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Can Christianity survive without the Pope?

Can Christianity survive without the Pope today

  • Sure It can!

  • No It cannot!

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katholikos

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....Besides, who (aside from the Pope) can actually say that my doctrines are any more false than your own?....

Well, that is the $64 question now isn't it: Who on earth has the authority, when doctrines are in dispute, to say "Thus sayeth the Lord?" There is only one applicant for that job, the pope. The notion that the Bible is the final authority is what has led to the sorry state today of a Christianity with thousands of denominations preaching conflicting doctrines.
 
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Heber

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So if the Pope has the last word on doctrine - how come successive Popes have shown a different understanding of some Biblical concepts? It would appear some of them were as wrong as everyone else can be so why reject what others say. Popes can only be infallible until another Pope comes along and changes things, which immediately makes the previous office holder fallible, just as the rest of us are, and so it goes on and on.
 
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katholikos

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So if the Pope has the last word on doctrine - how come successive Popes have shown a different understanding of some Biblical concepts? It would appear some of them were as wrong as everyone else can be so why reject what others say. Popes can only be infallible until another Pope comes along and changes things, which immediately makes the previous office holder fallible, just as the rest of us are, and so it goes on and on.

Popes can be wrong in normal circumstances. Also, there are many areas where Catholics can have varying beliefs and still be within the bounds of orthodoxy (young earth vs. old earth being one example).

When the pope speaks infallibly, or ex cathedra, is the only time he speaks dogmatically, and that is a very rare event. Did you know that a pope has only spoken ex cathedra twice in the last 100 years? For the particulars of papal infallibility, please read THIS LINK.
 
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Heber

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That's as may be, KL, but your previous post gave the distinct impression that the pope was the only one who could give definitive answers - Protestants can't. I was merely pointing out that that is patently not the case because if the Pope can be wrong it makes his judgements no better than anyone elses. Selective infallability is really no infallibiity - you are either infallible in every pronouncement or, potentially you are not at any time. You can't have it both ways.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Scripture tells us what God says. The popes have made to many errors to be trustworthy.

Catholicism does not say to trust the man, only the church.

I think a study on what "church" means in Catholicism would benefit everyone here.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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That's as may be, KL, but your previous post gave the distinct impression that the pope was the only one who could give definitive answers - Protestants can't. I was merely pointing out that that is patently not the case because if the Pope can be wrong it makes his judgements no better than anyone elses. Selective infallability is really no infallibiity - you are either infallible in every pronouncement or, potentially you are not at any time. You can't have it both ways.

As we learn what "church" means in Catholicism I believe the teaching on "infallability" will be better understood as well.
 
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Heber

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JC - you still cannot have infallibity yesterday and not today or tomorrow. Either whoever holds the office of Pope is declared infallible, for all time OR the office holder is not infallible for all time. There cannot, by definition, be a mid-way between those two statements, unless like the madhatter in Alice in Wonderland where pronouncements "mean whatever I them to mean".
 
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Albion

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If there never was a Pope I wonder if Christianity would have ever taken off. I mean, take Peter out of the equation and what happens?

Christianity can and will survive as long as God intends for it to survive. To think that it depends upon any church officeholder is to doubt the word of God and the power and purposes of God, even if we don't realize it.

But of course the church would survive if there were no Pope! The church never heard of such a position for hundreds of years after Christ--and these were the years in which the faith spread from Britain to India. Also, the fastest growing churches today are the ones that don't accept the Pope of Rome, so we can see that the question itself is rather far-fetched.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Christianity can and will survive as long as God intends for it to survive. To think that it depends upon any church officeholder is to doubt the word of God and the power and purposes of God, even if we don't realize it.

But of course the church would survive if there were no Pope! The church never heard of such a position for hundreds of years after Christ--and these were the years in which the faith spread from Britain to India. Also, the fastest growing churches today are the ones that don't accept the Pope of Rome, so we can see that the question itself is rather far-fetched.

I have a hypothetical question for you.

What if God wanted a Pope for His church and for you to follow His church and you thought about it the way you do now?
 
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Albion

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I have a hypothetical question for you.

What if God wanted a Pope for His church and for you to follow His church and you thought about it the way you do now?

I can't imagine that if God wanted this, He wouldn't let us in on it. The idea of divine revelation is, obviously, to reveal His intentions.

But the question doesn't lead to anything. What if God wanted you to be a Druid and you thought about Druidism the way you do now? How can you answer that? All of us believe what we are convinced is right to believe, IOW is God's will. It's just a matter of how we decide.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic If there never was a Pope I wonder if Christianity would have ever taken off. I mean, take Peter out of the equation and what happens?
There are always the the other Apostles, including my bro Paul. The RCs can have Peter. :)

James 5:8 be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts blameless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him [Zech 14:5/Revelation 19:11.]
 
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