once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?
BTW Im new here
a7x
BTW Im new here
a7x
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Can I loose my Salvation?
- Thread starter Avenged Sevenfold
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No, you can not be unborn once you are born of God, you can't be unchosen once you are chosen by God.
Nevertheless, although our common destiny is what we see at the end of the Bible, the New Jerusalem, a lot happens between here and there. Christians will be judged at the judgement seat of Christ, and some will be rewarded but some will "suffer loss." The Bible is very clear on this.
Nevertheless, although our common destiny is what we see at the end of the Bible, the New Jerusalem, a lot happens between here and there. Christians will be judged at the judgement seat of Christ, and some will be rewarded but some will "suffer loss." The Bible is very clear on this.
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Lynn73
Jesus' lamb
No, I don't think we can lose our salavation.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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http://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html#salvation-V
Losing Salvation by our Own Choice
Acts 7:51 - you stiff-necked people, you always resist the Holy Spirit. We, by our own freewill, can resist God and His grace.
Rom. 11:20-22 - we can be in the tree of God's grace by faith in the Messiah, then quit believing and persevering and be cut off.
1 Cor. 9:22,27 - even Saint Paul recognized that he could lose his salvation by choosing wrong. Not every runner receives a prize. If Paul thought that he could lose his salvation, why are many churches so presumptuous to think that they cannot lose theirs?
1 Cor. 9:27 - the word "disqualified" that Paul uses comes from the Greek word "adokimos" which literally means cut off from Christ, or reprobate. This proves that Paul believes he can lose his salvation. Those, therefore, who believe in "once saved, always saved" have to argue that "disqualified" cannot refer to being cut off from Christ and salvation. Instead, they argue that "disqualified" only refers to receiving less rewards in heaven. But Scripture disproves their claim:
Rom. 1:28; Titus 1:16; 2 Tim. 3:8; Heb. 6:8; 2 Cor. 13:5-7 - for example, in these verses "adokimos" always refers to those reprobates who are to be condemned by God. It has nothing to do with going to heaven with less rewards.
1 Cor. 4:4 - Paul says he is not aware of anything against himself, but he is still not acquitted. Paul is not presumptuous about his salvation. Only the Lord is our Judge.
1 Cor. 6:9-11 - we can be washed, sanctified, and justified, yet Paul still warns us that we can be deceived and become unrighteous.
1 Cor. 10:12 - anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. You can be standing in God's grace, and then fall away.
1 Cor. 15:1-2 - we can be believers but believe in vain. Scripture refutes the novel theory "once saved, always saved."
2 Cor. 6:1 - we can receive the grace of God in vain. We can choose not to cooperate with His grace.
2 Cor. 11:2-3 - I betrothed you to Christ, but I am afraid that your thoughts will be led astray from a devotion to Christ. Paul thus teaches that we can be in Christ, and still fall away from Christ. Once saved, always saved?
Gal. 5:4 - Paul teaches that we can be in Christ, then be severed from Him and fall away from God's grace.
Phil. 2:12 - we cannot assume salvation. We need to work it out to the end with fear and trembling. If "once saved, always saved" were true, why would the great apostle Paul have to work his salvation out in fear and trembling?
Phil. 3:11-12 - again, Saint Paul acknowledges the need to endure to the end and has no presumption of salvation.
Col. 1:21-23 - we have now been reconciled in His body to be presented holy and blameless, provided we are steadfast.
Col. 2:18-19 - a man puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind has lost the connection with Jesus. He had the connection and lost it.
1 Tim. 1:5-6 - some people have wandered away from a sincere faith, a pure heart and a good conscience. They had a sincere (not a fake) faith, and still fell away.
1 Tim. 1:19-20 - Paul tells Timothy to hold fast to the faith, and not shipwreck it like Alexander and Hymenaeus. They had it, and then they lost it.
1 Tim. 4:1 - the Spirit "expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith." They had the faith, then lost it.
1 Tim. 5:8 - if we do not provide for our relatives, we have disowned the faith (we had the faith, and we lost it).
1 Tim. 6:10 - for the love of riches we may wander from the faith (we had the faith, and we can lose the faith).
2 Tim. 4:8 - it is only at end of Saint Paul's life that he has a moral certitude of salvation. But this is after a lifetime of perseverance. As faithful believers in Christ, we must have a moral certitude of salvation, but this is different from being certain of our salvation. We can choose to fall away.
Heb. 2:1 - we must pay closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. We have it, but we can drift away from it.
Heb. 3:12 - take care, lest there be in any one of you an evil heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. We can be with God, and choose to fall away from Him.
Heb. 4:1 - while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it.
Heb. 4:6 - we can receive the good news (predestined to grace) and then disobey it and fall away.
Heb. 6:4-6 - those who have been enlightened (predestined to grace) can fall away, commit apostasy and crucify the Son of God.
Heb. 10:23-29 - we can sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth (predestined to grace) and then face a fury of fire.
Heb. 10:26 - if we continue to sin after knowing truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin - our salvation is jeopardized.
Heb. 10:35 - we can have confidence in salvation (predestined to grace), and then throw it away. We can have it, and lose it.
James 5:19-20 - we can be in the truth, and then wander from the truth which means death, unless we are brought back.
2 Peter 2:1 - we can be bought by Christ, and then become false teachers of destructive heresies and destroy ourselves.
2 Peter 1:10 - we are all called to God, but we must "work" hard to keep our calling. By grace we participate in our salvation.
2 Peter 2:20-22 - we can escape the defilements of the world through Jesus (predestined to grace) and then become entangled again therein.
2 Peter 3:16-17 - we can be the beloved of God and then lose our stability and carried away with the error of lawless men.
1 John 1:7 - if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us. But we need continual cleansing, and can walk out of the light.
1 John 1:9 - if we confess our sins, Jesus will forgive them and cleanse us. But we need continual cleansing. Growing in holiness is a lifelong process.
1 John 2:19 - "they left, but didn't not belong to us" refers to those who were Christians who did not persevere and were thus not predestined to glory.
1 John 2:28 - we must abide in Him so we have confidence and don't shrink in shame. If we fail to abide, we are lost.
2 John 8 - look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for. You can lose the grace you currently have.
Jude 6 - even some of the angels, who beheld the face of God, fell. How much more could we fall?
Gen. 3:6 - Adam and Eve, who were already living the divine life of supernatural grace, fell away from God. Is falling more possible for us?
Ezek. 3:20; 18:24 - the righteous can turn away from their righteousness, and their prior good deeds will be forgotten.
Losing Salvation by our Own Choice
Acts 7:51 - you stiff-necked people, you always resist the Holy Spirit. We, by our own freewill, can resist God and His grace.
Rom. 11:20-22 - we can be in the tree of God's grace by faith in the Messiah, then quit believing and persevering and be cut off.
1 Cor. 9:22,27 - even Saint Paul recognized that he could lose his salvation by choosing wrong. Not every runner receives a prize. If Paul thought that he could lose his salvation, why are many churches so presumptuous to think that they cannot lose theirs?
1 Cor. 9:27 - the word "disqualified" that Paul uses comes from the Greek word "adokimos" which literally means cut off from Christ, or reprobate. This proves that Paul believes he can lose his salvation. Those, therefore, who believe in "once saved, always saved" have to argue that "disqualified" cannot refer to being cut off from Christ and salvation. Instead, they argue that "disqualified" only refers to receiving less rewards in heaven. But Scripture disproves their claim:
Rom. 1:28; Titus 1:16; 2 Tim. 3:8; Heb. 6:8; 2 Cor. 13:5-7 - for example, in these verses "adokimos" always refers to those reprobates who are to be condemned by God. It has nothing to do with going to heaven with less rewards.
1 Cor. 4:4 - Paul says he is not aware of anything against himself, but he is still not acquitted. Paul is not presumptuous about his salvation. Only the Lord is our Judge.
1 Cor. 6:9-11 - we can be washed, sanctified, and justified, yet Paul still warns us that we can be deceived and become unrighteous.
1 Cor. 10:12 - anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. You can be standing in God's grace, and then fall away.
1 Cor. 15:1-2 - we can be believers but believe in vain. Scripture refutes the novel theory "once saved, always saved."
2 Cor. 6:1 - we can receive the grace of God in vain. We can choose not to cooperate with His grace.
2 Cor. 11:2-3 - I betrothed you to Christ, but I am afraid that your thoughts will be led astray from a devotion to Christ. Paul thus teaches that we can be in Christ, and still fall away from Christ. Once saved, always saved?
Gal. 5:4 - Paul teaches that we can be in Christ, then be severed from Him and fall away from God's grace.
Phil. 2:12 - we cannot assume salvation. We need to work it out to the end with fear and trembling. If "once saved, always saved" were true, why would the great apostle Paul have to work his salvation out in fear and trembling?
Phil. 3:11-12 - again, Saint Paul acknowledges the need to endure to the end and has no presumption of salvation.
Col. 1:21-23 - we have now been reconciled in His body to be presented holy and blameless, provided we are steadfast.
Col. 2:18-19 - a man puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind has lost the connection with Jesus. He had the connection and lost it.
1 Tim. 1:5-6 - some people have wandered away from a sincere faith, a pure heart and a good conscience. They had a sincere (not a fake) faith, and still fell away.
1 Tim. 1:19-20 - Paul tells Timothy to hold fast to the faith, and not shipwreck it like Alexander and Hymenaeus. They had it, and then they lost it.
1 Tim. 4:1 - the Spirit "expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith." They had the faith, then lost it.
1 Tim. 5:8 - if we do not provide for our relatives, we have disowned the faith (we had the faith, and we lost it).
1 Tim. 6:10 - for the love of riches we may wander from the faith (we had the faith, and we can lose the faith).
2 Tim. 4:8 - it is only at end of Saint Paul's life that he has a moral certitude of salvation. But this is after a lifetime of perseverance. As faithful believers in Christ, we must have a moral certitude of salvation, but this is different from being certain of our salvation. We can choose to fall away.
Heb. 2:1 - we must pay closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. We have it, but we can drift away from it.
Heb. 3:12 - take care, lest there be in any one of you an evil heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. We can be with God, and choose to fall away from Him.
Heb. 4:1 - while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it.
Heb. 4:6 - we can receive the good news (predestined to grace) and then disobey it and fall away.
Heb. 6:4-6 - those who have been enlightened (predestined to grace) can fall away, commit apostasy and crucify the Son of God.
Heb. 10:23-29 - we can sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth (predestined to grace) and then face a fury of fire.
Heb. 10:26 - if we continue to sin after knowing truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin - our salvation is jeopardized.
Heb. 10:35 - we can have confidence in salvation (predestined to grace), and then throw it away. We can have it, and lose it.
James 5:19-20 - we can be in the truth, and then wander from the truth which means death, unless we are brought back.
2 Peter 2:1 - we can be bought by Christ, and then become false teachers of destructive heresies and destroy ourselves.
2 Peter 1:10 - we are all called to God, but we must "work" hard to keep our calling. By grace we participate in our salvation.
2 Peter 2:20-22 - we can escape the defilements of the world through Jesus (predestined to grace) and then become entangled again therein.
2 Peter 3:16-17 - we can be the beloved of God and then lose our stability and carried away with the error of lawless men.
1 John 1:7 - if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us. But we need continual cleansing, and can walk out of the light.
1 John 1:9 - if we confess our sins, Jesus will forgive them and cleanse us. But we need continual cleansing. Growing in holiness is a lifelong process.
1 John 2:19 - "they left, but didn't not belong to us" refers to those who were Christians who did not persevere and were thus not predestined to glory.
1 John 2:28 - we must abide in Him so we have confidence and don't shrink in shame. If we fail to abide, we are lost.
2 John 8 - look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for. You can lose the grace you currently have.
Jude 6 - even some of the angels, who beheld the face of God, fell. How much more could we fall?
Gen. 3:6 - Adam and Eve, who were already living the divine life of supernatural grace, fell away from God. Is falling more possible for us?
Ezek. 3:20; 18:24 - the righteous can turn away from their righteousness, and their prior good deeds will be forgotten.
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Hi there!Avenged Sevenfold said:once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?
BTW Im new here
a7x
welcome to the forums...
No... you can't be "unborn"... but the Word of God also says that if you are saved you won't continue in sin...
Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
If you think you are saved and still seeking "sins" intentionally, then I have news for you... you probably only have "fire insurance"... thinking you have salvation just because you said the words (knowledge of the mind) but your hearts stayed with the world.
God makes Christians to be new creatures, not the old creature in the old ways, but a new creature raised in His likeness, and with the power to overcome the world.
~serapha~
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Rafael
Only time enough for love
As others have explained, if you are saved and reborn as a new creature in Christ, you will have new desires too, but this doesn't mean that you will not have to fight the urge of the old creature that still is very much alive in the flesh. Once you are born again there will be a battle between the spirit you have received from God and the old man of the flesh that you were. There will be this fight between the spirit and the flesh until this temporary life ends in either physical death or the Lord's returning. If we yield ourselves to the Spirit of God and deny the members of our flesh and put to death the works of the flesh in our lives, we will be vessels of honor that God can use more and more. So we are encouraged by the scriptures to put the works of the flesh behind us and grow in grace towards the yielding of ourselves more completely to the Lord's Holy Spirit.
Because we stumble and fail sometimes in the battle with satan and the flesh, it does not mean that we have lost the war - because we already know that we win with God in the end. You cannot lose your salvation if you fight the good fight, but God is not mocked or fooled either by hypocrisy and we should not fool ourselves by claiming to be Christian while practising lives of sin.
2 Timothy 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the masters use, and prepared unto every good work.
Romans 12:1 And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice--the kind he will accept. When you think of what he has done for you, is this too much to ask? 2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is.
Galatians 5:17 (LIV) For we naturally love to do evil things that the Holy Spirit tells us not to do; and the good things we want to do when the Holy Spirit has His way with us are just the opposite of our natural desires. These two forces within us are constantly fighting each other to win control over us, and our wishes are never free from their pressures.
Ephesians 4:22 (LIV) throw off your old evil nature and your former way of life, which is rotten through and through, full of lust and deception. 23 Instead, there must be a spiritual renewal of your thoughts and attitudes. 24 You must display a new nature because you are a new person, created in God's likeness- righteous, holy, and true.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
****
Paul sheds more light on this dichotomy of nature in Romans 7 and laments the body of death that his new spirit dwells in, and says that it is not the real self of the spirit that sins, but sin that dwells in the flesh.
Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
John speaks of the spirit inside us with this verse, referring to the born of God part of us:
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Because we stumble and fail sometimes in the battle with satan and the flesh, it does not mean that we have lost the war - because we already know that we win with God in the end. You cannot lose your salvation if you fight the good fight, but God is not mocked or fooled either by hypocrisy and we should not fool ourselves by claiming to be Christian while practising lives of sin.
2 Timothy 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the masters use, and prepared unto every good work.
Romans 12:1 And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice--the kind he will accept. When you think of what he has done for you, is this too much to ask? 2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is.
Galatians 5:17 (LIV) For we naturally love to do evil things that the Holy Spirit tells us not to do; and the good things we want to do when the Holy Spirit has His way with us are just the opposite of our natural desires. These two forces within us are constantly fighting each other to win control over us, and our wishes are never free from their pressures.
Ephesians 4:22 (LIV) throw off your old evil nature and your former way of life, which is rotten through and through, full of lust and deception. 23 Instead, there must be a spiritual renewal of your thoughts and attitudes. 24 You must display a new nature because you are a new person, created in God's likeness- righteous, holy, and true.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
****
Paul sheds more light on this dichotomy of nature in Romans 7 and laments the body of death that his new spirit dwells in, and says that it is not the real self of the spirit that sins, but sin that dwells in the flesh.
Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
John speaks of the spirit inside us with this verse, referring to the born of God part of us:
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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Good stuff. Just to summarize: You can lose salvation if you choose to, and if you dont repent. If you are really trying to do what is right however, even with many bumps in your life, you will still be saved. The loss of salvation wasn't meant for those who were good but for those who were pretending to be good (or fell from the faith).
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ax7, nice name btw, I love the band, even though they're a secular band(or am I wrong? i'd love to be wrong right now )
First off, ask a baptist if you can lose salvation, he will deny its possibility. Ask a Calvinist, same reply. Ask a lutheran, catholic, and you can lose your salvation.
Do your own research, see what you conclude by interpretation of the bible, continue to ask other's opinions, and base off of that. You're doing the right thing by questioning, questioning, questioning. Something I don't feel enough Christians do, which can only strengthen their faith in my opinion.
But one thing all Christians can/will agree on, whether or not its possible to lose it, if you turn to Jesus, repent your sins it doesn't matter if you lost it or not in the past, the now is what matters in the Father's eyes.
For the record(incase youre tallying, lol): I believe you can lose your salvation. Because it has happened to me, and I felt it deep in my heart, but once I looked towards Jesus again, the light that fulfilled my life was assurance that something that I had once abandoned before was stronger than ever. There is one particular verse in the bible that is sticking in my mind but I can't remember the book, chapter or exact verse :/ it goes something along the lines of "those who turn away from God....ever come back...their hearts will be hardened"...(sorry)
Nate
)First off, ask a baptist if you can lose salvation, he will deny its possibility. Ask a Calvinist, same reply. Ask a lutheran, catholic, and you can lose your salvation.
Do your own research, see what you conclude by interpretation of the bible, continue to ask other's opinions, and base off of that. You're doing the right thing by questioning, questioning, questioning. Something I don't feel enough Christians do, which can only strengthen their faith in my opinion.
But one thing all Christians can/will agree on, whether or not its possible to lose it, if you turn to Jesus, repent your sins it doesn't matter if you lost it or not in the past, the now is what matters in the Father's eyes.
For the record(incase youre tallying, lol): I believe you can lose your salvation. Because it has happened to me, and I felt it deep in my heart, but once I looked towards Jesus again, the light that fulfilled my life was assurance that something that I had once abandoned before was stronger than ever. There is one particular verse in the bible that is sticking in my mind but I can't remember the book, chapter or exact verse :/ it goes something along the lines of "those who turn away from God....ever come back...their hearts will be hardened"...(sorry)
Nate
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Caelum vbmenu_register("postmenu_7926127", true);
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ax7, nice name btw, I love the band, even though they're a secular band(or am I wrong? i'd love to be wrong right now)
The lyrics are Christian right? no bad words and there Bible based. check out Sounding the Seventh Trumpet.
Killswitch Engage is another group wich aint Christian but the lyrics are Christian Lyrics.......maybe I am wrong?
a7x
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ax7, nice name btw, I love the band, even though they're a secular band(or am I wrong? i'd love to be wrong right now
)The lyrics are Christian right? no bad words and there Bible based. check out Sounding the Seventh Trumpet.
Killswitch Engage is another group wich aint Christian but the lyrics are Christian Lyrics.......maybe I am wrong?
a7x
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Avenged Sevenfold said:
Well, I looked into it a bit, according to some of their interviews they state "we are not a religious band"...but their name is in Biblical reference to the story of Cain and Abel...regardless, good music
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Where did you get this idea that onced you are saved that is it? There is nothing like that in the Bible. The only time you can be sure you are saved is on your deathbed and your conscience is at peace with God. Then you can utter Paul's words"I have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..... etc" Until then alluta continua as we have a fight against invisible powers in heavenly places and on earth which prompted Christ to teach us to pray "Deliver me from temptation and from evil"Avenged Sevenfold said:once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?
BTW Im new here
a7x
Trust me you can love salvation just as soon you get it. If you doubt this give the Apostle Judas Ischariot a call, he would tell you all about it.
BTW we all go to hell as it is the common grave. The Bible makes it clear Jesus was also in hell.
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Lynn73
Jesus' lamb
I agree with them that Paul wasn't concerned about losing salvation, but losing rewards he may have earned. Look at this scripture carefully:debiwebi said:
[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica][/font]1 Corinthians 5:1-6 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you (believers/Christians), and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Now, you tell me please if salvation can be lost, why wasn't this man who fornicated with his father's wife sent to hell? (NO, I'm not advocating license to sin: see how God deals with him) It clearly says that this person will be delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (physical death) so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This man remained saved but God took him home so he couldn't remain in his sin. Sin has consequences for both the unsaved and the saved. God will discipline in some way and if the person continues to ignore Him, He'll even go to the point of taking a saved person on home but the verse clearly shows that the man was still saved.
In my humble opinion, the verses that make it seem one can lose their salvation are being misunderstood or misinterpreted. There are too many Scriptures that, to me, indicated that no one can snatch us from the Father's hand once we belong to Him. Salvation is a free gift, it isn't earned. It seems rather pointless to take back a gift that wasn't earned in the first place because of failures by the recipient. Do you take gifts back from people? And, how can eternal life be eternal if it can be lost? Does God save us, yet it's up to us to keep ourselves saved? Not logical. If we can't save ourselves in the first place, what makes us think we can keep ourselves? Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly show we are saved by grace, not of works lest any man should boast.
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/once_saved.htm
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- Dec 2, 2003
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And should I then find the verses in Revelations where it says that all those that are in hell and hades will be brought to the Lord to be judged and to answer to Him .....Or did you forget about that scripture....So if he went to hell then He will be sent before the Lord yes on Judgement DayLynn73 said:
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html
Now how about reading all of the other scriptures I didn't cite from this page and then put them into correlation with each other.....and in proper context as well.
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Yes, but let me break this down even more for you....due to the fact that we all have Free Will it is entirely possible to at one time have believed and then to reject that belief knowing full well that we are doing so...This does not mean that at one time we did not have a willingness and open heart what it means is that after that for whatever reason we decided to reject it due to our own Free Will and therefore hardened our hearts to it...Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
This is the only way you can undo your own Salvation...thus Faith and Works do work hand in hand liek two sides of the same coin, if you sliced that coin in half then you would only have half of the coin and it would be worthless so in order for it to have worth you need both sides, you cannot have one without the other....
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DevoutHeiress
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Avenged Sevenfold said:once your saved can you get un-saved? and once your saved will drinking and looking at things your not saposed to send you to hell after your saved?
BTW Im new here
a7x
No,once you are born again,He is there to live in your heart forever,that's why He says that He will never forsake you. Once you are saved,you are of God's family,you will live with Him in Heaven. It doesn't matter if you drink,smoke,etc. You will be with Him one day. But you have to live according to His example that He set for us while He was on Earth. You can't just "get by" knowing that no matter what sins you commit you will go to Heaven,you are going to have to give an account before the Lord one day,now do you want it to be a account that you and Jesus will be proud of or a account that Jesus will be ashamed of? It's your choice.
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Lynn73 said:
Try this one . This time all the discussion is directly from the Bible, there is no inperpretation in sight. God does not need to resort to torture to get his way
http://www.christianforums.com/t673437&page=1
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- Mar 5, 2003
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Reject God, reject Christ and you will lose your salvation. Salvation is something we must work at. Or as Saint Paul says:
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. So you too should be glad and rejoice with me." - Philippians 2:12-18
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. So you too should be glad and rejoice with me." - Philippians 2:12-18
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Rafael
Only time enough for love
The unrighteous may wait in sheol for the great white throne judgment, but those that belong to the Lord will be present with the Lord as soon as they are absent from the body. When we see Him we will be like Him. Eternity is not fashioned after linear time. To step into eternity is to step into the now - the present. This is what is meant by the verse in John 5:25, "the time is is coming - and NOW is", showing the step from time to eternity. God always exists in the present, ie - Exodus 3:13,14, "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
Don't mistake the unrighteous that tarry for judgment with those in Christ even now at the right hand of God - NOT in sheol:
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
John 5:25 Truly, truly, I say to you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
When we step into eternity, time will end and we will be there having the same experience of death as David, Isaiah, John, Paul, you or I. As they experience death, those belonging to the Lord will return with the Lord as Enoch saw, "the Lord coming with ten thousands of His saints" (Jude 14).
God is not hindered by time as men, and much of doctrinal mistake about death comes because man cannot break from the linear thinking that is nature to time and death. Someday we will know as we are known, but for now we see through a glass darkly because our experience is ignorant of eternity while we abide in this flesh.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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