Can dividing the Body of Christ on prejudicial grounds and taking the Lord's Supper, result in serious sickness - even death... ???

[concretecamper]

I was at a Catholic funeral and the Priest said only those who are practicing Catholics can take part in communion. Communion is not what it used to be. Blessings.

It has always been, and will always be that the Eucharist is reserved for those who belong to His Church and profess the One Holy Catholic Apostolic faith.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Here is one of the most serious warnings in the New Testament.

1 Cor 11
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

What exactly was He meaning ?

Do folks suffer under this warning today?

What does the original Greek reveal about discerning the Body - is this a reference to the Body of Christ the Church ?

Comment greatly appreciated.

My reading of those passages is that should you take the Lord's Supper or communion in vain and in a detrimental way (i.e. if it is not preceded with reflection of oneself for needs of repentance and prayer and then to take Communion without acknowledgment of the presence of the Body of Christ) you are subject to falling under God's judgement. God judged His early Church for doing so with sickness, weakness and even death. It is my opinion that these afflictions were a sign to the leaders to seek God in this matter and the Lord gave those leaders this answer. We see here that Paul, as an apostle of God, sent out this warning.
Church members sometimes even today wrongly commune out of ignorance and the Lord will judge each according to His perfect judgement and will. Perhaps these afflictions may still be visited upon some members.
This is not unlike the sin of lying to the Holy Spirit with the example of Ananias and Sapphira...they were judged and all the church going forward. with them. The message that we are lying to the Holy Spirit when lying to God's representatives in church matters. Again, this is only my understanding.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Here is one of the most serious warnings in the New Testament.

1 Cor 11
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

What exactly was He meaning ?

Do folks suffer under this warning today?

What does the original Greek reveal about discerning the Body - is this a reference to the Body of Christ the Church ?

Comment greatly appreciated.

I've read several opinions in answer to your OP question. I'll add one more.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: [ A-2,Verb,G1252, diakrino ] - Discern, Discerner, Discernment
In 1 Corinthians 11:29, with reference to partaking of the bread and the cup of the Lord's Supper unworthily, by not "discerning" or discriminating what they represent;
Source link: Discern, Discerner, Discernment - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
(MY NOTE: By NOT "discerning" or discriminating/understanding, what Christ's body & blood represent)

Ex 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
(MY NOTE: "Passover day" shall be MEMORIAL = A REMEMBRANCE/reminder, record or chronicle of deliverance/redemption. Jesus is the NT/Body of Christ Passover Lamb (1 Cor 5:7).

1 Cor 11:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me
(MY NOTE: Do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me & My > Finished sin redemptive work)

Ex 12:43-48. No foreigners, servants, sojourners or strangers could partake in the in the Passover meal unless they were circumcised. (Also see Gen 17:7-14)
(MY NOTE: Only people under the covenant of circumcision were allowed to eat the Passover meal)

1 Cor 11:27 Who ever eats this bread, & drinks this cup of the Lord, unworthily, will be guilty of the body & blood of the Lord
(MY NOTE: Jesus who gave this ordinance, PAID, for ALL the believers sins. I believe this verse is: Warning NON-believers/anyone (every Church has them) that hasn't been sealed with Christ New covenant salvation sealing, Forever indwelling (Jn 14:16) Holy Spirit. Uncircumcised were forbidden to partake in the OT & NON-believers are NOT to partake in this NT God given ordinance)

Matt 8:17 accentuates why His Body was Broken

Matt 8:17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: “He took up our infirmities ""& bore our diseases""
(MY NOTE: Isa 53 4-6, 1 Pet 2:24, Matt 6:49-59, 8:17) All proclaim Christs Body was Broken for the believers spiritual & physical health. Amen

 

[The Liturgist]

Such a warning may also apply to ones attitude to the Body of Christ otherwise the warning to find peace with your brother before partaking would not have been made.

Actually this is the issue that was fundamental to the disagreement between Paul and Peter. Peter was wrongly discerning the Body of Christ.

So I am more inclined to see different levels of truth are associated with this warning. Interesting that such a serious warning is not higher in the consciousness of modern day believers.

That’s largely the result of theological liberals deleting 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 from the Novus Ordo three year lectionary and the related Revised Common Lectionary on Maundy Thursday, and also decreased attendance at Maundy Thursday in general, as well as removing language that one will find in older editions of, for example, the Book of Common Prayer, that encourage self-examination (and also the prayers advising the congregation that the priest intended to celebrate the Eucharist; to my knowledge nothing prevents these from being used even when the Eucharist is served every Sunday, vs. limiting their usage to ante-communion. Likewise, the Eucharistic theology of the Novus Ordo Missae lacks the penitential character of the Tridentine Mass, Dominican Mass and other traditional forms of the Roman Rite liturgy.

The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches however have maintained the traditional Eucharistic piety. For example, there are some Slavonic and near-Slavonic speaking churches such as the OCA, the Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Belarussian, Moldovan, Bulgarian and Romanian Orthodox, and I think also the Polish Orthodox, that generally want parishioners to confess at least once a month, and ideally before every liturgy. This I think is extremely healthy, but even the congregational confession in the older BCP, and the Prayer for Humble Access, are good, and Anglicanism and Lutheranism also traditionally offer auricular confession for those who feel the need, the Anglican saying being “Some should, all may, none must.”

I suppose the Russian and Ukrainian view, imported into America by the OCA and ROCOR and more recently the UOCNA, is “All must, some really seriously must, none should not.” But I will say confessing that frequently can be beneficial, and effective at relieving distress, fear and bereavement. For example, a Serbian-American bishop in ROCOR relieved me of a lifelong fear of hearses, and a Russian priest in ROCOR relieved me of an extreme feeling of bereavement over the death of my father. I also had a very good confession with a Romanian hieromonk (monastic priest) and a Slavic-American priest at an OCA parish. And I have never been penanced by an Orthodox priest.

 

[anetazo]

Because the apostates broke away from the foundation of christ and formed denominations. Proverbs chapter 5 document the word Zur and stranger. They don't keep the the Passover. They teach tradition of men and false doctrine. Do we see the parameters here??. You can't mix heathen traditions with true worship of God. In Corinthians, apostle Paul talks about leaven bread and unleavened bread. The yeast is of leaven bread, its false religion. Like Esster or rapture theory. Get the picture. In psalm, unless God builds the city, men do it in Vanity. The Zur, apostates,are leading people astray. I documented this.

 

[tonychanyt]

How can anyone eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner?

1 Corinthians 11:

17 in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

Paul complained about the lack of unity. Then he gave an example:

20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk.

lack of unity, divisions

22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

That's wrong. Paul then reminded the Corinthians what Jesus said:

23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body

the body of Christ, the Church as a spiritual reality in oneness and unity

eats and drinks judgment on himself.

That's what happened to Judas Iscariot.

30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves truly,

Ask ourselves: Do I belong to the Body of Christ? Am I at peace in the oneness of the Body of Christ?

we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

33 So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34a if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

Pointing back to the beginning of this passage, Paul stressed the importance of unity in doing things in unison even when partaking during the Lord's Supper. We are to love one another in the Body of Christ.

Jesus affirmed this oneness in Christ in John 6:

54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

The Latin root of communion is communionem, meaning "fellowship, mutual participation, or sharing." 1 Corinthians 10:

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

It connotes oneness in the Body of Christ.

 

[Michie]

To receive communion unworthily is a form of sacrilege. It would be committing another grievous sin in addition to the mortal sin.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.” Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of reconciliation before coming to Communion (1385).

 

[Carl Emerson]

By the way - He took the cup after eating...

It seems the first communion was taken in the context of a common meal.

Sad that this is no longer the case.

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way - He took the cup after eating...

It seems the first communion was taken in the context of a common meal.

Sad that this is no longer the case.

Actually in most Orthodox churches a common meal follows the celebration of the Eucharist at the Divine Liturgy. I would agree with you that it is unfortunate that most other churches limit themselves to coffee and biscuits.

Interestingly, in the case of the Syriac and Coptic Orthodox, no grace is said before the post-Eucharistic meals, which in the Coptic church are called Agapes, and which in the Syriac Orthodox Church are customarily donated by the families of reposed church members who have been commemorated in the Divine Liturgy with a memorial service (these memorial services, held on the anniversary of the death of a loved one, are directly integrated into the main Sunday liturgy, and usually feature a photograph of the reposed church member displayed on a special stand with a candle on either side) Sometimes a memorial known as a pannikhida will be included with Eastern Orthodox divine liturgy, in which case similiar traditions are followed, and I believe this is particularly the case on Soul Saturdays. When this is done, the agape meal will feature Kolivas, which is a delicious sweet pudding made of boiled wheat berries. The Eastern Orthodox have a special prayer of grace that is said for food served in the church hall or trapeza, regardless of whether or not a Eucharist preceded it, whereas as far as I can tell, the Copts and Syriacs regard the Divine Liturgy itself as constituting grace said for the post-Eucharistic meal.

Oh also, regarding another conversation we recently had, I did come across an Orthodox Church recently which had testimonials either before or after a midweek service, I think it was an Akathist or a Moleben or Paraklesis (the latter are services are supplication, whereas the former is a long Kontakion, an early Orthodox hymn from which the Canon was derived, which is dedicated to our Lord or a particular saint, usually the Blessed Virgin Mary, or in some cases to the Holy Cross). Akathists and molebens commonly happen midweek or on Saturday before Vespers.

 

[The Liturgist]

How can anyone eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner?

According to St. Paul, by not discerning the Body and Blood of our Lord, the real presence of which in the Eucharist is affirmed by John ch. 6, which has the effect of excluding Zwinglian and Memorialist interpretations of the Eucharist (at a minimum, our Lord is really spiritually present in the Eucharist, but the simplest reading of the text affirms a physical presence as is believed, with some variations, by the Lutherans, the high church Anglicans, the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, the Assyrians, some Methodists, the Old Catholics, the Roman Catholics, and if I recall correctly the Moravians).

 

[The Liturgist]

It has always been, and will always be that the Eucharist is reserved for those who belong to His Church and profess the One Holy Catholic Apostolic faith.

Indeed. To partake of the Eucharist in a Roman Catholic church one must either be a Roman Catholic, or a member of one of those churches the RCC regards as “Separated Brethren” who happen to be away from their parish, under the Code of Canon Law of the Eastern Catholic Churches, namely, the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, or Assyrian churches, and also if memory serves the Polish National Catholic Church, but not the more liberal Old Catholic churches in the Union of Utrecht, from which the PNCC was expelled, or else be extremely ill, in which case dispensation can be granted to receive the sacraments from a Catholic priest.

Likewise Roman Catholics who cannot reach a Catholic parish are in theory allowed to receive communion in Orthodox and Assyrian churches, but to my knowledge, at present only the Assyrian Church of the East, the Ancient Church of the East (which is an Old Calendarist group which separated from the ACOTE in the 1960s after some bishops realized the hereditary patriarchate the church had at the time was in violation of its own canon law, but which is now in the process of negotiating a reunification), and some Syriac Orthodox parishes, specifically, I have heard reliable reports that the Syriac Orthodox church in Istanbul will give communion to Catholics.

 

[Bobber]

Here is one of the most serious warnings in the New Testament.

1 Cor 11
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

What exactly was He meaning ?

Do folks suffer under this warning today?

What does the original Greek reveal about discerning the Body - is this a reference to the Body of Christ the Church ?

Comment greatly appreciated.

This is a verse you're not allowed to talk about today. Of course you should really but what I mean is it seems if one ever even talks about a topic why people may not be healed it's like all you hear is nobody knows these things and it's just a mystery why one might not be healed but we all should just leave it with God. I agree with one thing nobody should take a truth and say specifically to a person you didn't get healed for this reason BUT God has given us a check list of things that all themselves need to consider and ask questions of themselves.

This verse didn't say ALL are not healed and some have died for the reason in the verse....but MANY. Even by saying MANY though that quite signicfant, Other reasons many may not be too is not asking in faith, nothing wavering. First reaction people have when that is brought up is disdain from people for they think no one should ask people to consider that maybe they didn't apply their faith correctly. It was however Jm 1: 7 which stated let a person not think they'll receive anything from the Lord. Again no we don't approach a person as in individual and tell them this is the reason for you but we should be giving them a possible checklist of things to consider for themselves. Again people don't want to hear these things today.

 

[Bobber]

Indeed. To partake of the Eucharist in a Roman Catholic church one must either be a Roman Catholic, or a member of one of those churches the RCC regards as “Separated Brethren” who happen to be away from their parish, under the Code of Canon Law of the Eastern Catholic Churches, ......

I don't see ANY church leader has a right to tell someone they can't take communion. The Bible says the following, in 1 Cor 11: 31 that we are to judge ourselves if we're worthy of taking communion not someone else.

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't see ANY church leader has a right to tell someone they can't take communion. The Bible says the following, in 1 Cor 11: 31 that we are to judge ourselves if we're worthy of taking communion not someone else.

If I agreed with your argument entirely (and I don’t, because your premise is wrong), it would still be factual to point out that the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, et cetera are not telling people they can’t take communion. Rather they are simply outlining what they believe are needed steps to ensure the beneficial reception of the Eucharist. Thus if you want to receive communion in one of those churches, you simply have to go through the process of catechesis and be received, usually through Chrismation. I was actually initially received into Orthodoxy by profession of faith but realized that a miscommunication had occurred between myself and the priest and so I decided to get chrismated.

That being said, as I stated previously, the premise of your post is in error. The Gospels, the Pastoral Epistles of St. Paul, and Acts make it clear that bishops and priests are accountable to God for how they administer the sacraments, so if a minister administers the Eucharist in a manner that harms someone, when they could have intervened to prevent that, that is something they will have to answer for at the day of judgement.

It is for this reason the LCMS, the Orthodox, and the Catholics have the restrictions they have, while other churches like the Assyrians limit the reception of communion to those who believe in the Real Presence.

 

[Valletta]

I don't see ANY church leader has a right to tell someone they can't take communion. The Bible says the following, in 1 Cor 11: 31 that we are to judge ourselves if we're worthy of taking communion not someone else.

It is their church, they purchase the bread to be consecrated and pay the upkeep bills for the Church. And religions have restrictions within, for example, fasting is required for Catholics, the majority of those identified as Catholics are not at this moment eligible to take Communion. I would not go into an Eastern Orthodox Church to receive Jesus in the Holy Eucharist because I know they have their own rules which I would not think of violating out of respect.

 

[The Liturgist]

It is their church, they purchase the bread to be consecrated and pay the upkeep bills for the Church. And religions have restrictions within, for example, fasting is required for Catholics, the majority of those identified as Catholics are not at this moment eligible to take Communion. I would not go into an Eastern Orthodox Church to receive Jesus in the Holy Eucharist because I know they have their own rules which I would not think of violating out of respect.

Ultimately when it comes to the Orthodox, you should ask the priest, because some jurisdictions, such as the Syriac Orthodox, are reported to be willing to give communion to Catholics at some of their parishes. And the Assyrian Church of the East will always communicate you, and the Catholics will always communicate them; it is the only case where the desire of the Eastern Catholic Churches for limited intercommunion was fully reciprocated, in fact, the Assyrians will communicate anyone who professes a belief in the Nicene Creed and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and probably a few other things related to piety, but the main thing for them is belief in the real presence, and not being a heretic.