Can God Change

[com7fy8]

Jesus is 100% human and 100% God He has a divine nature and a human nature. Yes God (the Word in this case) was spirit and then He became incarnate, that is a change from being spirit only.

If Jesus could not sin, then Jesus was not fully like human sinners > James 1:13. So, no He did not change in His spiritual nature.

If you put water into a plastic bottle, the water does not change to be fully water and fully plastic! Like this, when Jesus became present in a physical body, He did not change to being fully spiritual and fully physical while in His human body.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Jesus could not sin, then Jesus was not fully like human sinners > James 1:13. So, no He did not change in His spiritual nature.

Jesus was fully human. His human nature was not distorted by sin and death.
Our bodies die now so our flesh obeys the law that comes with death. Just as the bodies of other animals that die do.
If we were good we wouldn't do this or that because it's good. This or that would be good because we did it.
If someone always chose good how can one tell if that person is good themselves or always choosing it?

Jesus didn't want to drink the cup He was given but chose it in obedience to His Father.

 

[disciple Clint]

If Jesus could not sin, then Jesus was not fully like human sinners > James 1:13. So, no He did not change in His spiritual nature.

If you put water into a plastic bottle, the water does not change to be fully water and fully plastic! Like this, when Jesus became present in a physical body, He did not change to being fully spiritual and fully physical while in His human body.

I do no know about water in a bottle, I do know about Jesus and what the bible has to say about Him, He is just as I said he is 100% human and 100% God. Now on the question of why Jesus did not sin, obviously God does not sin but His human nature in theory could have sinned which is why He as tempted by the devil. He would not sin however because His human nature was perfect and therefore was so filled with the Holy Spirit that He had no desire to sin. You can see His human nature struggle in the garden where He asks the Father to remove the cup.

 

[com7fy8]

@Eloy Craft

@disciple Clint

I offer that I understand your explanations. And you do not agree with mine.

In any case, James 1:13 says,

"God cannot be tempted with evil".

This is because His character can not change.

And, if God made man in His image, I guess this can mean God is somehow human if man is human and made in His image.

But man can be tempted with evil.

 

[Jamdoc]

Can God Change

I have another one of those theological dilemmas for which I cannot seem to find a solution within my mental faculties to discern in a way that I find acceptable.

The Word is God and became 100% man while remaining 100% God in His incarnation. He will remain fully God and full man for eternity. He did not simply take on a human body, He became human in all respects.

This is very important because it was absolutely necessary for Jesus to be both man and God in order to achieve the reconciliation and redemption of mankind.

One of the cardinal attributes of God is that He is perfect and therefore He does not change in any way, He is immutable.

Now here is my dilemma. God cannot change, however God became forever incarnate, that is a substantial change, how do I wrap my mind around this let alone explain it to someone?

It is a difficult thing to wrap your head around, it is kind of distressing, but the bible has it

Genesis 6

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

repenting in this case is changing your mind.. so God here changed his mind about making humans, like they were a mistake, He regretted it.
But He knew this would happen already.

Furthermore the redemptive plan is to restore all the things that were lost to remake creation.....
but apparently God changes His mind about oceans, having day and night, and for men and women getting married. I sometimes wonder.. did God regret creating women and marriage? Because He's revoking it in the "restoration" of all things.

It's hard to be 100% on faith if God can change His mind.
The idea that God could possibly just change His mind on a plan, when it involves a promise.. terrifying
Think Darth Vader.. "I am altering the deal, pray I do not alter it further"

so yeah, it's a real faith issue to wrestle with.. our "rock" our "high tower" changing when it's the one thing we don't want to change.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Well, before we assume the incarnation is a change, let us not forget the eternity of God. God exists outside time; indeed He created time.

However, communicatio idiomatum suggests it might indeed be a change as @ewq1938 suggests, except paradoxically, it cannot be a change to either His humanity or His divinity according to Ephesian and Chalcedonian Christology.

I'm in the midst of reading Peter Lombard's Sentences Book Three on the Incarnation; if one is serious interested in the incarnation, there are few works that would even come close to this.
The Sentences – Book 3: On the Incarnation of the Word – Pontifical Institute of Mediaeval Studies

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Can God Change

I have another one of those theological dilemmas for which I cannot seem to find a solution within my mental faculties to discern in a way that I find acceptable.

The Word is God and became 100% man while remaining 100% God in His incarnation. He will remain fully God and full man for eternity. He did not simply take on a human body, He became human in all respects.

This is very important because it was absolutely necessary for Jesus to be both man and God in order to achieve the reconciliation and redemption of mankind.

One of the cardinal attributes of God is that He is perfect and therefore He does not change in any way, He is immutable.

Now here is my dilemma. God cannot change, however God became forever incarnate, that is a substantial change, how do I wrap my mind around this let alone explain it to someone?

I'm not sure why there is a hard and fast rule that The Father does not change His mind. There are many occurrences where He changed His mind in the Old Testament. He seems to be deemed imperfect if He decides to change His mind. I believe this is in error. It is His "character" that never changes and He is always driven by LOVE. If He decides , which He did several times, not to follow through with a calamity He does so out of Love.
We can carry this through into the incarnation of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God in the flesh. Living among His people and suffering for them , is the most Loving act of all and with the final release of His Holy Spirit , there is no question His perfect Love for us never changes.
Blessings

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Any change to perfection would result in something less than perfection so God does not change.

Not necessarily. Why would one need to think that? In fact, something perfect would be capable of perfect change, dynamic perfection. that corresponds more readily with the revelation we see in nature.

 

[TedT]

Can God Change

ImCo,
Changing does not refer to His becoming human in the least. It refers to HIS keeping HIS election promise to save HIS elect no matter what sin they sinned as expressed in the verse, HIS mercy endureth forever.
It also refers to HIS eternal hatred for evil and HIS total commitment to the judgement of the reprobate who sinned the unforgivable sin.

 

[friend of]

Well not exactly solved because Jesus is still 100% God and God does not change.

The problem as I see it is, if Jesus was not always human, then He at one point became human which indicates a "change"

How would you resolve this issue?

 

[disciple Clint]

@Eloy Craft

@disciple Clint

I offer that I understand your explanations. And you do not agree with mine.

In any case, James 1:13 says,

"God cannot be tempted with evil".

This is because His character can not change.

And, if God made man in His image, I guess this can mean God is somehow human if man is human and made in His image.

But man can be tempted with evil.

Your post leaves me unclear as to if you understand that Jesus is 100% Human as well as 100% God, He has two natures, if you doubt that please read John.

 

[disciple Clint]

It is a difficult thing to wrap your head around, it is kind of distressing, but the bible has it

Genesis 6


repenting in this case is changing your mind.. so God here changed his mind about making humans, like they were a mistake, He regretted it.
But He knew this would happen already.

Furthermore the redemptive plan is to restore all the things that were lost to remake creation.....
but apparently God changes His mind about oceans, having day and night, and for men and women getting married. I sometimes wonder.. did God regret creating women and marriage? Because He's revoking it in the "restoration" of all things.

It's hard to be 100% on faith if God can change His mind.
The idea that God could possibly just change His mind on a plan, when it involves a promise.. terrifying
Think Darth Vader.. "I am altering the deal, pray I do not alter it further"

so yeah, it's a real faith issue to wrestle with.. our "rock" our "high tower" changing when it's the one thing we don't want to change.

God does NOT change His mind. Please read the following.
Does God change His mind? | GotQuestions.org

 

[disciple Clint]

I'm not sure why there is a hard and fast rule that The Father does not change His mind. There are many occurrences where He changed His mind in the Old Testament. He seems to be deemed imperfect if He decides to change His mind. I believe this is in error. It is His "character" that never changes and He is always driven by LOVE. If He decides , which He did several times, not to follow through with a calamity He does so out of Love.
We can carry this through into the incarnation of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God in the flesh. Living among His people and suffering for them , is the most Loving act of all and with the final release of His Holy Spirit , there is no question His perfect Love for us never changes.
Blessings

God clearly tells us in scripture that He does not change His mind.
Does God change His mind? | GotQuestions.org

 

[disciple Clint]

Not necessarily. Why would one need to think that? In fact, something perfect would be capable of perfect change, dynamic perfection. that corresponds more readily with the revelation we see in nature.

It is not possible to make something that is perfect even more perfect and since God is perfect no change is possible.

 

[disciple Clint]

ImCo,
Changing does not refer to His becoming human in the least. It refers to HIS keeping HIS election promise to save HIS elect no matter what sin they sinned as expressed in the verse, HIS mercy endureth forever.
It also refers to HIS eternal hatred for evil and HIS total commitment to the judgement of the reprobate who sinned the unforgivable sin.

No it refers to God being perfect in all ways.

 

[disciple Clint]

The problem as I see it is, if Jesus was not always human, then He at one point became human which indicates a "change"

How would you resolve this issue?

THAT is the sixty four thousand dollar question and it is also what this thread is all about.

 

[disciple Clint]

Thanks to everyone who has posted in answer to my dilemma. I was not trying to be critical with any of the answers beyond raising those questions that I expected that I would get if I used the proposed solution you provided. Thanks again and blessings to all.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It is not possible to make something that is perfect even more perfect and since God is perfect no change is possible.

Not "more" perfect but AS perfect. Why must God be stagnant?

 

[com7fy8]

Your post leaves me unclear as to if you understand that Jesus is 100% Human as well as 100% God, He has two natures, if you doubt that please read John.

Well, Jesus is not on the earth now.

John is talking about Jesus on this earth, mainly.

And it depends on what you mean by 100% human.

As I have offered, Jesus is and was not able to sin . . . now or while in the flesh. So, Jesus is not 100% how human sinners are, in any case, and never was.

And Jesus is God's own Son, not what is true of humans.

To me, being human means being a creature, and not our Creator. And ones understand that Jesus is our Creator. So, I am not saying that Jesus is both. I believe Jesus is our Creator.

 

[disciple Clint]

Not "more" perfect but AS perfect. Why must God be stagnant?

If something is perfect it can not be improved, Right? So that would mean that any change would result in something less than perfect, Right? God is not something less than perfect, Right? So God can not change, Right? OK