Can Amil prove with Scripture that the beast is in the pit during the thousand years?

[Earburner]

Angels are not demons. The rebel angels have literally done nothing since being chained in the pit. And the earth still receives light from the lights in the sky. "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork." "On earth" is not "in chains of darkness", nor are the angels free to just move around on earth. Not until the 5th Trumpet. The first woe, b

As I did say:
"Demons are the current state of being of the fallen angels, that were cast out of Heaven onto this earth, and shall never again return to Heaven. This earth is now their only home. Symbolically, it is called the "bottomless pit", the place of their "endless grave."

> Evidently, you have NOT examined the KJV use of the word "pit", in the Strongs Concordance.

This earth... IS the grave place of endless death for all the fallen angels. There length of death is "bottomless".
They are no longer holy angels, but rather are unholy angels, aka demons, who are now contrary to the KoG, and are 100% against God.

And yes, the word "hell" also means grave.
As for "chains of darkness", you can see that in
KJV-2Pet.2[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [the earth], and delivered them into chains of darkness [void of God's Light and truth],
to be reserved [on earth] unto judgment;

> Even PM believers understand and accept that this earth will be totally destroyed, and along with it is hell, which is all the graves.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree. Premils like David try to say that the beast being in the bottomless pit means it is completely inactive. Yet, John said that one of the beast's heads "is" at the time he wrote the book. So, how could the beast be completely inactive while at the same time one of its heads "is"? That does not make any sense. This is something that Premils should think about as it relates to what being bound in the bottomless pit really means.

The head (king/kingdom) that "is" at the time John wrote the book would've been the Roman empire, as you indicated later in your post. Well, the Roman empire certainly was not completely inactive at the time John wrote the book! So, therefore, the beast was not completely inactive at the time he wrote the book despite being bound in the bottomless pit. So, for John to say the beast "is not" at the time he wrote the book did not mean the beast was completely inactive, but rather meant that the beast was restrained to an extent. The restraint of wickedness that Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2 relates directly to that.

I don't think that is exactly the view. Obviously even Premil would see this as power, not a being that comes and goes. Satan's power has been restricted since the Cross. That power is returned during the 42 months. Then for 1,000 years, there is no Satan, nor any power of sin, itself. No sin nature. It is the iron rod rule. Christ will not allow any rebellion to take hold. They will be instantly killed. Then after the 1,000 years, Satan will have one last go at it. But no beast and no power. Only deception, will bring out the worst in some humans. After fire consumes them, then Death itself will be defeated. Death being the last enemy after Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Timtofly]

As I did say:
"Demons are the current state of being of the fallen angels, that were cast out of Heaven onto this earth, and shall never again return to Heaven. This earth is now their only home. Symbolically, it is called the "bottomless pit", the place of their "endless grave."

> Evidently, you have NOT examined the KJV use of the word "pit", in the Strongs Concordance.

This earth... IS the grave place of endless death for all the fallen angels. There length of death is "bottomless".
They are no longer holy angels, but rather are unholy angels, aka demons, who are now contrary to the KoG, and are 100% against God.

And yes, the word "hell" also means grave.
As for "chains of darkness", you can see that in
KJV-2Pet.2[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [the earth], and delivered them into chains of darkness [void of God's Light and truth],
to be reserved [on earth] unto judgment;

> Even PM believers understand and accept that this earth will be totally destroyed, and along with it is hell, which is all the graves.

This earth is not the grave period. You have no Scripture to prove that. Only conjecture.

The earth that flees away is not it being destroyed in judgment. Reality just ceases to exist, and is replaced by a new reality.

Some claim that prior to Genesis 1:1 there was a different reality. Probably not, but Revelation 21:1 is a Genesis 1:1 moment. It literally is a brand new reality. If God even lets us, some may say remember that reality prior to Genesis 1:1 in the NHNE. Except that Genesis 1:1 will read as Revelation 21:1.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

So earth is always the earth, never the grave. The grave is under the earth.

 

[Earburner]

This earth is not the grave period. You have no Scripture to prove that. Only conjecture.

The earth that flees away is not it being destroyed in judgment. Reality just ceases to exist, and is replaced by a new reality.

Some claim that prior to Genesis 1:1 there was a different reality. Probably not, but Revelation 21:1 is a Genesis 1:1 moment. It literally is a brand new reality. If God even lets us, some may say remember that reality prior to Genesis 1:1 in the NHNE. Except that Genesis 1:1 will read as Revelation 21:1.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

So earth is always the earth, never the grave. The grave is under the earth.

Satan was cast out of Heaven and on to the earth.
Satan and the angels that fell with him, fell TO THE EARTH.
Rev.12[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
When did that happen?

Jesus tells us in Luke 11[17] And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
[18] And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
[19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Jesus said that He beheld Satan fall from heaven, but then in Revelation, He says that Satan came down to us, knowing that he has a short time.

The question is: when did satan come down to us, and how long is a short time?

Well, that length of time can be from many perspectives, as to whose idea or thoughts of time, is being counted.
Is that "short time" according to:
1. When the gospel is preached unto the ends of the earth?
2. God's time of Grace, according to His eternity?
3. When there won't be any faith on the earth?
4. According to our time, satans "knows" the literal date of his end?
5. Ever since when Jesus beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven?
6. In the Day when Jesus was crucified , resurrected and Ascended into Heaven?

The earth is satan's prison. He is on death row HERE ON THIS PLANET.

 

[Earburner]

So earth is always the earth, never the grave. The grave is under the earth

But satan is ON the earth. It is the place of his bottomless/endless pit/grave, his eternal death.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan was cast out of Heaven and on to the earth.
Satan and the angels that fell with him, fell TO THE EARTH.
Rev.12[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
When did that happen?

It happens at the 7th Trumpet. Satan may be given control for 42 months. Satan rules from Jerusalem. Those angels are the locust let out of the pit at the 5th Trumpet. They are only on earth between the 5th and 7th Trumpets. They are currently in the pit under the earth.

Jesus tells us in Luke 11[17] And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
[18] And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
[19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Jesus said that He beheld Satan fall from heaven, but then in Revelation, He says that Satan came down to us, knowing that he has a short time.

The question is: when did satan come down to us, and how long is a short time?

Well, that length of time can be from many perspectives, as to whose idea or thoughts of time, is being counted.
Is that "short time" according to:
1. When the gospel is preached unto the ends of the earth?
2. God's time of Grace, according to His eternity?
3. When there won't be any faith on the earth?
4. According to our time, satans "knows" the literal date of his end?
5. Ever since when Jesus beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven?
6. In the Day when Jesus was crucified , resurrected and Ascended into Heaven?

The earth is satan's prison. He is on death row HERE ON THIS PLANET.

Satan falls from heaven hourly, day and night. That has been an ongoing phenomenon since the first century. Satan is currently not bound. Satan currently has no power. All he can do is keep approaching the throne. Hear Jesus is our advocate, and then cast out. The definition of insanity, thinking, just one time, he will get a different outcome.

 

[Timtofly]

But satan is ON the earth. It is the place of his bottomless/endless pit/grave, his eternal death.

No earth is not the pit. Are you in the pit?

Only the angels are bound in the pit right now. Satan is free to bounce back and forth between heaven and earth.

 

[Earburner]

No earth is not the pit. Are you in the pit?

Only the angels are bound in the pit right now. Satan is free to bounce back and forth between heaven and earth.

Without the Holy Spirit of God within me, this earth would be the only home that I will ever have. Therefore, because I am flesh, the death of my physical body must be disposed of.
Either It is to be burned up, or it shall be placed in a literal pit, a grave.

Angels do have eternal existence, but that existence is not gifted to them through the actual Spirit of God. There existence is granted to them by only one condition, and that is they are to serve God night and day, without error. God's relationship to them is similar to that which we have with our machines, computers, and now our robots. When they fail us, into the trash they go, headed for destruction.

However, satan is an angel of eternal spirit, and is not made of flesh. Therefore how shall an eternal spirit be contained/imprisoned, except that he has no other place to go.

The words "bottomless pit" is a metaphor of where satan's dwelling place is, and shall be the place of his future and eternal end.
Right now, because of the sacrifice of Christ, satan is bound from entering back into Heaven, or into anyone who has been Born Again by the Holy Spirit of God.
Due to His rebellion and separation from God, he is in the confinement/chains of his own spiritual darkness, held in reserve to his own eternal death, by being burned up along with this planet, with all the graves of physical life that has past.

 

[Timtofly]

Without the Holy Spirit of God within me, this earth would be the only home that I will ever have. Therefore, because I am flesh, the death of my physical body must be disposed of.
Either It is to be burned up, or it shall be placed in a literal pit, a grave.

Angels do have eternal existence, but that existence is not gifted to them through the actual Spirit of God. There existence is granted to them by only one condition, and that is they are to serve God night and day, without error. God's relationship to them is similar to that which we have with our machines, computers, and now our robots. When they fail us, into the trash they go, headed for destruction.

However, satan is an angel of eternal spirit, and is not made of flesh. Therefore how shall an eternal spirit be contained/imprisoned, except that he has no other place to go.

The words "bottomless pit" is a metaphor of where satan's dwelling place is, and shall be the place of his future and eternal end.
Right now, because of the sacrifice of Christ, satan is bound from entering back into Heaven, or into anyone who has been Born Again by the Holy Spirit of God.
Due to His rebellion and separation from God, he is in the confinement/chains of his own spiritual darkness, held in reserve to his own eternal death, by being burned up along with this planet, with all the graves of physical life that has past.

Satan is just an angel like all other angels. He is not a "spirit". They all go into the Lake of Fire along with all the humans who follow after them.

Angels are created beings. If they could not think for themselves, they would not have rebelled. Humans are created beings as well. Humans have more freedom on earth, their home, than angels have in the firmament, their home. That is the only difference. The pit or grave under the earth was the place of punishment and torment to confine those angels that rebelled. Then it became the place to confine the wicked rebellious humans.

The earth is not the place of punishment, because the earth was the home of the sons of God.

 

[YeshuaFan]

This may be a non starter. Amillennials do not adhere to the 1000 year reign.
Blessings

True, as A mils see this as being a symbolic binding of Satan, as he will not be allowed to hinder and stop the spread of the Gospel, and Premils such as myself see it much more being literal, as we hold to when he is bound, that he will be removed from earth, so no more evil, sin, disease, wars, false religions etc!

 

[Earburner]

Satan is just an angel like all other angels. He is not a "spirit". They all go into the Lake of Fire along with all the humans who follow after them.

Hebrews 1[13] But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[14] Are they [the holy angels] not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Satan is an unholy angel, a ministering spirit of deceit and rebellion against God.

 

[DavidPT]

Satan is just an angel like all other angels. He is not a "spirit". They all go into the Lake of Fire along with all the humans who follow after them.

Angels are created beings. If they could not think for themselves, they would not have rebelled. Humans are created beings as well. Humans have more freedom on earth, their home, than angels have in the firmament, their home. That is the only difference. The pit or grave under the earth was the place of punishment and torment to confine those angels that rebelled. Then it became the place to confine the wicked rebellious humans.

The earth is not the place of punishment, because the earth was the home of the sons of God.

To somewhat add to what you two have been discussing involving some of this, assuming the earth itself is meaning the bottomless pit rather than the bottomless pit is meaning a place somewhere inside of the earth, thus the BP is not meaning the planet itself, how does one interpret the following if the BP is meaning the planet itself?

Luke 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.


If the deep(abyss) is meaning the planet earth, a place they were already at to begin with, should one then understand this verse to mean the following and then see this making sense of the text---And they besought him that he would not command them to go onto the planet earth?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

True, as A mils see this as being a symbolic binding of Satan, as he will not be allowed to hinder and stop the spread of the Gospel, and Premils such as myself see it much more being literal, as we hold to when he is bound, that he will be removed from earth, so no more evil, sin, disease, wars, false religions etc!

No sin? So, you don't see Zechariah 14:16-21 as referring to the thousand years as most Premils do?

 

[Timtofly]

Hebrews 1[13] But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[14] Are they [the holy angels] not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Satan is an unholy angel, a ministering spirit of deceit and rebellion against God.

In Hebrews 1, they can be sent as air. They cannot get into one's mind in full physical form. That does not mean they are only air. That is a different physical trait used as symbolism. Air does not "get into your mind" to decieve you either. Of course for Satan to decieve one it is on a spiritual level.

This verse is not even about Satan or the rebel angels. This is talking about the spirits that are around the throne of God, and angels. These verses are for righteousness and spiritual edification of one's life. They don't apply to those angels reserved in the chains of darkness in the pit.

 

[YeshuaFan]

No sin? So, you don't see Zechariah 14:16-21 as referring to the thousand years as most Premils do?

Yes, but just was saying that binding satan has much more going on then just having him unable to stop the Gospel from getting out!

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes, but just was saying that binding satan has much more going on then just having him unable to stop the Gospel from getting out!

Hmmm. You said there would be no evil, sin, etc. during that time. Are you sticking with that statement or not?

 

[Timtofly]

To somewhat add to what you two have been discussing involving some of this, assuming the earth itself is meaning the bottomless pit rather than the bottomless pit is meaning a place somewhere inside of the earth, thus the BP is not meaning the planet itself, how does one interpret the following if the BP is meaning the planet itself?

Luke 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.


If the deep(abyss) is meaning the planet earth, a place they were already at to begin with, should one then understand this verse to mean the following and then see this making sense of the text---And they besought him that he would not command them to go onto the planet earth?

I think they were asking not to be put into the pit. How do they go from mind to mind any way? Only if people let them in. But they are roaming the earth and not in the pit. If these demons were in the pit, they could no longer roam the earth. Since these demons come from reprobate humans, they will keep appearing as long as there are reprobate humanity. Confining them to the pit makes their numbers on earth smaller, but it does not stop demonic activity. That will only stop after the end of Adam's flesh and blood. Just castings a demon leaves it on earth. Casting out and then confining that demon to the pit will prevent that demon from ever possessing another human. Self preservation was the reason they did not want to be put into the deep, ie the pit.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hmmm. You said there would be no evil, sin, etc. during that time. Are you sticking with that statement or not?

Will strick with no more wars, mo more sickness, diseases famines, like a paradise, restored Eden!

 

[Earburner]

In Hebrews 1, they can be sent as air. They cannot get into one's mind in full physical form. That does not mean they are only air. That is a different physical trait used as symbolism. Air does not "get into your mind" to decieve you either. Of course for Satan to decieve one it is on a spiritual level.

This verse is not even about Satan or the rebel angels. This is talking about the spirits that are around the throne of God, and angels. These verses are for righteousness and spiritual edification of one's life. They don't apply to those angels reserved in the chains of darkness in the pit.

When the angel Lucifer, aka satan, was cast out of Heaven and on to the earth, the only thing he lost was his angelic position/place in Heaven, as the "covering Cherub angel". By him losing his placement, among the order of the angels, he was then put outside the will of God for all the angels.

However, when Jesus first appeared on the earth, and completed His Father's work, as "The Lamb of God", satan now no longer has the permission or the means, by which he can approach God at all.
His fate is now sealed for total destruction, and he shall never escape from the place of his "endless grave", which is this present earth, and all the things that are in it.
2Pet.3[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev. 20[14] And death and hell [the graves] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Romans 8:9.

 

[Earburner]

Will strick with no more wars, mo more sickness, diseases famines, like a paradise, restored Eden!

Will you be mortal or immortal?