Can anything stop Catholic infighting?

[Michie]

Yes you are reading me wrong. I think the op pretty much says it all.

Michie, with due respect, from the way I'm reading your quoted post it seems to me as though you are again cheering for both teams.

On the one hand you applaud the Church for teaching what it believes, and you encourage the Church to reach out to more people.
That's good.
But then you turn around and say that it's impossible to expect those who are outside the Church to adopt those same Catholic beliefs as their own.
ie " entertaining fantasies of things that cannot be changed".
Am I reading you wrong?

If that were indeed true that change is impossible, why then would Christ give His followers the Great Commission and expect them to change the world?

es

 

[pdudgeon]

Yes you are reading me wrong. I think the op pretty much says it all.

es

ok, thanks for your response. If the OP pretty much says it all, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Michie]

*dp*

 

[Michie]

Why am I not surprised? I know from seeing you debate with others, these things usually go absolutely nowhere. I thought I was clear as was the OP. I'm not going to dissect a clear OP something into a quagmire of endless arguement.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Perhaps the very reason that we're fighting is due to the fact that we care about mother church?

 

[Davidnic]

I don't think anyone here is disputing the care. I think sometimes people fall to extremes for things they care about. The problem is is when it goes to extremes people can love a tree rather than the whole Forest. A line but not the whole poem.

I think that happens to the best of people.

 

[Michie]

Stabat- I posted an article and gave my thoughts on it. I followed up by asking people not to go to extremes showing By a link that the Pope says we should walk with trans people while fighting the concept of gender theory. So neither side, left or right takes it and turns it into a huge conspiracy theory either way. You implied I was talking about morals. I do not like being approached as if I am the enemy. It is one things to politely disagree, quite another to take a post and imply things that were never said. This automatic hostility some of you seem to have is your issue. But I'm not going to be a punching bag for whatever frustrations some of you may have concerning the Church. Either we let God be God and patiently call out what we see right or wrong or do not understand or we continued to nurse this obvious hostility. I'm not going to waste my time playing this very unhealthy game. Either we discuss the op and what we like or dislike about it or we don't. But do not infer that because I see the nun helping these people find a better life that you care about the Church and I do not. Thanks.

Perhaps the very reason that we're fighting is due to the fact that we care about mother church?

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Stabat- I posted an article and gave my thoughts on it. I followed up by asking people not to go to extremes showing By a link that the Pope says we should walk with trans people while fighting the concept of gender theory. So neither side, left or right takes it and turns it into a huge conspiracy theory either way. You implied I was talking about morals. I do not like being approached as if I am the enemy. It is one things to politely disagree, quite another to take a post and imply things that were never said. This automatic hostility some of you seem to have is your issue. But I'm not going to be a punching bag for whatever frustrations some of you may have concerning the Church. Either we let God be God and patiently call out what we see right or wrong or do not understand or we continued to nurse this obvious hostility. I'm not going to waste my time playing this very unhealthy game. Either we discuss the op and what we like or dislike about it or we don't. But do not infer that because I see the nun helping these people find a better life that you care about the Church and I do not. Thanks.

Oh dear, oh dear.
I didn't quote you or anyone else for that matter in that post...
My response is that while you say we (not entirely sure who "we" are anyway?) always see others as the enemy I'd turn it around and say please stop playing victim, it doesn't suit you.

You jumped into conclusions just now, I reflected in this thread hence I didn't quote anyone.
My reflection was ironically the opposite of what you read into it. I asked a question and left it for people to think about.
Perhaps we're fighting (everyone, both liberals and trads) because we all care about the church and Rome?

Perhaps we consider love to be quite different, I mean libs have a different way of understanding the concept of love than us trads, but love continues to be the driving force within both camps.

Oy vey, I hope you read carefully through this post. Don't lash out before you know and fully understand the intention this time.

In this perspective fighting could be seen as a signal of despite all of our differences (liberal and traditionalists) our shared love for the church.

God bless.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I don't think anyone here is disputing the care. I think sometimes people fall to extremes for things they care about. The problem is is when it goes to extremes people can love a tree rather than the whole Forest. A line but not the whole poem.

I think that happens to the best of people.

Yes.
I agree with you, seeing through the tip of our own nose regardless of color is easy to forget and neglect.

"Can you see the forest over there?, - no i can't, there's far too many tree's blocking my view"

 

[Michie]

Because I was thinking we were in another thread. Posting on a phone can be confusing. My apologies.

Oh dear, oh dear.
I didn't quote you or anyone else for that matter in that post...
My response is that while you say we (not entirely sure who "we" are anyway?) always see others as the enemy I'd turn it around and say please stop playing victim, it doesn't suit you.

You jumped into conclusions just now, I reflected in this thread hence I didn't quote anyone.
My reflection was ironically the opposite of what you read into it. I asked a question and left it for people to think about.
Perhaps we're fighting (everyone, both liberals and trads) because we all care about the church and Rome?

Perhaps we consider love to be quite different, I mean libs have a different way of understanding the concept of love than us trads, but love continues to be the driving force within both camps.

Oy vey, I hope you read carefully through this post. Don't lash out before you know and fully understand the intention this time.

In this perspective fighting could be seen as a signal of despite all of our differences (liberal and traditionalists) our shared love for the church.

God bless.

 

[Michie]

From this article I just read.
http://catholicexchange.com/catholic-church-gods-rehabilitation-center

"In my opinion, the manure in the Catholic Church today is thick and deep-at various other times throughout history, it has been very thick, too. But this doesn't mean we flee or think any less of the farmer (God) or his field (the Catholic Church). God is doing something deeply mysterious in our days, but only those who pray will stick around during the stench and reap the benefits of the field."

 

[StevenMerten]

"He thinks that the Church is in trouble. Yes, I know, I know. Water is still wet, etc. But hear him out:

Specifically, Catholics in the West – and that includes those in the Vatican – have adopted the liberal-versus-conservative mindset that has fractured non-Catholic denominations. It’s as if Christians are required to choose between two set menus, in which social justice comes with a side salad of transgender blessings – or, alternatively, you can opt for solemn liturgy with free-market seasoning."
​

I do have to laugh a little at the article. It is like you are in a severe car crash, down a cliff, with a main artery gushing blood, and you are concerned that all your pennies flew out of the ash tray and are scattered and lost.

Apparitions, Locutions, along with apocalyptic scriptures, from God have been telling us for Centuries that God is very, very angry and upset with all the wickedness on earth, and He is preparing a great Chastisement. The present leadership of our Church is totally ignoring God on this. God is all universal forgiveness in present Catholic leadership preaching. So, to them, why not make it easier for gays, bisexuals, and transgender to receive the Sacrament of Marriage. This is not God’s plan! God’s plan is to purge the unrepentant wicked from the earth, initiate Messianic Reign, and bring His Faithful, no matter how few, into Christ’s Kingdom Come on earth. God’s Faithful will inherit the earth and Jesus will wipe away their every tear. There will be peace on earth. This is God’s plan.

NAB LUK 17:23
But on the day Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

NAB2 ISA 24:3 Devastation of the World: A Remnant Saved.
The earth is utterly laid waste, utterly stripped, for the LORD has decreed this thing. The earth mourns and fades, the world languishes and fades; both heaven and earth languish. The earth is polluted because of its inhabitants, who have transgressed laws, violated statutes, broken the ancient covenant. Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants pay for their guilt; Therefore they who dwell on earth turn pale, and few men are left.

NAB2 PSA 110:1
A psalm of David. The LORD says to you, my lord: “Take your throne at my righthand, while I make your enemies your footstool.” The scepter of your sovereign might the LORD will extend from Zion. The LORD says: “Rule over your enemies! Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like the dew I begot you.” The LORD has sworn and will not waver: “Like Melchizedek you are a priest forever.” At your right hand is the Lord, who crushes kings on the day of wrath, Who, robed in splendor, judges nations, crushes heads across the wide earth,


NAB MAT 13:36
The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears ought to hear."


NAB2 ACT 26:17
I shall deliver you from this people and from the Gentiles to whom I send you, to open their eyes "that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may obtain forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been consecrated by faith in me.’


JESUS, THE DIVINE MERCY, by St.Faustina

The devotion to Jesus as the Divine Mercy is based on the writings of Saint Faustina, a Polish nun who wrote a diary of about 600 pages recording the revelations she received about God's mercy.

Jesus looked at me and said, Souls perish in spite of My bitter Passion. I am giving them the last hope of salvation; that is, the Feast of My Mercy. If they will not adore My mercy, they will perish for all eternity. Secretary of My mercy, write, tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (Diary - Divine Mercy in My Soul, 965)

The Blessed Virgin Mary :

... you have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh, how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for [granting] mercy. If you keep silent now, you will be answering for a great number of souls on that terrible day. ... (635)

Quoted From:.www.DivineMercy.com
​

 

[chevyontheriver]

Specifically, Catholics in the West- and that includes those in the Vatican- have adopted a liberal- versus- conservative mindset that has fractured non-Catholic denominations. It's as if Christians are required to choose between two set menus, in which social Justice comes with a side salad of transgender blessings- or, alternatively, you can opt with solemn liturgy with free market seasoning.

Continued below.
UK’s CH: Can anything stop Catholic infighting?

I don't know what will stop the infighting, but it isn't exactly a new thing either. Pope John Paul II and pope Benedict XVI had their resisters and people who very much disliked these two excellent popes. It's just that the shoe is on the other foot now, so it looks very different.

For myself, I'm trying not to let pope Francis kill my joy. I'm trying to endure him by ignoring him, not attending to his latest in flight press conferences and the rumor mill that has sprung up around him. So far it's working more or less. I do not intend to speak against Francis. I try to be a good and faithful follower of Jesus, with neither side salads of transgenderism or free market seasoning. I'm just enduring, or trying to.

I'm off on retreat this weekend. A Jesuit run silent retreat that I really look forward to year after year.