Can Christians lose there salvation?

[jayebrownlee]

I have had this discussion with a few people but to be honest I am still confused.

Can a Christian lose there salvation? For instance, say someone is a Christian for 20 years but then loses that love and belief in Jesus, would they still be saved? I think no, but what do you think?

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

[Knight]

I would say that they were never saved in the first place.

You've chosen a hot topic Jaye.

Let the games begin.......

 

[jayebrownlee]

why werne't they saved? Sorry I don't mean to be difficult but I don't understand.

Jay

 

[Knight]

I would say that they weren't saved because they eventually turned their backs on Christ. Or, as you say, lost faith. Jesus teaches us that no one can snatch His children from His hand. That's found in John 10.

John 10: 27-30
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 "I and the Father are one."

Would you know this before they left the faith? Maybe, maybe not. I cannot say.

The OSAS theology has not been popular on the forums of late. Personally, I think it would be terrible to believe that I could do something to loose God's grace. Particulary given that I did nothing to deserve it in the first place.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by jayemcintyre
I have had this discussion with a few people but to be honest I am still confused.

Can a Christian lose there salvation? For instance, say someone is a Christian for 20 years but then loses that love and belief in Jesus, would they still be saved? I think no, but what do you think?

Your sister in Christ

Jay

Well, from a reformed perspective, we believe that we do nothing to warrant God's saving grace to begin with, so, doing something to "lose" it is not a possibility.  Every single Christian I've ever met who has been saved longer than say, oh 5 minutes, doubts certain things.  If we do not prepare ourselves by reading God's Word we can easily be led astray.  However, it is by God's sovereign grace that we were born again and believed in the first place.  I would never question someone's salvation.  I would say that the person needs to "go back to their first love" and meditate on what Christ has done for them.  I know that when I am feeling a bit removed from God's grace the thing that always helps me is to delve into His Word and remind me of what I already know, which is that God saved me when I was yet His enemy.  I have never been, nor felt like, I was His enemy since then so regardless of how I may be centering my focus on my "feelings" the Truth always sets me free.

God bless

 

[jayebrownlee]

I am not trrying to question anyone's salvation, I only thought it would be interesting to find out what people think. To be honest I know what I believe and I relaly think that is unlikely that that belief will change. This was purely to find out what other people think.

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by jayemcintyre
I am not trrying to question anyone's salvation, I only thought it would be interesting to find out what people think. To be honest I know what I believe and I relaly think that is unlikely that that belief will change. This was purely to find out what other people think.

Your sister in Christ

Jay

Hey Jay!  I wasn't trying to be harsh.  I was just saying that if I knew someone who fit the criteria you mentioned I would just believe they were a Christian that needed to be encouraged.  I wasn't trying to imply you were questioning their salvation.

God bless

 

[jayebrownlee]

okay, sorry, I misunderstood, please accept my apology

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

[Knight]

Originally posted by jayemcintyre
I am not trrying to question anyone's salvation, I only thought it would be interesting to find out what people think. To be honest I know what I believe and I relaly think that is unlikely that that belief will change. This was purely to find out what other people think.

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

Never said that you were. It's just that there have been a blizzard of threads on this subject in the past couple of months. As I'm sure Reformationist will attest. The OSAS theology does not appear to be very popular. However, as Ref said, this is what the Reformed theology teaches. I've studied this myself and I'm convinced that this is the truth.

Does this mean I don't think you're saved if you disagree? Absolutely not. That is not my place to judge.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by jayemcintyre
okay, sorry, I misunderstood, please accept my apology

Your sister in Christ

Jay

But of course m'dear.

God bless,

Don

 

[ZiSunka]

Matthew 13:3-8
Jesus said, "Listen! A farmer went to plant seed. Some seeds were planted along the road, and birds came and devoured them. Other seeds were planted on rocky ground, where there was little soil. The plants sprouted quickly because the soil wasn't deep. But when the sun came up, they were scorched. They withered because their roots weren't deep enough. Other seeds were planted among thornbushes, and the thornbushes grew up and choked them. But other seeds were planted on good ground and produced grain. They produced one hundred, sixty, or thirty times as much as was planted.

Matthew 13:18-23
"Listen to what the story about the farmer means. Someone hears the word about the kingdom but doesn't understand it. The evil one comes at once and snatches away what was planted in him. This is what the seed planted along the road illustrates. The seed planted on rocky ground [is the person who] hears the word and accepts it at once with joy. Since he doesn't have any root, he lasts only a little while. When suffering or persecution comes along because of the word, he immediately falls [from faith]. The seed planted among thornbushes [is another person who] hears the word. But the worries of life and the deceitful pleasures of riches choke the word so that it can't produce anything. But the seed planted on good ground [is the person who] hears and understands the word. This type produces crops. They produce one hundred, sixty, or thirty times as much as was planted."

According to Jesus, there are people who start out in faith, but fall away for various reasons.

 

[jayebrownlee]

Originally posted by Knight
 

Never said that you were. It's just that there have been a blizzard of threads on this subject in the past couple of months. As I'm sure Reformationist will attest. The OSAS theology does not appear to be very popular. However, as Ref said, this is what the Reformed theology teaches. I've studied this myself and I'm convinced that this is the truth.

Does this mean I don't think you're saved if you disagree? Absolutely not. That is not my place to judge.

I think I have already explained that I misunderstood.

And thank you lambslove for those passages, I think that they are moest appropriate and help explain how I feel.

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

[Knight]

You did but Ref and I were posting our responses at the same time and, apparently, he's the faster typist.

 

[jayebrownlee]

okay, I apologise, didn't realise

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

[Evee]

 Sometimes I feel so far from God that I doubt my salvation.

 I have to pick myself up and quit feeling sorry for myself, and continue.

 I do not believe once saved always saved.

 It is a gift but we do have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 Faith without works is dead so we do have to work at it daily.

 I believe it is a work in progress.

 Just my humble oppinion. 

 

[ZiSunka]

It's normal to doubt your salvation sometimes. You feel distant from God, you wonder if he is listening you and really working in your life. You wonder what the meaning of it all is. You wonder if God even really exists, sometimes, maybe.

But as you get older in the faith and have more experiences with Him, it gets harder to disbelieve and doubt. You see him so much, experience his interaction in your life so often, that you could no more doubt Him than you could doubt the existence of the moon.

Be patient with yourself and remember that faith is a growing thing, that tomorrow your faith will be larger than it is today.

 

[jayebrownlee]

Originally posted by Evee
 Sometimes I feel so far from God that I doubt my salvation.

 I have to pick myself up and quit feeling sorry for myself, and continue.

 I do not believe once saved always saved.

 It is a gift but we do have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 Faith without works is dead so we do have to work at it daily.

 I believe it is a work in progress.

 Just my humble oppinion. 

I, like lambslove, think that it is normal to doubt your salvation, it is an amazing gift and it is quite understandable tog as you believe God sent His son and that He died for your sins then you wonder why we are given it, but please just have confidence that as you are saved.

As for the rest of your message, Amen sister (I hope you are a woman, if not, then pease accept my apologies)

Your sister in Christ

Jay

 

[Job_38]

John 10: 27-30
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 "I and the Father are one."

This part of scripture makes it solid that we cannot lost our salvation. What a wonderful thing.


". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

God cannot lose us. If we believe we can be separated, this means that we go to God and not God calling us and bringin us into His loving arms. Which is going against His lovely Word.

In Christ.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Job_38
John 10: 27-30
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 "I and the Father are one."

This part of scripture makes it solid that we cannot lost our salvation. What a wonderful thing.


". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

God cannot lose us. If we believe we can be separated, this means that we go to God and not God calling us and bringin us into His loving arms. Which is going against His lovely Word.

In Christ.

Very nice bro.

God bless

 

[cougan]

Originally posted by Job_38
John 10: 27-30
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 "I and the Father are one."

This part of scripture makes it solid that we cannot lost our salvation. What a wonderful thing.

 The influence of Calvin's theology can be observed in virtually all mainline Protestant denominations with their continued belief in eternal security for the Christian and insistence that John 10:27-29 supports such a doctrine.

    A closer examination of the text reveals no such thought in Jesus' words.  Notice the relationship expressed in John 10:27: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."  There is a mutual recognition between shepherd and sheep.  Moreover, the sheep follow the shepherd, indicating activity on the part of the sheep, which, translated to the relationship between Jesus and His followers, reveals that those of whom Jesus is speaking are faithful disciples.  Concerning these, the Master assures that none can take them from Him or the Father, a thought which implicitly promotes the Deity of Jesus and His unity with the Father. These are upheld explicitly in John 10:30.

    The false ideas that are derived from these verses arise from a failure to understand the verb pluck (snatch, ASV) in John 10:28-29.  This word means "to take something forcefully ... to steal ... to capture in war ... to take rapaciously."<18> In using this term Jesus is stating that no one can steal one of His sheep (disciples) from Him, consistent with the shepherd imagery used in John 10:7.  This does not, however, say anything about the choices made by the disciple himself.  The statement only regards the abilities of an agent outside of the relationship between Christ and the disciple.  It is a departure from the clear meaning of Jesus' words to suggest that a disciple cannot sin and fall away (cf. Rom. 11:22; 1 Cor. 9:27; Gal. 5:4; Heb. 10:26-31; Rev. 2:4-5).

". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

God cannot lose us. If we believe we can be separated, this means that we go to God and not God calling us and bringin us into His loving arms. Which is going against His lovely Word.

In Christ.

What you fail to see is that in the above verses it is God that will not leave us or stop loving us. It is us that can stop loving him and turn away from him.

Matthew 7:21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.

2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,

3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard <I>Him,</I>