Can atheists pray?

[Eudaimonist]

I'm an atheist on a Christian board. Confrontation is fun!!

Amen.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[wonderment]

I'm wondering if any Christians think some of the Christian mystics may have been "closet atheists"? Have people read Mesiter Eckhart and The Cloud of Unknowing? I think I'll start a new thread on that

 

[quatona]

Whatever atheists might do I personally would hesitate to call it "praying". I´m not a great fan of ad hoc redefinitions.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Whatever atheists might do I personally would hesitate to call it "praying". I´m not a great fan of ad hoc redefinitions.

It's not quite ad hoc since one is supposed to pray in the very same way one would normally, except that one doesn't care that it is to someone non-existent. I don't see what else they could possibly call it, so "atheist prayer" seems fine, even given the absurdity of praying to no-one.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[DailyBlessings]

I'm wondering if any Christians think some of the Christian mystics may have been "closet atheists"? Have people read Mesiter Eckhart and The Cloud of Unknowing? I think I'll start a new thread on that

I'm not even certain that some of the non-closeted athiests were actually atheists, but certainly Meister Eckhart was not- his theology is similar to that of many over the ages. Jesus himself taught a very mystic faith, though one grounded in practical action. Do not mistake intelligence for atheism.

 

[SonicBOOM]

What do people think about the possibility of atheists having a spiritual life and praying?

The whole theory and practice is set out at the atheistprayer.blogspot.com website. I'm also including the summary from a different site.

“Atheist prayer is a spiritual practice developed by D. Midbar. Midbar argues that all human beings have spiritual needs, and that prayer is the universal vehicle for the expression of these needs. To deny such needs is to lead a diminished life.

Atheists are not prevented from accessing human spirituality because they have concluded that God does not exist. On the contrary, they are in a position to have deeper and more authentic religious experience because they have freed their minds from theistic myths and irrational beliefs.

Midbar suggests that many great theological thinkers of the past may have been "closet atheists," prevented from declaring their true beliefs for fear of reprisals by religious authorities. Midbar quotes Christian mystics like Meister Eckhart and "The Cloud of Unknowing" as evidence of atheistic thinking within the prayer tradition.

Midbar's text is an explanation of the paradox of atheistic prayer. Midbar acknowledges that "atheist prayer" may strike the reader as an oxymoron but upon deeper examination is a consistent philosophy that provides a valid spiritual paradigm for the 21st century and beyond."

well if atheists prayed they wouldn't be atheists. Outside of religious ritual... if you pray it assumes you believe in a god. Which counters atheism. Paul says that it takes faith to pray because 2 things are required. First you gotta believe he actually exists and second, you gotta believe he cares enough to hear you. I think if atheists were to pray, they wouldn't be true to themselves. I'm not by any means downing atheism. i just am concerned about honesty thats all.

 

[R3quiem]

On another forum I read that some atheists prayed but it was only to cement their disbelief

That's not really praying then. That's just disrespectful.

As for atheists praying for real, that's great. If they are genuinely praying to see if someone is listening and asking for the Truth or something along those lines, then I encourage it. I was an agnostic for most of my teens and started praying a lot and that's how I went back to being Christian, because I felt my prayers were somewhat answered.

 

[quatona]

That's not really praying then. That's just disrespectful.

Which part of it is disrespectful (the "praying" or the "will to cement their disbelief, what about it is disrespectful and towards whom is it disrespectful?

 

[R3quiem]

Which part of it is disrespectful (the "praying" or the "will to cement their disbelief, what about it is disrespectful and towards whom is it disrespectful?

I'm not sure if you read my whole post or if you just saw the first line then commented. As said in my post, atheists praying is a good thing.

However, I think it's pretty bad to pray just to prove to yourself that your prayers aren't answered. I can't really even imagine how sarcastic a prayer like that would be.

 

[Eudaimonist]

well if atheists prayed they wouldn't be atheists. Outside of religious ritual... if you pray it assumes you believe in a god. Which counters atheism.

While I can sympathize with your view, it is clear from the link that the ritual is done solely for the psychological benefits of focusing one's mind on certain benevolent thoughts. The prayer isn't really addressed to anyone -- it's a kind of mental exercise.

I don't think there is anything that "counters" atheism in this.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

dp, sorry.

 

[quatona]

I'm not sure if you read my whole post or if you just saw the first line then commented.

I read your whole post and responded to the first line. Since the question I have is not answered in the rest of your post, I do not really see a problem with that.

As said in my post, atheists praying is a good thing.

You made your judgements dependent on certain conditions, and you called it "disrespectful" under certain conditions. That´s the part I had and have problems understanding.

However, I think it's pretty bad to pray just to prove to yourself that your prayers aren't answered.

So was "disrespectful" just the first negative term you could get hold of to describe it (and you actually just meant that the idea caused you unspecific "bad feelings), or am I supposed to take this judgement seriously?

I can't really even imagine how sarcastic a prayer like that would be.

Sarcastic? How so? Sarcastic towards whom?
I have problems imagining such a prayer myself, btw. And since I can not really imagine it, I wouldn´t know how to come to a conclusion that it must be sarcastic.

 

[onewithnature]

Problem is, if these are Materialist Athiests as is most liley by far, they can't have ANY spirituality since they have no spirit.

Athiest prayer boils down to knowlingly talking to an imaginary freind or to your plants or something, so much for "more authentic religious experience because they have freed their minds from theistic myths and irrational beliefs."

what makes you think an atheist doesn´t believe in spirits? What makes you believe that an Atheist doesn´t believe in divine patterns and creations and untamed energy.
An Atheist simply does not worship a God, but they can stil be spiritual, in fact, more spiritual than a christian.

Most Christians I know have very little spiritual understanding, and it makes me sad.


An atheist sees the universe as a divine pattern which can nether be created or destroyed. Within that universe, anything can be found.

 

[Quietuss]

Midbar can push his morals right back up his... anyways no an atheist can't pray, kind of like how they can't sin.

 

[AuraTwilight]

what makes you think an atheist doesn´t believe in spirits? What makes you believe that an Atheist doesn´t believe in divine patterns and creations and untamed energy.
An Atheist simply does not worship a God, but they can stil be spiritual, in fact, more spiritual than a christian.

Most Christians I know have very little spiritual understanding, and it makes me sad.


An atheist sees the universe as a divine pattern which can nether be created or destroyed. Within that universe, anything can be found.

You're talking about a Deist. An Atheist believes there is no divinity or supernatural power supreme over cold, hard, science.

 

[Eudaimonist]

You're talking about a Deist. An Atheist believes there is no divinity or supernatural power supreme over cold, hard, science.

Actually, science can be warm and fuzzy if you just get to know it better.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[AuraTwilight]

Well, yea, but "Cold and hard" sounds cooler.

 

[onewithnature]

You're talking about a Deist. An Atheist believes there is no divinity or supernatural power supreme over cold, hard, science.

An Atheist is simply someone without a religion. They donñt worship a god, but they can stil believe that there is spirits out there, or even Gods. They don´t believe in the supernatural in a sense that they believe everything is natural.

There are some atheists who don´t believe in anything unless it´s proven by science. There are also those who say they don´t believe in anything unless it´s proven, but they actually do.

Eudaimonist: well said

 

[Received]

If Eckhart is an atheist, gah, count me in!

 

[AuraTwilight]

An Atheist is simply someone without a religion. They donñt worship a god, but they can stil believe that there is spirits out there, or even Gods. They don´t believe in the supernatural in a sense that they believe everything is natural.

There are some atheists who don´t believe in anything unless it´s proven by science. There are also those who say they don´t believe in anything unless it´s proven, but they actually do.

Again, not true. The existence of spirits and the supernatural would imply some sort of deity, and even more, almost any textbook definition rejects any acceptance of supernatural phenomena.

Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, spirits, magic, or supernatural phenomena.

From the Encyclopedia Brittanica.