All three facets of "OSAS" share the belief that "If they aren't saved NOW, then they were never REALLY-TRULY saved in the FIRST place."In your view are they still Christians, or were they never Christians, in spite of all the years they DID follow Christ? Just curious...
This is true. WELL, the part about "before salvation" is true; after salvation, we are the righteousness of God (2Cor5:21); righteousness comes by faith in Christ to ALL WHO BELIEVE (Rm3:22)...Man's righteousness is as filthy rags before and after salvation. Man can't do anything to earn salvation...
(1Jn3 says that children of God are known by their righteousness, children of the devil are known by their unrighteousness; if righteousness is not part of salvation, then what is salvation???)
Are you sure of that??? What do you make of these verses:and (man) can't do anything to maintain salvation...
"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ." Col2:8
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things; for as you do this you will save yourself and those who hear you. 1Tim4:16
"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2Peter3:17-18
"Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another, while it is still called "today", lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end."
"Watch yourselves that you not lose what you have accomplished, but that you may receive full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teachings of Christ HAS NOT GOD." 2Jn1:8-9 (See 1Jn5:12-13)
"KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ TO ETERNAL LIFE". Jude21
"For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what things have been heard (faith comes from hearing), lest we drift away from it. ...how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?" Heb2:1-3
"But I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." 1Corinthians 9:27
"Although you were formerly alienated and hostile, doing evil deeds, yet now He has reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you holy and blameless and beyond reproach---if indeed you continue firmly established and steadfast and not moved away from the hope of the Gospel " Col1:22-23
(The HOPE of the Gospel, is JESUS---1Tim1:1---"be not moved away from JESUS!")
Which of these verses harmonizes with the idea that "we do NOT have a part in mainaining our salvation"? Which one?
Your statement is true; God is eternally faithful, will never forsake us, will never revoke our salvation.God is pure and never lies. God does not promise, give, and take away. Assurance in the heart of a growing Christian is a joy in absolute knowledge of salvation. Any doubt would not be on the part of God. Good works and love of God grow from the grateful heart of a believer. The Christian grows with strength and assurance with the study of God's Holy Word.
...and yet, the key in your statement, is "BELIEVER"; if salvation is by belief, if belief comes from one's own heart (Rm10:10,17), if it is BELIEF that RECEIVES Christ (jn1:12), then what if belief ends? What if we are taken captive again by worldly things and disbelieve (see 2Pet2:20-22)?
It is indeed not a process; "He who HAS the Son, HAS THE LIFE; I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may KNOW you have eternal life!"Salvation is not a process...
It may not "depend on the man who runs or wills but on God who has mercy" (Rm9:16), it may be "not born of blood nor of the flesh nor of the will of men but of God" (Jn1:13), but do you really say "it's not about ME"? Did I not choose to RECEIVE Him (Jn1:12, 10:9)? Do I not choose to abide (remain) in Him? Jn15:4,6,7.it's not about you...
Place a post on this message board, outside of the CO forums --- asking to hear from those who WERE saved, but are no longer; you will receive several replies...;I'd wish they stop building doctrines on hypothetical examples of people that don't exist or whom they don't know all about (ie do you know the person's heart and what he believes till the time he breathes his last breath?).
But we can't do that. I post verse after verse after verse and they are just ignored. Page back and review my posts. Or comment on some verses in THIS post (the blue ones for instance)...Let's stick to clear-cut easy to entreat scriptures.
I don't think anyone really believes it's ACTIONS; we all believe it's HEART. If the heart disbelieves and grieves the Holy Spirit, then an unbelieving heart is not saved. As it says in James 5:19-20. Do you really think James wasn't speaking to TRUE BElIEVERS? Or will you say that "THANATOS" doesn't mean death-&-Hell? What about Pet2:20-22? There are THREE GROUPS in 2Pet2 --- false prophets, false teachers, and ONTOS-APOPHEUGO-TRULY-SAVED. The truly saved are described word-for-word as those "of the same faith as Peter" in 2Pet1:1-4. There is no way to deny they WERE REALLY SAVED, and there is no way to deny "they were again entangled in the defilements of the world and overcome; their second state is worse than their first; far better to have never KNOWN-epinginosko the way of righteousness, than after KNOWING it, to have EPISTREPHO-EK-TURNED-AWAY from the holy commandment." I don't see any way to deny these believers fell-from-salvation...God paid such a high price -- His own Son -- for our salvation, and He made it so simple for us to be saved -- just believe! and receive! -- only to have us turn the greatest miracle of God into something so flimsy and shaky -- something that it the end, can be lost just by what we do or dont do. Whoa! For all that 'trouble' God forgot that it cld all be lost just by man's actions?
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