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Can Creationists justify not being Flat Earthers?

SkyWriting

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I'm talking about what the bible says, not what actually happens.

And you say the sun rises and the sun sets. The moon rises and the moon sets.
Yet you claim to be wiser than what you say.
So tell me what time the sun rises, in more accurate terms.
Please account for your elevation and local topography.
Remember that time at seal level is different than time at an elevation
due to changes in speed and gravitation.
 
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Papias

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And you say the sun rises and the sun sets. The moon rises and the moon sets.
....

Irrelevant. If you read my post, you can see that there are dozens of verses that aren't just common terms like "sun setting".

Here's 75 from a literalist Christian:


In Christ - Papias
 
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Xalith

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Don't you think they know this already?

According to earlier posts in this thread, the Evolutionists attacking Creationists are going "How can you say Creationism without Flat Earth when the Bible says the "Ends of the World", because they seem to think "Ends of the World" MUST be referring to a Flat Earth.
 
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juvenissun

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Yes there is. I quoted some. You are changing the meaning, and that's my point. Why do creationists take creation supporting verses literally, but flat earth supporting verses aren't taken literally.

I interpret the verses literally. My interpretations are included the possible meanings.
You may say that you only see one of the meaning. There are others, like mine.
 
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juvenissun

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No, now you are changing the meaning of the verses. Why do creationists take creation supporting verses literally, but wont take flat earth supporting verses literally.

I take everyone literally. Where was I not literal?
 
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Papias

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According to earlier posts in this thread, the Evolutionists attacking Creationists are going "How can you say Creationism without Flat Earth when the Bible says the "Ends of the World", because they seem to think "Ends of the World" MUST be referring to a Flat Earth.

Did you read the dozens of verses I gave that show a flat earth, and watch the video I posted of a Christian describing the 75 verses that prove a flat earth? Did you read my post that Christian biblical scholars agree that the Bibles show a flat earth?

Blessings-

Papias
 
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dysert

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Did you read the dozens of verses I gave that show a flat earth, and watch the video I posted of a Christian describing the 75 verses that prove a flat earth? Did you read my post that Christian biblical scholars agree that the Bibles show a flat earth?

Blessings-

Papias
I did watch some of the "75" video, but not all of it. The earth isn't flat. So anyone misinterpreting the Bible to prove it is flat is obviously not interpreting the 75 verses correctly.
 
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AV1611VET

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According to earlier posts in this thread, the Evolutionists attacking Creationists are going "How can you say Creationism without Flat Earth when the Bible says the "Ends of the World", because they seem to think "Ends of the World" MUST be referring to a Flat Earth.
They're probably just pulling our chains.

When they appeal to figures of speech as literal, we've won the conversation before it ever gets started.
 
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dysert

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How do you know the earth isn't flat?
One of many reasons is the same old deduction that Columbus made when he saw a ship emerge from the horizon. (There are many other reasons, too, e.g., the fact that we have things in geocentric orbit, the fact that no one has ever fallen off the edge, the pictures from outer space, airplane rides, etc.)
 
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Xalith

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How do you know the earth isn't flat?

Go to any thread started by... oh, what's his name? I forget his name. The one guy who started like 2-3 Flat Earth threads.

We piled on and piled on and piled on the evidence as to why the Earth is a spheroid. Everything from trigonometry experiments, to observable phenomena, to pictures/video taken from low orbit by people attaching cameras to balloons, to pictures taken by various space agencies (not just NASA, I mean, people from Russia, etc), to maps and measurements that just won't and can't support any known model of Flat Earth.

Compasses don't support it, maps don't support it, trans-continental plane flights don't support it, etc.

So yes, those "75 Verses" are being misconstrued. God's Word is always truth, however, we in our flawed minds can easily misinterpret what He really meant and/or things get lost in translation, and/or He used terms that readers of the time would understand, and/or people wrote what they saw in visions (Isaiah, IIRC, said that he saw a "Circle".... look up in the sky... doesn't the moon look like a circle? But yet we know it's round).

And besides, look at every other object in space, and you'll notice something.... they are ALL round (with the exception of smaller asteroids, and even they have a general round/egg/etc shape). Why? Because a flat object would crush under its own gravity. Gravity pulls everything towards the center of an object and over time, anything with a lot of gravity and size would eventually mold into a spheroid shape, because that's the only shape infinitely maintainable under those conditions.
 
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dysert

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So yes, those "75 Verses" are being misconstrued. God's Word is always truth, however, we in our flawed minds can easily misinterpret what He really meant and/or things get lost in translation, and/or He used terms that readers of the time would understand, and/or people wrote what they saw in visions (Isaiah, IIRC, said that he saw a "Circle".... look up in the sky... doesn't the moon look like a circle? But yet we know it's round).
Very well put. The Bible won't contradict facts, so if there seems to be a contradiction it's our understanding that is flawed.
 
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Papias

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One of many reasons is the same old deduction that Columbus made when he saw a ship emerge from the horizon. (There are many other reasons, too, e.g., the fact that we have things in geocentric orbit, the fact that no one has ever fallen off the edge, the pictures from outer space, airplane rides, etc.)

and:

We piled on and piled on and piled on the evidence as to why the Earth is a spheroid. Everything from trigonometry experiments, to observable phenomena, to pictures/video taken from low orbit by people attaching cameras to balloons, to pictures taken by various space agencies (not just NASA, I mean, people from Russia, etc), to maps and measurements that just won't and can't support any known model of Flat Earth.

Compasses don't support it, maps don't support it, trans-continental plane flights don't support it, etc.

And besides, look at every other object in space, and you'll notice something.... they are ALL round (with the exception of smaller asteroids, and even they have a general round/egg/etc shape). Why? Because a flat object would crush under its own gravity. Gravity pulls everything towards the center of an object and over time, anything with a lot of gravity and size would eventually mold into a spheroid shape, because that's the only shape infinitely maintainable under those conditions.

Yes, those are all good evidence, including the math and extrapolation that any large object would be pulled into a sphere. I fully agree with you that this shows that the earth, beyond a reasonable doubt, is a spheroid, based on evidence obtained mostly from others, such as experts in their fields.

So yes, those "75 Verses" are being misconstrued. God's Word is always truth, however, we in our flawed minds can easily misinterpret what He really meant and/or things get lost in translation, and/or He used terms that readers of the time would understand, and/or people wrote what they saw in visions (Isaiah, IIRC, said that he saw a "Circle".... look up in the sky... doesn't the moon look like a circle? But yet we know it's round).

I fully agree here as well. Our flawed minds can easily misinterpret what He really meant/translation/ He spoke in ways that the readers at the time would understand.

So it's clear that we agree that using evidence and expertise from outside one's Bible to help guide interpretation is a good method, since all truth is God's truth, including the truth revealed through God's creation.

Which is exactly the reason that hundreds of millions of Christians accept the reality of evolution just as they accept the reality of a spheroid earth - knowing better than requiring only a strictly literal interpretation of their Bible - which would lead to the denial of both a round earth and evolution.

In Christ-

Papias
 
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Xalith

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Very well put. The Bible won't contradict facts, so if there seems to be a contradiction it's our understanding that is flawed.

To this day, we are still discovering new things hidden in the Bible, like the example I posted above, where Ezekiel is apparently talking about nuclear fallout. Obviously, before 1940, nobody understood what Ezekiel could possibly have been talking about.

What about Zechariah 14:12?

And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

That sounds like the effects of a neutron bomb to me. But anybody living 1940 and prior would have no idea what sort of "plague" would do this. But now, in 2015.... we know exactly what would cause this kind of damage.
 
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Xalith

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Which is exactly the reason that hundreds of millions of Christians accept the reality of evolution just as they accept the reality of a spheroid earth - knowing better than requiring only a strictly literal interpretation of their Bible - which would lead to the denial of both a round earth and evolution.

I don't accept evolution, because God Himself said that He did it in 6 days, and rested on the 7th in Exodus 20:10-12. When God writes something in stone with His own 'finger', you might want to think twice about taking what was said allegorically.
 
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JackRT

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How do you know the earth isn't flat?

"The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church." — Ferdinand Magellan (first person to circumnavigate the globe)

Circumnavigate. Interesting word.
 
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Loudmouth

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I don't accept evolution, because God Himself said that He did it in 6 days, and rested on the 7th in Exodus 20:10-12. When God writes something in stone with His own 'finger', you might want to think twice about taking what was said allegorically.

Such an argument is a perfect way to disprove the existence of God. If the evidence doesn't match up to the claim, it is the claim that is false, not the evidence. Humans writing a literal account on the behalf of a non-existent deity would write accounts that don't match up to the facts.

I can't think of a better way to disprove the existence of God than creationism. Your choice.
 
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SkyWriting

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Irrelevant. If you read my post, you can see that there are dozens of verses that aren't just common terms like "sun setting".
Here's 75 from a literalist Christian:
In Christ - Papias

From our global brainwashing, "Four corners" sounds odd, but there are 4 directions
and "Four Corners" was the common phrase of the time. And you've not even come up with a better phrase anyway.

First four scrapped.


Next group. Erosion and earthquakes.
"Earth not moving" evidently has nothing to do with actual dirt.
1 Chronicles 16:
30 Tremble before him, all the earth!
The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

How is this "proof" of an earth that does not move?
26 Bible verses about Earthquakes?

"Pillars" are just a word for a permanent thing. Or else believers become rocks.
“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.“ (Revelation 3:12).

I would agree that the scriptures say the sun rises and sets. But so does NASA so who are we to listen to what wise people say?
You would think that astronauts would attempt to keep up the globe shaped earth illusion.
I guess this proves they are flat earthers too.
https://www.nasa.gov/content/sunrise-from-the-international-space-station


That's enough. Video is so hard to critique. Said "proofs" all fail.
The "literalist" doesn't allow for earthquakes but thinks
this proves a flat earth.
30 "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."
This guy is not a literalist. He is an agendist.


 
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SkyWriting

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Did you read the dozens of verses I gave that show a flat earth, and watch the video I posted of a Christian describing the 75 verses that prove a flat earth?

But not one of them does. A flat earth is just a convention, like sun rise and sun set.
Use of the convention does not prove NASA supports a flat earth.
Sunrise Over the South Pacific Ocean | NASA
 
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Xalith

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Such an argument is a perfect way to disprove the existence of God. If the evidence doesn't match up to the claim, it is the claim that is false, not the evidence. Humans writing a literal account on the behalf of a non-existent deity would write accounts that don't match up to the facts.

I've not seen Creationism thoroughly disproven, though. It's been tried, but no such disproving has ever been done.

I can't think of a better way to disprove the existence of God than creationism. Your choice.

And I can't think of a more silly notion than a complex organism featuring thousands of working parts, when viewed under a microscope resemble human machines being formed out of lifeless goop over millions of years.

Nor can evolution explain the "everybody can be everything" paradox:

Step 1): Get 100 people who can play every instrument in an orchestra.
Step 2): Have 100 of every instrument on the premises.
Step 3): Have 100 of every musical notation of the music on the premises.
Step 4): Do not bring a conductor in.

The paradox: Do you have a symphony?

No, you don't. Because there's nobody there to direct who does what.

That's how DNA and birth works, though. You take a sperm cell, and an egg cell, they come together and produce the DNA library of an organism and become a single cell.

From that 1 cell, they start to multiply and divide, however, some cells become this, some cells become that. But yet, that first cell, or the "master cell" if you will... had the instructions, the blueprints for every kind and type of cell that would eventually make up the organism.

How did each cell know what to become? Every cell was capable of becoming anything, but yet the entire organism somehow "knew" to grow all the things it would need -- muscle, bone, organs, blood cells, antibodies, hair, etc.

Unless, of course, there were a conductor....
 
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