Can Baptism save us?

[DerSchweik]

The "Baptism only gets you wet" sneer is just that--an ugly thing said in order to put down other Christians. I always cringe when I hear or read it. But as for faith in Jesus, don't you think that the various places in the New Testament which teach us that he is the only way to salvation, that believing in him is what he demands, that "the just shall live by faith," and on and on are worth considering, and that those somewhat debatable expressions about letting Jesus into your heart, etc. are just popular jargon for the otherwise difficult to encapsulize idea that faith isn't mere assent but must be a genuine change of life and a complete trusting in the Lord?

IMHO, faith in Christ IS what we should be talking about and focusing on, not the theological fineries of one aspect of it, and that something we do but once in our lives, vital though it may be in that one instance. We come to Christ because we hear the gospel, and in the hearing of it we are convicted of how truly wicked we are, deserving of eternal punishment in hell, which conviction belies how desperately we need Him. We [must] come to Him in genuine conviction, pleading for changed hearts, clean consciences, trusting in Him to do that which is impossible for us to do ourselves - make us righteous in His eyes. Only when we are truly convicted of the truth about our fallen state, the justice of an eternity in hell if we remain as-is, the willingness to truly die to self and live for Him, in Him... only then will our confession be more than mere assent, our repentance genuine, and our trust in Him be of any value whatsoever.

Like you, I cringe when I hear the popular jargon being regurgitated on this topic - in part because in my 30+ years of being a Christian I still don't know how this ever became the topic it's become. It should be a given, not something of divisive debate. And yes, we should be focusing instead on encouraging one another to live faithful lives in Him. But we both know how deceitful our hearts are, and how desperately sick (Jer 17:9). C.S. Lewis wrote about how easy it is to "pamper" ourselves with easy and convenient "truths" that may change some of our behaviors, get us into church on Sundays, maybe even urge us on missionary trips and extra giving - but which never truly change us as we need changing, which cause us to cringe when we hear topics preached like sin, dying to self, and Godly giving. It is - imho - this "pampered Christianity" that gives us the popular jargon we so easily allow to fall from our lips, but which also can render us, paradoxically, disobedient to Him as well, to the point we may be the very ones to whom He utters, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say?"

You're right - "the righteous (just) man shall live by faith." Belief (assent) is easy. Faith is not.

 

[Digout]

There can no questions and arguments on this issue! Jesus is our role model, and He should be imitated. He got bapized. It is a must for a powerful and effective Christian life of witnessing for the Lord. That is our responsibility too.

 

[Nord Christian]

I was never baptized, so according to a couple of people here,
I'd be going to hell by not getting myself baptized in water?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I was never baptized, so according to a couple of people here,
I'd be going to hell by not getting myself baptized in water?

Not necessarily. But baptism visibly does what God does invisibly through other means. Without baptism, there is no union with the visible church, no assurance of salvation, no participation in the benefits of Christ's body and blood in holy communion.

I'd never suppose you were going to hell because you aren't baptized. But likewise, I can't suppose you are going to heaven.

 

[Digout]

I was never baptized, so according to a couple of people here,
I'd be going to hell by not getting myself baptized in water?

Mere baptism will not save a person! However, a saved person will get himself baptized.

Whether you go to hell of heaven is not for us to decide. The question is what prevents you from getting baptized? Only the thief on the cross had no opportunity for water baptism.

 

[Albion]

I was never baptized, so according to a couple of people here,

I haven't checked to see who you are referring to, but the idea that 'Baptism is essential to salvation' is a belief held by very few Christians and even fewer Christian churches. Don't let this decidedly minority opinion bother you.

 

[dragongunner]

Not necessarily. But baptism visibly does what God does invisibly through other means. Without baptism, there is no union with the visible church, no assurance of salvation, no participation in the benefits of Christ's body and blood in holy communion.

I'd never suppose you were going to hell because you aren't baptized. But likewise, I can't suppose you are going to heaven.

Good post.

The question is why not be baptized....? Shall we change the scriptures to fit a majority or minority view? And then they asked Peter, "How shall we be saved?" And Peter said, "Repent, but you don't have to be baptized, its not necessary, you don't really need it for salvation, which is what your asking about so we can leave that out, then after repenting and not getting baptized, you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I guess that how some people interpret it. I refuse to judge a person to going to hell because they haven't been baptized.....I will judge a person by the scripture that if you know God wants you to be obey him, but refuse too obey, for that would be rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft.

So the question is do you believe it is the will of God to be baptized....For without it there is no remission of sins. It is God who has set up the scriptures and the rules. If He has laid the foundation to repent of my sins, AND to be baptized for the remission of sins it must be for a VERY GOOD REASON. I think God knows what he is doing. They go hand in hand and they are obedience to the scriptures. Either one will deny the scripture, change the scriptures, or obey the scriptures.

 

[Nord Christian]

Not necessarily. But baptism visibly does what God does invisibly through other means. Without baptism, there is no union with the visible church, no assurance of salvation, no participation in the benefits of Christ's body and blood in holy communion.

I'd never suppose you were going to hell because you aren't baptized. But likewise, I can't suppose you are going to heaven.

When you talk of the benefits of Christ's body, it reminds me of
catholicism, as they eat the bread, which symbolizes the body
of Christ. Both my parent's were baptized as Catholics. Is this
what you're referring to?

I thought, according to the Bible that there is no purgatory.
If I croak tomorrow without getting baptized, I'm not going to
Heaven or to hell. Where would I be going then?

 

[Nord Christian]

Good post.

The question is why not be baptized....?

I'd have to find a church that does water baptisms. I'd want to make
sure that the church I joined isn't screwy.

Also, I live up in Canada, and our winters are very bitterly cold up here.
It's not like Florida or California where you can get baptized in
beautiful sunshiny weather in February. I'd have to wait til' late
Spring to get baptized in one of our lakes.

 

[Albion]

The question is why not be baptized....?

I'd have to find a church that does water baptisms. I'd want to make
sure that the church I joined isn't screwy.

Also, I live up in Canada, and our winters are very bitterly cold up here.
It's not like Florida or California where you can get baptized in
beautiful sunshiny weather in February. I'd have to wait til' late
Spring to get baptized in one of our lakes.

I'm guess that only about 97% of the churches within easy driving of your home baptize year-round.

Indoors.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

When you talk of the benefits of Christ's body, it reminds me of
catholicism, as they eat the bread, which symbolizes the body
of Christ. Both my parent's were baptized as Catholics. Is this
what you're referring to?

I thought, according to the Bible that there is no purgatory.
If I croak tomorrow without getting baptized, I'm not going to
Heaven or to hell. Where would I be going then?

Yes, I guess that sounds like Catholicism. But Catholics aren't the only ones who believe that by being baptized, you become a fuller member of Christ's visible body (= the church) and can then get the benefits of eating his body (= bread and wine in communion). Lutherans, Orthodox, and many Anglicans also believe this, and many other Anglicans as well as Presbyterians and Methodists are believe this in a more symbolic way.

And I don't mean to say that you'd go to purgatory. I just mean I, and other people, have no way of knowing where you're going- either heaven or hell. We just don't know, because without connection to the visible church through baptism, we can't tell.

Think of it like this: imagine the church as Noah's ark, and baptism is the way of getting onto the ark (1 Peter 3:20-21). Without baptism, you may still be hiding somewhere on the ark without anyone knowing, or you may be hanging on to the side of the ark. But you're not on the ship's manifest, so Noah doesn't really know. When the ship lands on dry ground, you may be saved, or you may have fallen off the side, or you may have starved hiding in one of the animal stalls; we just don't know.

 

[Albion]

Yes, I guess that sounds like Catholicism. But Catholics aren't the only ones who believe that by being baptized, you become a fuller member of Christ's visible body (= the church) and can then get the benefits of eating his body (= bread and wine in communion). Lutherans, Orthodox, and many Anglicans also believe this, and many other Anglicans as well as Presbyterians and Methodists are believe this in a more symbolic way.

I don't know any Anglicans who think baptism is only symbolic.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I don't know any Anglicans who think baptism is only symbolic.

That's why I wrote "more" symbolic, not "merely." I was trying to hint at the distinction between straight-up baptismal regeneration and belief in a halfway covenant.

 

[dragongunner]

Good post.

The question is why not be baptized....?

I'd have to find a church that does water baptisms. I'd want to make
sure that the church I joined isn't screwy.

Also, I live up in Canada, and our winters are very bitterly cold up here.
It's not like Florida or California where you can get baptized in
beautiful sunshiny weather in February. I'd have to wait til' late
Spring to get baptized in one of our lakes.

Thats good news......I got baptized in winter at the indoor pool at the YMCA. Even if you don't join a church someone will baptize you, may God lead you.

 

[DerSchweik]

Folks, it's not about what this church says about baptism... or that church... it's about what the bible says. And based on what I typically encounter, including some of the posts in this thread, very few people know the first thing about what the bible actually teaches about baptism, relying primarily on what their tradition may teach, what their church teaches, what they've heard from others, what their preacher or pastor says...

Seriously, sit down some day; do a word study; expand it into a topical study. Look at all the passages. Look at their context. Put aside whatever it is you think you know and let the bible speak.

 

[Albion]

That's why I wrote "more" symbolic, not "merely." I was trying to hint at the distinction between straight-up baptismal regeneration and belief in a halfway covenant.

Hmm. I guess I never run into that kind of conclusion. After all, we all believe that there's symbolism in any sacrament.

OTOH, I did note that you put us with Presbyterians and Methodists, as opposed to what the reader might expect (Baptists, Pentecostals, etc.), so that did hint at what you are saying here.

 

[Digout]

Good post.

The question is why not be baptized....?

I'd have to find a church that does water baptisms. I'd want to make
sure that the church I joined isn't screwy.

Also, I live up in Canada, and our winters are very bitterly cold up here.
It's not like Florida or California where you can get baptized in
beautiful sunshiny weather in February. I'd have to wait til' late
Spring to get baptized in one of our lakes.

In our church I was attending in USA, there was an inside baptismal small pond that can let water at room warm temperature. One should not be allowed to wait for a season when it comes to baptism!

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Folks, it's not about what this church says about baptism... or that church... it's about what the bible says. And based on what I typically encounter, including some of the posts in this thread, very few people know the first thing about what the bible actually teaches about baptism, relying primarily on what their tradition may teach, what their church teaches, what they've heard from others, what their preacher or pastor says...

Seriously, sit down some day; do a word study; expand it into a topical study. Look at all the passages. Look at their context. Put aside whatever it is you think you know and let the bible speak.

Yes. And I did, which is why I went from being a non-denominational evangelical to a high church Lutheran.