Can Christianity be meaningful and relevant?

[StormyOne]

A couple of comments from Brother Pythons got me to thinking about this question and how "christians" interact in the world around them... a couple of scenarios for your consideration:

What would you say to a young woman who believes she is bisexual and is currently involved in a same sex relationship?

What would you say to a young man who attends church but witnesses his parents fighting on a regular basis sometimes resulting in his mother being physically beaten, but he doesn't know what to do because his father is the pastor?

how would you handle this BFA? Pythons? Anyone?

 

[moicherie]

Wow! The first case I would not know what to say. However I think of the Samaritan woman who had a live in lover. Jesus never condemned her for it, he made a passing reference to her situation but continued to focus the topic about God. So there must be a lesson in His tactic when we are talking to people that are involved in sexual relations we do not approve of.

The second case any man especially minister who are abusers gets my blood up I would have to prevent myself from arranging a beat down. However I would find a way to befriend both the teen and his mother, people like that tend to not have close friends cos they are too busy hiding and covering for the abuser.

 

[StormyOne]

thanks for your response Moicherie, these scenarios highlight the point I am trying to make, I have noted that this thread has been viewed, but so far you are the only one to touch it... some christians are more than ready to cite chapter and verse about this theological issue or that theological issue, but when there is a real problem experienced by real people, we come up short far to often..... let me throw into the mix those members who are attending church but are poor and can't afford many of the basic necessities of life.... how do we interact with them?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Great questions, Stormy! I've been offline since yesterday afternoon and am just now reading your post for the first time.

What would you say to a young woman who believes she is bisexual and is currently involved in a same sex relationship?

Because I don't believe that a person's sin precludes her from the free gift of salvation, my approach would depend entirely on the nature of my relationship with the woman.

If she is a close friend and asked me what I thought about her relationship, I would be honest and tell her that, although I believe same sex relationships to be outside of God's plan, she has a God who loves her despite her sin and who will continue to draw her to Himself. I would ask her whether she views a same sex relationship as being sinful, and the reason why she has reached that conclusion.

If she is a distant acquaintance, I certainly would not seek her out to condemn her for her sin. I have enough of my own sins that I don't need to be worrying about whatever speck or plank may be in her eye.

What would you say to a young man who attends church but witnesses his parents fighting on a regular basis sometimes resulting in his mother being physically beaten, but he doesn't know what to do because his father is the pastor?

Because my wife is a licensed social worker, I would certainly ask for her help in addressing this situation. Together, we would carefully listen to what the young man has to say. I would imagine that we would also try to sit down with the wife to see if she is willing to talk about the alleged abuse (understanding that abuse victims will often deny that there is any abuse). If there are lingering concerns, we would have to make a judgment call as to whether to speak with the pastor or to speak with one of the agencies who help with abuse situations. We would be very concerned about doing anything that could cause the abuse to escalate. If the wife/mother is willing, I would welcome them to stay in my home or I would try to connect them with a shelter that works with abuse victims. Once the immediate danger is alleviated, I would certainly try to speak with the pastor and, thereafter, the church board where he pastors.

In each of the two scenarios described above, there are a number of variables that could impact the approach taken. The roadmaps I've described are certainly not the only ones that could be taken.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

some christians are more than ready to cite chapter and verse about this theological issue or that theological issue, but when there is a real problem experienced by real people, we come up short far to often

Although I agree with you on this point, you may want to be a bit more patient when you see a person bring up a passage of Scripture for the purpose of discussion. It may be that not all such individuals fit into the mold that you have cast.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

What would you say to a young woman who believes she is bisexual and is currently involved in a same sex relationship?

Nothing unless she asked. If she did, I would support her in having a better relationship with her same sex partner.

What would you say to a young man who attends church but witnesses his parents fighting on a regular basis sometimes resulting in his mother being physically beaten, but he doesn't know what to do because his father is the pastor?

There are three people who need help in this scenario. The person who needs help the most--the father--is the least likely to get it. In addition to potentially taking steps to protect the mother and son, I would befriend the father.

 

[StormyOne]

Although I agree with you on this point, you may want to be a bit more patient when you see a person bring up a passage of Scripture for the purpose of discussion. It may be that not all such individuals fit into the mold that you have cast.

BFA

which is why I said "some." The issue is do we as christians make a meaningful impact on the society around us or do we basically talk amongst ourselves? Do we have real answers for real problems? or are we content to stay in the us vs them mindset.... just kicking around some thoughts and not directing this at anyone here, that was the purpose of the thread....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

which is why I said "some." The issue is do we as christians make a meaningful impact on the society around us or do we basically talk amongst ourselves? Do we have real answers for real problems? or are we content to stay in the us vs them mindset.... just kicking around some thoughts and not directing this at anyone here, that was the purpose of the thread....

And I think you are asking some great questions. I wonder whether all of us could use a reminder on this subject from time to time. Such reminders certainly benefit me.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

let me throw into the mix those members who are attending church but are poor and can't afford many of the basic necessities of life.... how do we interact with them?

This so depends on the situation. We can help with the immediate and the systemic.

The systemic issue is why they are in the situation to begin with--which in some cases has very little to do with them. Sometimes a bunch of things go wrong over a short time--including losing a job. Other times there are larger issues with education and skill training, or individual issues that make it difficult for one of the parents to relate in the world.

It's important to get into conversation with them, help with the short-term issues if they can recevie help, and then work on the larger issues.

 

[sentipente]

Nothing unless she asked. If she did, I would support her in having a better relationship with her same sex partner.

This is likely to get some people's blood a-boiling but I believe you are absolutely correct. If humans could not have same sex relationships they would not. If the Creator did not wish for humans to have same sex relationships He would have created them incapable of having such. Whether these types of relationships are beneficial for the future of the race is a decision we have to make as a race but it cannot be done by arbitrarily excommunicating those involved from the species. We spend far too much time concerned with the types of relationships than we we do with the quality of relationships.

 

[sentipente]

It's important to get into conversation with them, help with the short-term issues if they can recevie help, and then work on the larger issues.

This brings us back to the question of community. What does it really mean? The fact is that the church community wastes much of the resources that can be used to build a strong community trying to do what it is not designed to do.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

This so depends on the situation. We can help with the immediate and the systemic.

The systemic issue is why they are in the situation to begin with--which in some cases has very little to do with them. Sometimes a bunch of things go wrong over a short time--including losing a job. Other times there are larger issues with education and skill training, or individual issues that make it difficult for one of the parents to relate in the world.

It's important to get into conversation with them, help with the short-term issues if they can recevie help, and then work on the larger issues.

Great response, Avonia.

Sadly, I have a brother who has struggled with a number of issues, including homelessness. We have tried so many things to help, and nothing has worked. We've given him money and he has blown it on drugs. We've paid his rent, only to find that he was still evicted. We've bought him groceries, but don't seem to be able to help him keep a job. Because we believe that he has mental health issues, we have hired an attorney and we are seeking to have a court order a mental health evaluation. Of course, this isn't the type of help that my brother wants (nor am I even certain on any given day that it is the right thing to do). Ultimately, there are times when it's hard to know what to do.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Great response, Avonia.

Sadly, I have a brother who has struggled with a number of issues, including homelessness. We have tried so many things to help, and nothing has worked. We've given him money and he has blown it on drugs. We've paid his rent, only to find that he was still evicted. We've bought him groceries, but don't seem to be able to help him keep a job. Because we believe that he has mental health issues, we have hired an attorney and we are seeking to have a court order a mental health evaluation. Of course, this isn't the type of help that my brother wants (nor am I even certain on any given day that it is the right thing to do). Ultimately, there are times when it's hard to know what to do.

BFA

the key though is that you tried.... and that's all that can be done at times.....

 

[sentipente]

(nor am I even certain on any given day that it is the right thing to do). Ultimately, there are times when it's hard to know what to do.

BFA

Very few problems get solved overnight. In many ways problem solving is like gambling.

 

[Adventtruth]

A couple of comments from Brother Pythons got me to thinking about this question and how "christians" interact in the world around them... a couple of scenarios for your consideration:

What would you say to a young woman who believes she is bisexual and is currently involved in a same sex relationship?

I've spoken to such a person. The conversation was more about why and why its not righteous. She seemed to think that becasue she believes she was born that way, then its ok. I showed her scripture refuting her claim and she twisted it.

What would you say to a young man who attends church but witnesses his parents fighting on a regular basis sometimes resulting in his mother being physically beaten, but he doesn't know what to do because his father is the pastor?

how would you handle this BFA? Pythons? Anyone?

I'd instruct him to call the police.


AT

 

[StormyOne]

I've spoken to such a person. The conversation was more about why and why its not righteous. She seemed to think that becasue she believes she was born that way, then its ok. I showed her scripture refuting her claim and she twisted it.

uh huh.... figures... and after she twisted it you did what?

I'd instruct him to call the police.


AT

interesting indeed....

 

[Adventtruth]

uh huh.... figures... and after she twisted it you did what?

We left the conversation alone. But I'm not backing down from my belief of sin. I'd rather tell some one the truth if asked than sugar coat and tell a lie. Yes we all sin and personal sin does not exclude one from heaven. She or he can over come through forgiveness of God. But just a question stormy...how do you get around such scripture?

(Rom 1:26) For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
(Rom 1:27) and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
(Rom 1:28) And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.


AT

 

[StormyOne]

We left the conversation alone. But I'm not backing down from my belief of sin. I'd rather tell some one the truth if asked than sugar coat and tell a lie. Yes we all sin and personal sin does not exclude one from heaven. She or he can over come through forgiveness of God. But just a question stormy...how do you get around such scripture?

(Rom 1:26) For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
(Rom 1:27) and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
(Rom 1:28) And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.


AT

Love covers a multitude of faults (sins), I am sure you are familiar with the text and might even know where its found...... your response AT is probably why you would not be able to talk to many of the young people today, and I really would not let you near my kids, love ya, but naw you would not get near them.... the bottom line is people might give what you have to say consideration IF you are in relationship with them.... they are definitely going to tune you out if the only response to their questions or problems is what you believe the bible says.... Finally, Paul was not an expert on the extent to which God loves and woos us to himself... as long as there is life there is hope....

 

[sentipente]

AT, why is it difficult to accept that people back then wrote what they perceived about the Creator and what they wrote does not necessarily bind the Creator's nature? You certainly have no problem understanding their ideas about the creation that way. You don't insist that the earth is fixed or that thunder is the voice of the Creator.

 

[Adventtruth]

Back in the 90's while SDA in another state. I spoke to a female whom use to be of our bible study group about the chior director of our church. I said that Ithought he was gay. Well that female passed those words onto the director who then called me. He asked to speak to me face to face. So I told him to come on over. When he got there, he tried to lie and deny he was gay. But as the conversation went on, he finally broke down and cried and admitted he was gay. He said that he had been molested as a child, and when he went off to college at Oakwood that he started relations with other men. He cried and confessed to me that he knew it was wrong and that he could not stop. We both prayed that night as he confessed his sin to God. He asked me to hold him accountable. But I felt no need to hold him accountable. I told him that with God all thing are possible. Do I concider him lost if he does not over come? No, thats not my call. Before that situtation, I hated gays. BUt it was through that situtation that God has shown me that no matter what, we must love people just the same. we are all made of the same stuff, we are all sinners.

I live in a different state from my sibblings. About two years ago I received a call from home from one of my sibbling that my sister has started dating a ex convict who had been locked up for 5 years. No one thought anything good would come of it. After a while they saw a change in my sister who had been a very good working single parent. I later got calls that she may be doing crack. I later got calls that she has lost much weight, I later got calls that she is neglecting her children. this past Monday I got a call that he is beating her down. No one seems to want to confont my sister and this man because she is in denial, and she is 40 years old. I may have to go home to deal with the situation. How far do we just talk and let things go and smooth things over before a life is lost. We may have to just call the police...who knows, a life may be saved.


AT