they wish. Thus, if the gift is from God, that person will bear fruit of that gift whenever they use it. I don't want to say it's a cart blanche to do what you wish ... but I would almost say that. It's a "Whatever you do with it, I will have your back," kind of thing.

I kind of agree about "when people are sure of their gifts", however I think people confuse having a gift, with being empowered to do something. Being empowered is more like being "loaned" what you need at the time lol. If you've never played basketball before, and suddenly are empowered to make every 3 pointer you shoot on the court ... but it's only for 3 days that you can do that, that is not a "gift". I think a gift is when you are given that ability to play ball suddenly, and you can play it here or there or wherever you see fit.

I get it - People who say they hear from God don't always have it right!!

But do people that never hear from God ever have it right??

Yes I believe they can have it right, i.e. Love. Love doesn't have to have spoken words with it in order to be heard.

 

[Andrea411]

This non-inflammatory post, it is broad, and general, not directed at anyone on our forum, but to the events in the movement, and the debate in the movement.


Often when I, or others challenge or doubt, a prophecy, a person, or miraculous stories, we are met with with, sorry, but what I now view as redundant reply.

The person not liking what I say, will reply by saying…”there are miracles in the Bible!”

To that I say, sure, but we know they are true, because they are in the Bible. But why does that mean I or others can’t doubt, or question, some of these, elaborate stories, just because there are miracles in the bible?


There are quite a few texts to prove that people, in the church, “from your own number”, men (and I guess women) will arise, and be wolves, and the motive is shown, to draw disciples for themselves. What better way to do that, gather disciples, than present yourself, as this super powerful person, with all kinds of great secrets to the higher spiritual life?


Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.

Serving their own appetites, preying on the naïve, who believe everything, usually young converts, are often awed by flattery, as some sell prophecies, or certainly free style wield them around, a little to quickly, in my opinion..

Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

Said by Peter also, making up stories, and greed is the motive, as they collect funds, and sell their wares, books, CD’s, conference fees etc. These that call themselves 'teachers".

2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Ok, so can I test everything, as the text says to do, do I weigh prophecies like the text says to do, or just sit back, and think to myself, well, there are miracles in the Bible, so these folks have to be telling the truth?

Thanks, frog.

….when the negativity of your message so far out weighs anything positive you bring to the charismatic forums - there is a problem with the messenger.
I have yet to see you say anything positive except to pat someone on the back that agrees with you.
When that happens it blunts your message, even when you are correct. I don't really listen to you or take you seriously. Some people just get off on putting others down…

I heard a saying once… there are two ways to have the best house in town - one is to build the best house the other is to tear down all the nicer houses….

sad… really and such a waste. Bring joy where ever you go and people will want to hear what you have to say. After all Jesus only got angry with the religious folk who criticized people who weren't as religious as they thought themselves…. whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones….

Educate, exhort and encourage ….. shouldn't be that difficult to have them all combined

 

[contango]

This non-inflammatory post, it is broad, and general, not directed at anyone on our forum, but to the events in the movement, and the debate in the movement.


Often when I, or others challenge or doubt, a prophecy, a person, or miraculous stories, we are met with with, sorry, but what I now view as redundant reply.

The person not liking what I say, will reply by saying…”there are miracles in the Bible!”

To that I say, sure, but we know they are true, because they are in the Bible. But why does that mean I or others can’t doubt, or question, some of these, elaborate stories, just because there are miracles in the bible?


There are quite a few texts to prove that people, in the church, “from your own number”, men (and I guess women) will arise, and be wolves, and the motive is shown, to draw disciples for themselves. What better way to do that, gather disciples, than present yourself, as this super powerful person, with all kinds of great secrets to the higher spiritual life?


Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.

Serving their own appetites, preying on the naïve, who believe everything, usually young converts, are often awed by flattery, as some sell prophecies, or certainly free style wield them around, a little to quickly, in my opinion..

Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

Said by Peter also, making up stories, and greed is the motive, as they collect funds, and sell their wares, books, CD’s, conference fees etc. These that call themselves 'teachers".

2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Ok, so can I test everything, as the text says to do, do I weigh prophecies like the text says to do, or just sit back, and think to myself, well, there are miracles in the Bible, so these folks have to be telling the truth?

Thanks, frog.

Miracles can and do happen but that doesn't mean all miracles are from God. Some miracles are from God, some are from the devil, and many miracles can be fabricated.

All apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples.

The Bible is very clear on this matter:

1Th 5:19-21 NKJV Do not quench the Spirit. (20) Do not despise prophecies. (21) Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Test ALL things, hold fast what is good. If anyone doesn't want their words or deeds tested my first thought would be to wonder why.

 

[K2K]

True enough, but then some people who hear from God are wise enough to keep it to themselves. Not everything God tells me is for public consumption.

It is wise to ask God what should be shared and what shouldn't be, but we also have an instruction to shout on the house top what is whispered in our ear.

So perhaps not everything should be shared, but considering the instruction, our problem is usually not because we have a tendacy to share too much, but rather a tendacy to not share!!

 

[K2K]

Miracles can and do happen but that doesn't mean all miracles are from God. Some miracles are from God, some are from the devil, and many miracles can be fabricated.

All apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples.

The Bible is very clear on this matter:

1Th 5:19-21 NKJV Do not quench the Spirit. (20) Do not despise prophecies. (21) Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Test ALL things, hold fast what is good. If anyone doesn't want their words or deeds tested my first thought would be to wonder why.

Only God is good!!

So we are holding fast to God!!

So we test things by taking them to God!!

We don't test them by leaning on our understanding, but we take all things to God in prayer, right?

So who is the one not wanting their words or deeds tested? Isn't it the one who doesn't that things to God?

And so who is the one taking things to God? Isn't it the one telling others to take things to God?

 

[TillICollapse]

It is wise to ask God what should be shared and what shouldn't be, but we also have an instruction to shout on the house top what is whispered in our ear.

So perhaps not everything should be shared, but considering the instruction, our problem is usually not because we have a tendacy to share too much, but rather a tendacy to not share!!

Out of curiosity, what is your concept of "revelation" ? How would you define it ?

 

[K2K]

Out of curiosity, what is your concept of "revelation" ? How would you define it ?

Fair enough:

Between the posts and right before coming back to see this, the Lord was reminding me of something that He had gone over with me a couple of years ago.

That morning, with my normal time with the Father and after praying the Lord's prayer, He told me to go to Ezkeil chapter 3. And since He had told me to always have a bible handy when I sit with Him in the morning, I opened to Ezekiel 3. He then ask me to start reaing, and as I did He also started reading, so that I could hear both my voice and His voice inside me reading the passage. Except that He was not reading the passage, but instead He was taking the passage and personalizing to me!!

He was saying, 'You are not being sent to a peole of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to a choosen people.... I am sending you to them who should listen to you; yet they will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me'

So I was reading what was actually written, but He was telling me personally what His plan was for me, which was basically the same that He gave to Ezekiel.

He went on to specifically tell me that He had made my face as hard as their face and my forehead and hard as theirs.

Ez 3:9 Like emery harder that flint I have made your forehead.

And He told me to sit with them, and that it would be for a time, and He continued to go over those passages in the weeks that followed.

So who am I sitting with that should listen but do not listen? And has my message really been different that this? So I give examples of what I have heard, but do they doubt?

But note this! At the end of chapter 3 it is written:

But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you will say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God,' He who hears, let him hear; and he who refusesl let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house.

Ultimately everyone has a right to seek God and what He has to say to them. Jesus Christ went to the cross for that purpose. Yet you also have a right to refuse to listen to what He tells you. And having scriptures is not the same thing as listening to Him. Yeah it is similar! But it can also be as different as night and day.

Reading is not hearing. When you read the Scriptures, you should also be seeking to hear what the Lord has to say to you personally. Then you will have a revelation of Jesus Christ!!

 

[contango]

Only God is good!!

So we are holding fast to God!!

So we test things by taking them to God!!

We don't test them by leaning on our understanding, but we take all things to God in prayer, right?

So who is the one not wanting their words or deeds tested? Isn't it the one who doesn't that things to God?

And so who is the one taking things to God? Isn't it the one telling others to take things to God?

We can also test things against Scripture. If something contradicts Scripture that's usually a pretty good sign we can leave it well alone.

Some people like to test things based on whether they "feel good" or not. That can be a bad thing - we might use a sense of discernment to know that something just "doesn't feel right" but to rely on feelings alone is to invite all sorts of dodgy conclusions.

People who like to tickle ears and tell people what they want to hear will usually create a "feel good factor" in their audience, even if what they are talking is complete bunk.

 

[TillICollapse]

Fair enough:

Between the posts and right before coming back to see this, the Lord was reminding me of something that He had gone over with me a couple of years ago.

That morning, with my normal time with the Father and after praying the Lord's prayer, He told me to go to Ezkeil chapter 3. And since He had told me to always have a bible handy when I sit with Him in the morning, I opened to Ezekiel 3. He then ask me to start reaing, and as I did He also started reading, so that I could hear both my voice and His voice inside me reading the passage. Except that He was not reading the passage, but instead He was taking the passage and personalizing to me!!

He was saying, 'You are not being sent to a peole of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to a choosen people.... I am sending you to them who should listen to you; yet they will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me'

So I was reading what was actually written, but He was telling me personally what His plan was for me, which was basically the same that He gave to Ezekiel.

He went on to specifically tell me that He had made my face as hard as their face and my forehead and hard as theirs.

Ez 3:9 Like emery harder that flint I have made your forehead.

And He told me to sit with them, and that it would be for a time, and He continued to go over those passages in the weeks that followed.

So who am I sitting with that should listen but do not listen? And has my message really been different that this? So I give examples of what I have heard, but do they doubt?

But note this! At the end of chapter 3 it is written:

But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you will say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God,' He who hears, let him hear; and he who refusesl let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house.

Ultimately everyone has a right to seek God and what He has to say to them. Jesus Christ went to the cross for that purpose. Yet you also have a right to refuse to listen to what He tells you. And having scriptures is not the same thing as listening to Him. Yeah it is similar! But it can also be as different as night and day.

Reading is not hearing. When you read the Scriptures, you should also be seeking to hear what the Lord has to say to you personally. Then you will have a revelation of Jesus Christ!!

Yes ... shortly after I was filled with the Holy Spirit for the first time, and heard God's voice for the first time, I spent about 2 years speaking with the Lord this way, asking Him about every single thing, etc. I ran everything by the Lord first, and I waited until I got His word and guidance on things, etc. Your posts largely say this over and over ... "Ask God and get your answers directly from God", etc. Like I said, I did this exact thing for about two years. I was shown this exact chapter as well ... I even have it highlighted in my Bible, and I had those verses printed out and placed as an insert in my Bible for the longest time.

Would you like to answer my original question now ?

 

[Ajax 777]

We can also test things against Scripture. If something contradicts Scripture that's usually a pretty good sign we can leave it well alone.

Some people like to test things based on whether they "feel good" or not. That can be a bad thing - we might use a sense of discernment to know that something just "doesn't feel right" but to rely on feelings alone is to invite all sorts of dodgy conclusions.

People who like to tickle ears and tell people what they want to hear will usually create a "feel good factor" in their audience, even if what they are talking is complete bunk.

Well said.

It's never a good thing when we inflate ourselves without cause, exalting ourselves in our own hearts to a place of imagined greater intimacy with the Holy Most High than He would keep with His own character and testimony concerning Himself and His Son.

It's the foundation of delusion and a root of many kinds of rebellion to lift ourselves up in our hearts, and EXCEEDINGLY easy to do. There are even some here who call the practice noble. But we know through the scriptures what God's own testimony through the Apostles is concerning the state of man in these last days, a warning everyone seems to want to apply toward everyone else, but never to themselves.

I think many people who rely on their own feelings and intuition, calling any voice in their head "God" because they desire great things for themselves, do not realize the warning about lambs made fat for the day of slaughter. We may see only as through a glass darkly, but we see well enough to trust Him if we believe His words, the scriptures. His words are tested, tried, confirmed, proven, and hallowed. He Himself has testified they will stand forever. Sadly, these people commit the error of putting light for darkness and darkness for light when they claim that "voices" are not their own understanding, yet believing the scriptures somehow is. But, again, we know from holy writ that no scripture is of private interpretation, and the checks and balances established by the inerrancy of Scripture (apart from those who twist His words, but such folly is quickly made manifest) is one such safeguard against self-deception, hence why it is "profitable for correction and reproof". Our own thoughts involve the influences of our own hearts, which we know are desperately wicked above all else.

Good stuff. Reps to you.

 

[BenAdam]

We can also test things against Scripture. If something contradicts Scripture that's usually a pretty good sign we can leave it well alone.

Some people like to test things based on whether they "feel good" or not. That can be a bad thing - we might use a sense of discernment to know that something just "doesn't feel right" but to rely on feelings alone is to invite all sorts of dodgy conclusions.

People who like to tickle ears and tell people what they want to hear will usually create a "feel good factor" in their audience, even if what they are talking is complete bunk.

Yes, scripture is the standard. Anyone who has ever had a gauge or instrument calibrated knows that it is calibrated against a standard, which is based on a more stringent standard. There are ultimate standards for the meter maintained by the BIPM (actually it did, the standard is now the standard wavelength emission of Krypton-86 in a vacuum, but I digress and I didn't mean this to be a primer on international weights and measures).

The weights and measures folks don't maintain something for everything. There is not standard kilometer measurement for instance, that is based on the meter.

My point is scripture may not include everything we ever run across, but everything can find it's base or root in scripture and that is that standard to measure prophesy, revelation, teaching, words of wisdom, visions, ad naseum from.

 

[TillICollapse]

We can also test things against Scripture. If something contradicts Scripture that's usually a pretty good sign we can leave it well alone.

Some people like to test things based on whether they "feel good" or not. That can be a bad thing - we might use a sense of discernment to know that something just "doesn't feel right" but to rely on feelings alone is to invite all sorts of dodgy conclusions.

People who like to tickle ears and tell people what they want to hear will usually create a "feel good factor" in their audience, even if what they are talking is complete bunk.

It took me awhile to sort of realize this, and it may seem obvious to say ... but one of the conclusions I came to about people who confuse feelings, their own thoughts, desires, their ability to reason or not, etc ... with spiritual things ... is that they may not have a point of reference to compare and contrast the two apart from what others tell them, or what others have said on the matter.

Not to sound elementary, but as far as I can tell, God is holy ... He is different from all other influences, entities, etc. The Holy Spirit is not like an animal's spirit, a person's spirit, an "angel", etc. The Holy Spirit is unique. So when we have all these other things we experience in our lives: fear, pain, laughter, joy, other people, other animals, excitement, wonder, awe, depression, things that go bump, whatever ... we are arguably responding to "worldly" influences and spiritual influences that aren't *holy*. When we experience God's holiness, however ... it is radically different from any other experience there is. Our bodies respond to Him different than we would other creatures, other situations, etc. It is that extra color in the rainbow, that extra level of hearing, that extra smell that is found nowhere else, etc.

Unless you have experienced that, your point of reference is to rely on analogies to mentally try and *imagine* it, or to trust the account of other's concerning the matter. Someone can tell you about a color they are seeing until they are blue in the face, but all you know about is the standard colors of the rainbow, and while you can IMAGINE what an extra color could be like, you haven't seen it yet for yourself to have a point of reference. You could stand there and witness a miracle, but unless you are experiencing the holiness, you cannot positively identify whether the event "is of God or not". So you try and use comparison methods to things that you do trust: scriptures, other people you believe to know the difference, so on and so forth. And in doing so, you're trying to rationalize, gauge things using your emotions, feelings, your senses in other words. No two people can agree because they lack a point of reference they can agree upon. However once you have the Holy Spirit, you now have a personal point of reference, and as you grow, you learn to discern the differences between what is holy, and what is "other", imho.

 

[Ajax 777]

Yes, scripture is the standard. Anyone who has ever had a gauge or instrument calibrated knows that it is calibrated against a standard, which is based on a more stringent standard. There are ultimate standards for the meter maintained by the BIPM (actually it did, the standard is now the standard wavelength emission of Krypton-86 in a vacuum, but I digress and I didn't mean this to be a primer on international weights and measures).

The weights and measures folks don't maintain something for everything. There is not standard kilometer measurement for instance, that is based on the meter.

My point is scripture may not include everything we ever run across, but everything can find it's base or root in scripture and that is that standard to measure prophesy, revelation, teaching, words of wisdom, visions, ad naseum from.

Aye aye, Cap'n!

 

[Andrea411]

It took me awhile to sort of realize this, and it may seem obvious to say ... but one of the conclusions I came to about people who confuse feelings, their own thoughts, desires, their ability to reason or not, etc ... with spiritual things ... is that they may not have a point of reference to compare and contrast the two apart from what others tell them, or what others have said on the matter.

Not to sound elementary, but as far as I can tell, God is holy ... He is different from all other influences, entities, etc. The Holy Spirit is not like an animal's spirit, a person's spirit, an "angel", etc. The Holy Spirit is unique. So when we have all these other things we experience in our lives: fear, pain, laughter, joy, other people, other animals, excitement, wonder, awe, depression, things that go bump, whatever ... we are arguably responding to "worldly" influences and spiritual influences that aren't *holy*. When we experience God's holiness, however ... it is radically different from any other experience there is. Our bodies respond to Him different than we would other creatures, other situations, etc. It is that extra color in the rainbow, that extra level of hearing, that extra smell that is found nowhere else, etc.

Unless you have experienced that, your point of reference is to rely on analogies to mentally try and *imagine* it, or to trust the account of other's concerning the matter. Someone can tell you about a color they are seeing until they are blue in the face, but all you know about is the standard colors of the rainbow, and while you can IMAGINE what an extra color could be like, you haven't seen it yet for yourself to have a point of reference. You could stand there and witness a miracle, but unless you are experiencing the holiness, you cannot positively identify whether the event "is of God or not". So you try and use comparison methods to things that you do trust: scriptures, other people you believe to know the difference, so on and so forth. And in doing so, you're trying to rationalize, gauge things using your emotions, feelings, your senses in other words. No two people can agree because they lack a point of reference they can agree upon. However once you have the Holy Spirit, you now have a personal point of reference, and as you grow, you learn to discern the differences between what is holy, and what is "other", imho.

Really touched by the depth of your post. The power that transforms us is not our willpower, its His Holy Power…. as we die to self, there is more room for Christ and less room for our own desires, thats when our desires become more like His. If our desire is to be seen as 'correct' so that our peers revere us then our desire for righteousness is off center and produces self-righteousness. If our desire is to die to ourselves, He will instill in us a desire for His righteousness and with that a level of humility….. and holiness. If we didn't have humility our holiness would be a hindrance. It becomes a something we might be conceited about and that spoils the fruit and our witness to others. It is all so terribly simple…. it should break our hearts.
God bless, andrea

 

[Alive_Again]

We know there are coming (and already are) lying signs and wonders. I think people like Chris Angel are very much of this ilk. He seems to do it more as a "magician" than pointing to a free thinking religion.

We do need to develop skills in exercising spiritual precepts to at least put ourselves in position to hear judgment.

Paul wondered how they got so swept away, by these false bragging apostles, even to another spirit...shows a warning there indeed, don't look at flesh, when so called "anointed ones" come.

"These false bragging apostles" is a direct accusation against some unnamed people. You've thrown around the name of an organization and stamped it unworthy. It's time to back up what you say with some direct facts. Remember, just because we don't agree with doctrine does not relegate someone into the position of a false prophet or apostle. In fact, someone representing themselves as an apostle is not in the least bit wrong (assuming they are!).

To ensure prejudice due to personal authority issues do not assert themselves, it should be necessary to specifically outline offending claims, principles, or doctrines before muddying the name of an organization.

We know that the apostolic anointing is going to receive more persecution than others (scripturally), so any attacks on that office need to have specific quotes (not just links to long videos). Any agreement that someone just chimes in with should be viewed as suspect.

We must treat people as we would be treated. We cannot invalidate entire ministries because they were involved with a revival that came to a halt. Also, the actions of one person (however established) does not and should not reflect on others.

It is possible to partake of the sins of others by no speaking against some things. We don't want to be guilty on either end, but wrongdoing should be firmly established before judgments are made.

 

[TillICollapse]

Really touched by the depth of your post. The power that transforms us is not our willpower, its His Holy Power…. as we die to self, there is more room for Christ and less room for our own desires, thats when our desires become more like His. If our desire is to be seen as 'correct' so that our peers revere us then our desire for righteousness is off center and produces self-righteousness. If our desire is to die to ourselves, He will instill in us a desire for His righteousness and with that a level of humility….. and holiness. If we didn't have humility our holiness would be a hindrance. It becomes a something we might be conceited about and that spoils the fruit and our witness to others. It is all so terribly simple…. it should break our hearts.
God bless, andrea

Thank you for your kind words

 

[contango]

Yes, scripture is the standard. Anyone who has ever had a gauge or instrument calibrated knows that it is calibrated against a standard, which is based on a more stringent standard. There are ultimate standards for the meter maintained by the BIPM (actually it did, the standard is now the standard wavelength emission of Krypton-86 in a vacuum, but I digress and I didn't mean this to be a primer on international weights and measures).

The weights and measures folks don't maintain something for everything. There is not standard kilometer measurement for instance, that is based on the meter.

My point is scripture may not include everything we ever run across, but everything can find it's base or root in scripture and that is that standard to measure prophesy, revelation, teaching, words of wisdom, visions, ad naseum from.

Very true, and if Scripture is technically silent on an issue we can often figure out whether there is a mandate or prohibition using a bit of common sense.

Scripture doesn't explicitly say whether it's acceptable or not to send nude pictures of ourselves using a cellphone. But we don't have to look very far to find instructions not to cause another to stumble, instructions against coveting our neighbour's wife, instructions against lust and so on. So even though if we really wanted to be pedantic we could argue that Scripture is silent, we have to ignore the meaning of Scripture to try and justify it.

 

[Source Scripture]

It is scriptural to hear the Lord. It is also scriptural to have miralces following around believers. Certainly it is also scriptural to have false signs and wonders following non-believers. Yet it is scriptural that nobody says Jesus Christ is Lord expect by the Spirit of God.

If Jesus Christ is a Lord, and a Lord is someone who gives instructions, then Jesus Christ must be giving each of us personally instructions, because it is also scriptural that He will send the Spirit who says what He hears.

The problem I have is when people want to post about the Scriptures but never have anything from Him who is supposed to be with them. That's a problem!! Is He their Lord if they don't hear from Him? And if they do hear from Him, who come they never say what it is? It is also scriptural to shout on the house top what is whispered in your ear.

So frankly, I am not so concerned about those claiming to hear from Jesus Christ, thought perhaps they don't check the spirit they are hearing from, as I am concerned about those never claiming to hear from Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit.

That said: It is appropriate to wonder if what they say is from the Lord. Of course if we who know the Lord wonder about it, we certainly will ask the Lord about it. Then it is back to what we hear Him tell us.

So with all due respect, we need to move from the scriptual into the personal, and not the other way around!!!

The scriptures are suppose to lead us to the way of salvation through Jesus Christ. That is spritual!

2 Tim 3:15 ... you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I'm think that if we all wound up with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ we could all share what He is personally doing for us. Isn't that called fellowship?

Excuse the interuption, however I can't help but to notice a blatant contradiction here. You speak of the need to move away from the scriptural, to the personal, all as you quote a verse, where Paul directs Timothy to the sacred writings, commonly known as the scriptures. Do keep in mind how often Paul referred to the scriptures to support his Gospel, and told Timothy to read the scriptures aloud in public, Thank you. SS.

 

[K2K]

Yes ... shortly after I was filled with the Holy Spirit for the first time, and heard God's voice for the first time, I spent about 2 years speaking with the Lord this way, asking Him about every single thing, etc. I ran everything by the Lord first, and I waited until I got His word and guidance on things, etc. Your posts largely say this over and over ... "Ask God and get your answers directly from God", etc. Like I said, I did this exact thing for about two years. I was shown this exact chapter as well ... I even have it highlighted in my Bible, and I had those verses printed out and placed as an insert in my Bible for the longest time.

Would you like to answer my original question now ?

That's great to hear! That is exactly what I am talking about!

As for your question; I did answer it. You must have missed what I was saying.

Your question was: "what is your concept of "revelation" ? How would you define it ? "

The answer was: "When you read the Scriptures, you should also be seeking to hear what the Lord has to say to you personally. Then you will have a revelation of Jesus Christ!!"

The revelation is a revelation of Jesus Christ!!

You got that revelation when you started walking and talking with Him. Everyone that starts walking and talking with Him has the revelation of Jesus Christ. Yet to those who don't walk and talk with Him, He has not been revealed to them.

You see this in the Revelation. Note: the last book of the bible is not called Revelations, but Revelation. The revelation is a revealing of Jesus Christ, and when He is revealed to us we find that He is always with us. He is the Great I Am. He is the Word of God. He is the King. And He wants talk to us so bad that He is just standing there and knocking with His voice. But to many He has not been revealed.

Is 30:20 He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher and your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

That is what happen when we get our revelation. We start hearing from Him regularly, just like you mentioned was happening with you and just like I told you. That is the revelation!