can demons move objects

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So you opine. You have no scripture to support your statement. At least my opinion is devoid of obviously non-scriptural statements.

It is interesting that Jesus did a lot of new things that were not actually written in the Jewish Scriptures. Go through the Gospels. Jesus turning water into wine is not supported, feeding the five thousand is not supported, healing a blind man by spitting on dirt and putting it in his eyes, dying on the cross, being raised from the dead, and a lot of His teaching, including replacement of the Law with loving God and one's neighbour - you can't find actual OT Scriptures to support these things, so, by your own standards, Jesus was a fake - Or was He?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

dying on the cross, being raised from the dead, and a lot of His teaching, including replacement of the Law with loving God and one's neighbour - you can't find actual OT Scriptures to support these things, so, by your own standards, Jesus was a fake - Or was He?

Maybe you can't, but I could. Now I can understand your "quoting" of scripture. Maybe when you start doing miracles like Jesus did, you can definitively say my assumption from scripture is wrong and you and gustavchristianartist are right.

Let me be clear. I am not saying that I am unquestionably right, just that I believe a certain position based on certain scriptures. You however say you are right with incorrect comments of scripture.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Maybe you can't, but I could. Now I can understand your "quoting" of scripture. Maybe when you start doing miracles like Jesus did, you can definitively say my assumption from scripture is wrong and you and gustavchristianartist are right.

Let me be clear. I am not saying that I am unquestionably right, just that I believe a certain position based on certain scriptures. You however say you are right with incorrect comments of scripture.

You missed my point. I am not saying anything about you. What I am questioning is the demand from some to quote a definite Scripture in support of a manifestation or a comment. I am saying that many things have taken place which are totally consistent with the nature and character of God and the way He generally does things, even though there is no actual quote that a person can find to support it. Therefore some will say the manifestation or comment is not true because a definite quote cannot be found from Scripture.

For example, there is no actual OT quote that says that there will be a day in which the Holy Spirit will fall on a group of people, a sound of a rushing wind, things like fire on their heads, and speaking in tongues that are understood by a large crowd outside the room. So those who demand a specific quote to support it, will not find one, so they might say that what happened to the 120 in the upper room was not a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did many things that were unprecedented in OT Scripture, yet we know He is the Son of God and always did the Father's will.

So, demanding a specific quote from Scripture to support a manifestation of the Spirit or a particular doctrinal teaching or Church practice, may not be practical to determine whether those things are true or false.

Maybe the test should be whether the practice is in general keeping with God's character, nature and the ways He has worked with people in the past, rather than trying to find a non-existent quote from Scripture.

 

[Francis Drake]

Il tell you where I’m getting it from,
I have seen demons, evil spirits etc on numerous occasions but not one of them have ever thrown objects.
Maybe God does allow such interactions in Canada, America, and them parts of the world, but He doesn’t allow it in Ireland. The first time we heard of poltergeist activity was in a film.

Read your Bible man, plenty of evidence that God restricts, controls, allows demons in what they can and cannot do.
What you won’t find in the Bible is any demon throwing stuff around.

If demons can't move physical things, how do you suppose Pharaoh's magicians did their miracles?

Exodus7v10So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake. 11Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. 13Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.

However you interpret the details of the above, the magician's work was definitely in the physical realm and it had to be done with the aid of demons.
These demonised magicians also turned water into blood, and caused frogs to come up out of the rivers.

 

[Jipsah]

according to the scriptures they can guess and give extraordinary strength but no move objects

am i wrong

Scripture is silent on the matter. I suspect that demons can move stuff, so can a chicken. But it probably wasn't a demon who hid my keys, I just forgot where I left them.

 

[Jipsah]

If demons can't move physical things, how do you suppose Pharaoh's magicians did their miracles?

The same way magicians have always performed their wonders - by trickery, misdirection, and showmanship. That's what magicians do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Scripture is silent on the matter. I suspect that demons can move stuff, so can a chicken. But it probably wasn't a demon who hid my keys, I just forgot where I left them.

I reckon the Holy Spirit got my cat to hook out my house and car keys from under my upright freezer when they fell down underneath and I couldn't find them for three days, and then I found them right in the centre of my laundry floor, beside the freezer. I know this, because I asked the Lord to help me find them. I would never have found them if it wasn't for that cat.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

If demons can't move physical things, how do you suppose Pharaoh's magicians did their miracles?

Exodus7v10So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake. 11Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. 13Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.

However you interpret the details of the above, the magician's work was definitely in the physical realm and it had to be done with the aid of demons.
These demonised magicians also turned water into blood, and caused frogs to come up out of the rivers.

How about this one. If God's children have guardian angles that can at times defy physics and rescue them, may be the same for Satan's children. I am thinking specifically of Hitler, who had numerous attempts on his life, but he survived. There are stories he and other Nazis were involved in the occult.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

How about this one. If God's children have guardian angles that can at times defy physics and rescue them, may be the same for Satan's children. I am thinking specifically of Hitler, who had numerous attempts on his life, but he survived. There are stories he and other Nazis were involved in the occult.

I've heard of right angles, and angle grinders, but not guardian angles! . I think you might mean "angels". Just shows how transposing two letters in a word totally changes its meaning.

But seriously, I do get your point and concur with it.

 

[Francis Drake]

The same way magicians have always performed their wonders - by trickery, misdirection, and showmanship. That's what magicians do.

So when Moses described what the magicians did, he was being fooled, being plain dishonest, or maybe just issuing the earliest edition of........... FAKE NEWS.

But given that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,..." (2Tim3v16), it must be God who got fooled not Moses.

 

[Francis Drake]

I've heard of right angles, and angle grinders, but not guardian angles! . I think you might mean "angels". Just shows how transposing two letters in a word totally changes its meaning.

But seriously, I do get your point and concur with it.

Come on Oscarr, he was just looking at things from a different angle.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So when Moses described what the magicians did, he was being fooled, being plain dishonest, or maybe just issuing the earliest edition of........... FAKE NEWS.

But given that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,..." (2Tim3v16), it must be God who got fooled not Moses.

I fully believe that those magicians did demonic miracles. Isn't in the New Testament that false prophets will appear in the last days promoting lawlessness and convincing people by demonic signs and wonders. These will be real signs and wonders that will amaze the people, and people will give credence to these false prophets because of the signs and wonders. Jesus described those people when He said about the ones who will come to Him saying Lord, Lord, haven't we done great things in your Name? These are not true born again believers. They are savage wolves in sheep's clothing. Their mission is to turn people away from the Lordship of Christ, holy living, true repentance, and genuine dependence on Christ. Their signs and wonders will be for that purpose.

This is the difference between those signs and wonders, and Charismatic signs and wonders. The former is to turn people away from Christ, the latter comes along with the preaching of repentance, dependence on the risen Christ, and holy living, to point to and lead people to a stronger faith in and closer relationship with Christ.

But that is a little off topic, but I couldn't help saying it. That's my angle!

 

[Jipsah]

it must be God who got fooled not Moses.

Maybe it was just you, eager to believe in the Power of Satan.

 

[Francis Drake]

Maybe it was just you, eager to believe in the Power of Satan.

I think you owe us an explanation Jipsah, as scripture states very clearly that these magicians replicated certain miracles that Moses did, obviously by demonic power.
I believe the scriptures, therefore I believe these magicians did what scripture says they did. Therefore I also believe Satan has such power. (See post No132 above this by @Oscarr to learn a little more of that miracle working power of Satan.)
Mock and insult all you like, but please explain why you reject what scripture says.

 

[Jipsah]

So when Moses described what the magicians did, he was being fooled, being plain dishonest, or maybe just issuing the earliest edition of........... FAKE NEWS.

Or none the above. I saw a magic show last year where one of the acts made a full size helicopter "appear" on the stage. Brilliant trick. And when I told friends about it, I told them he made a helo appear. I didn't feel the need to explain to them that he probably didn't do it By The Power of Satan or because he actually had magical powers. Same if he'd sawed a woman in half, I'd say "dude sawed a woman in half, amazing!" Plain reporting. The Bible doesn't say that the Egyptian conjurers invoked any demonic power to turn water into blood, it says they used their "secret arts", which I take to be the same "secret arts" that magicians have always used, trickery, misdirection, showmanship.

it must be God who got fooled not Moses.

I don't happen to think that anyone was fooled, except perhaps you being fooled into accepting a magician's tricks as being genuine.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Or none the above. I saw a magic show last year where one of the acts made a full size helicopter "appear" on the stage. Brilliant trick. And when I told friends about it, I told them he made a helo appear. I didn't feel the need to explain to them that he probably didn't do it By The Power of Satan or because he actually had magical powers. Same if he'd sawed a woman in half, I'd say "dude sawed a woman in half, amazing!" Plain reporting. The Bible doesn't say that the Egyptian conjurers invoked any demonic power to turn water into blood, it says they used their "secret arts", which I take to be the same "secret arts" that magicians have always used, trickery, misdirection, showmanship.

I don't happen to think that anyone was fooled, except perhaps you being fooled into accepting a magician's tricks as being genuine.

Out of curiosity, how would you explain all the floating, dead carcasses of pigs in the Sea of Galilee?

 

[Jipsah]

I think you owe us an explanation Jipsah, as scripture states very clearly that these magicians replicated certain miracles that Moses did, obviously by demonic power.

Obviously to you, but since the Scripture doesn't say that, then that's simply your take, which I reject as silly.

Mock and insult all you like, but please explain why you reject what scripture says.

The Scripture DID NOT say anything about demonic power, you ran that in your own self. Your notions, however much you like them, are not the equivalent of Holy Writ.

 

[Jipsah]

Out of curiosity, how would you explain all the floating, dead carcasses of pigs in the Sea of Galilee?

Have we transported the Sea of Galilee to Egypt now? And back in time to Moses's day? I think you've mixed up both the geography and the history here. <Laugh>

 

[bbbbbbb]

Have we transported the Sea of Galilee to Egypt now? Was that done by demonic power or just a map reading mishap?

Just as a matter of information, I have not been a part of your Egyptian discussion, nor do I have a particular interest in it. I merely asked a polite question as there is a wide variety of views concerning the drowning of the swine in the Sea of Galilee. If you are not comfortable sharing your personal view, then please politely tell me.

 

[Jipsah]

Just as a matter of information, I have not been a part of your Egyptian discussion, nor do I have a particular interest in it. I merely asked a polite question as there is a wide variety of views concerning the drowning of the swine in the Sea of Galilee. If you are not comfortable sharing your personal view, then please politely tell me.

Quick snynopsis: Our Lord cast demons out of a poor tormented victim, and chucked then into a herd of hogs, which then stampeded into the lake and drowned.

And that shows Demonic Power, think ye? Not very impressive, IMO. What happened to their magic powers?