Can anyone here say yes to this?

[MbiaJc]

How sad that because of my gender I am not allowed to worship my Lord and Saviour in church!

I'm a salvo, which should give you an idea on my beliefs (we greatly encourage ANYONE who feels led to preach the gospel to do so - regardless of gender) - we also have had female generals!

I agree with abbygirl - and it wasn't FORBID not - it was PERMIT not, and it was PAUL who did this - NOT JESUS.

Jesus said Go into all the world and preach the gospel - and I don't see any gender being mentioned there, do you?

I focus on what Jesus said. He tells me to PREACH! And I will tell my daughters the same thing - if God lays something on your heart to share, or lays it on your heart to be a minister - GO FOR IT!

Sasch

Well you fall in the catagory with most today. They don't care what the Bible teaches, for they have their own doctrine.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

What's wrong with me preaching the gospel - when that's what Jesus has asked ALL of us to do?

He didn't say 'men go preach the gospel - women shut up', or did he???

Last I saw we were ALL commanded to go into all the world, preaching the gospel.


Who's coming with me???

Sasch

 

[mary pukal]

women is not to preach but we are to teach. For examble ... teach children sunday school.

 

[mary pukal]

What's wrong with me preaching the gospel - when that's what Jesus has asked ALL of us to do?

He didn't say 'men go preach the gospel - women shut up', or did he???

Last I saw we were ALL commanded to go into all the world, preaching the gospel.


Who's coming with me???

Sasch

AMEN

 

[Beoga]

My position is that anyone who isn't God should sit down and shut up when a woman starts preaching, same as a man, and listen to the words that God gives those He calls.

Preaching is a vocation. You don't sit around comparing health benefits and decide you'd rather preach than do accounting. It is a calling. God tells you to do it.

assuming that women preaching in church is forbidden by Scripture, would God call someone to do something that contrary to Scripture?

There is neither male nor female in Christ. We are all just people, and God will speak where He wishes.

so does this change male and female roles?

 

[Beoga]

What's wrong with me preaching the gospel - when that's what Jesus has asked ALL of us to do?

He didn't say 'men go preach the gospel - women shut up', or did he???

Last I saw we were ALL commanded to go into all the world, preaching the gospel.


Who's coming with me???

Sasch

would your preaching the gospel be to male believers inside the church or unbelievers outside the church?

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Doesn't matter in my opinion...

Both of them are preaching the gospel! Whether it's in a pulpit or on the street, if I'm using the Bible - I SHOULD be therefore PREACHING the gospel...

I stand by what I said. God can use ANYONE to preach the gospel, and desperately LOVES it when his people (not his MEN) go and share his word with others.

I doubt us woman will get into trouble when we get to heaven and it is found we shared the word of the Lord with others. Can you REALLY see God saying 'naughty girl! You were there teaching the word of the Lord! You are going to hell!' I'm sorry, but that's what matters to me - and I honestly believe God will be APPLAUDING those who shared His word, and not yelling at them because they were women and doing so'!

If I remember correctly, that's what God wants us all to do!

Sasch

 

[Beoga]

an interesting article:Prophecy-Yes, But Teaching-No: Paul's Consistent Advocacy of Women's Participation Without Governing Authority
http://www.cbmw.org/resources/articles/prophecy_teaching.pdf

 

[FreeinChrist]

I was initially surprized when I came to this conclusion, but it sure does fit with the whole Bible. My wife is silent in church, and I think that the whole universe is watching her in awe because she is a woman of rare obedience. She prays everywhere else out loud, but not in church. I sing loud enough for both of us to be well-represented in the song service worship. I can speak for my family because I rule it, hopefully well, as the Bible requires me to do.

How sad - really. She doesn't sing out praise to God?
So much for "make a joyful noise unto the Lord".....

You do realize that when Paul wrote that letter, the Corinthian church met in homes, not a church building?


amazing....

 

[FreeinChrist]

My position is that anyone who isn't God should sit down and shut up when a woman starts preaching, same as a man, and listen to the words that God gives those He calls.

Preaching is a vocation. You don't sit around comparing health benefits and decide you'd rather preach than do accounting. It is a calling. God tells you to do it.

There is neither male nor female in Christ. We are all just people, and God will speak where He wishes.

God is no respecter of persons. Our cultural norms are, to God, just us being stupid again. He doesn't care. He will, perhaps, even occasionally shake them up a bit just to remind us how irrelevant our earthly society is compared to His Kingdom.

ah ...okay. I thought you were saying the opposite.

 

[FreeinChrist]

If one is narrow minded enough to think God is small enough to deal in His Holy Bible with a local custom, then one would believe that. However it had nothing to do with customs. The Holy Spirit through Paul was laying the rulde for worship when the whole church comes together.

BTW a wonan can't be the husband of one wife, so she is not to be a preacher till she can.

If one takes the Bible for the final authority for our beliefs one has to say yes it is a shame if she prays or prophisesn or introputs the service with her questions. When the Church is come together.

I think you are taking a very simplistic approach to interpretation.
If you really look at that passage about a pastor being the husband of one wife...it means he isn't a polygamist. The literal translation is 'one woman's husband.'
And from the interpretation you are showing regarding women, you must be restricting the role of pastor to only married men - as in no single men.

Was Timothy married? What about Paul?
Why would Paul say it is better to be single, yet claim a pastor has to be a husband of one wife?

 

[johnd]

Is it a shame for women to speak in the churches?

I believe it is because of 1 Corinthians 14:35. Does anyone else here believe this?

The passage refers to women chattering while the Word is being preached. It is also a shame for men or women to speak out in Church in a disorderly fashion:

1 Corinthians 14:26-33

26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints,

 

[n2wolves]

Either the entire Bible is divinely inspired or not Paul's teachings aren't his own. During worship service women are not to lead prayer or preach but are allowed to teach children during Sunday school. As far as preaching to Gospel, women can teach men outside the worship service; thus fulfilling Christ's commandment to spread theGospel.

 

[johnd]

We must also remember that we are a kingdom of priests:

Revelation 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

1 Peter 2:4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” 8 and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

That's both men and women clergy and laity.

 

[seebs]

assuming that women preaching in church is forbidden by Scripture, would God call someone to do something that contrary to Scripture?

Occasionally.

[bible]Matthew 12:1-8[/bible]

God called David to do something contrary to Scripture, and affirmed that he was right to do it.

so does this change male and female roles?

It denies them entirely. The only difference between men and women is the flesh. There is no difference in the Spirit. Men impregnate, women bear babies. Men are on the average taller. Stuff like that. There is no difference in the Spirit, and each person's roles are chosen by God independent of such things.

 

[johnd]

Bear in mind there are certain limitations aside from that already mentioned about orderliness and silence when there is no interpreter of tongues.

1 Timothy 2:9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

This has nothing to do with ability or culture or era or geographic location. It has to do with the fact that the woman was the first to break fellowship with God in eden.

So a woman may not have authority over a man in matters of the faith (teaching or instruction included). That does not mean she cannot over other women or over male and female children.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Bear in mind there are certain limitations aside from that already mentioned about orderliness and silence when there is no interpreter of tongues.

1 Timothy 2:9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

This has nothing to do with ability or culture or era or geographic location. It has to do with the fact that the woman was the first to break fellowship with God in eden.

So a woman may not have authority over a man in matters of the faith (teaching or instruction included). That does not mean she cannot over other women or over male and female children.

I notice you highlight one part.
Now lets look at all of it:

" I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety,"
Does this mean that men CAN dress immodestly and without decency and propriety?

"not with braided hair " - so is a woman braiding her hair going to hell? acting the harlot? Any godly women you know who have braided hair? I know many.

"or gold or pearls or expensive clothes," - so can men wear costly clothes and wear gold? Know any godly women who wear gold wedding bands with a diamond engagement ring? Is she being disobedient to God?

"but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." -
Aren't men ALSO suppose to do good deeds?

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission." - and shouldn't the male Christian learn in quietness and submission? Doesn't the bible also say:
1Pe 5:5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to {your} elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

1Pe 5:6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. " Do you realize that the Greek word for authority in this verse indicates a dictatorial power? So if some young man (20's) is saying that Jesus rose, but it was just spritual, that angels had taken the body....I should be silent?

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
Eve was deceived....but Adam chose to disobey God! And Paul writes elsewhere:
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Please tell you don't think that a woman is saved by having children!!!
A careful exegesis of this passage in Greek shows that women are saved by THE childbirth ( there is a definite article in the Greek) - as in through the birth, life and death, resurrection of Jesus Christ.

And no - this statement does not imply that godly women survive childbirth - and to die in childbirth indicates a lack of faith. Some folks interpret it like that .


And yes, this passge in Timothy has much to do with the culture of the time, as it was written to Timothy when he was a pastor in Ephesus - where there were many temples, including temples with temple prostitutes. Those prostitutes wore braided hair, costly immodest garments, gold and pearls.... it is very much about culture of that time and that Christian women should not be confused with pagan prostitutes.

 

[FreeinChrist]

AND let's look at I Timothy 2:8

1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

So - are you men lifting your hands when you pray? Every time?

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Just a query...

For most of my life, when I've heard people say 'oh women can't preach - and that's in the bible!' they've often said 'teach sunday school' when I've asked what, therefore, CAN I do in church...

Isn't teaching preaching? Wouldn't I still be in authority over men in Sunday school? And most of all...

Where in the Bible (if you're using the Bible argument for why I can't preach) does it say I can teach Sunday School?

Sasch -> who still thinks this is taken WAY out of context, and is about to REP FreeInChrist!

 

[johnd]

I have seen every argumentative attempt to get around the text of 1 Timothy 2:9-15. From "let's look at all of it" arguments to thesis / antithesis arguments about immodest dress for men to it was an ancient cultural thing in the middle east 2000 years ago...

But Paul silences all arguments by alluding to the progenitors of the entire human race and to the first act of sin that damned humanity to hell.

It just simply is what the Bible says. I have argued this to the enth degree and to the tesnes of the Greek used and it still comes up women cannot usurp authority nor teach men (Sunday school or otherwise) regarding the faith.

And I did start with previous posts that it is proper for men to be silent in Church too and I specified the times.

It is just as wrong for men to try to enslave their wives in the name of Christianity as it is for women to try to feminize the faith. Both have been tried but it was wrong on both counts.

There's a million things in life we can have and a million things we cannot have. Our happiness depends on which we dwell on. I don't know about you, but I am going to be happy with the things I can have rather than fussing and being miserable over the things I cannot have.