• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Can a rape victim determine the value of their unborn child?

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ), May 20, 2019.

  1. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

    +3,711
    Canada
    Protestant
    Married
    I wish I could give this a 10 x winner rating.
     
  2. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

    +3,711
    Canada
    Protestant
    Married
    Ah..... one word.... adoption....... end of story.

    Many many many married couples are living without children due to medical issues.... They are dying to raise children with love and comfort of a home and the opportunity to live.
     
  3. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

    +3,711
    Canada
    Protestant
    Married
    What is really ironic... is the things you post..... and your signature statement.
     
  4. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

    +3,554
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    US-Others
    God has also given humankind stewardship over all of creation, so we have the right to choose how to use and distribute the resources we are given. All throughout creation, there is culling and pruning for the sake of life. It is not mandatory, even by God, that all life must grow.

    See, since abortion is never addressed anywhere in scripture, we can read whatever we like into it.
     
  5. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    How did you not understand I was saying kids don't deserve to be bounced around from one foster home to another, as opposed to knowing the same family their entire lives, whether they are with the biological or adoptive parents? It is not about which family they live with, but how many, as kids are moved around to different homes by adoption agencies instead of actually adopted by a single family? When people say, "I don't want this kid anymore," the kid will be less likely to succeed in life than those 30+ kids.

    I don't know the word audacity. I also don't know why you assume pro-choice people want to dictate pro-life people. The opposite is true: pro-lifers want to push theology against legal and biological information. Christians have no business proclaiming their faith controls the law in a country that was founded on total religious freedom (see hte First Amendment), which is what pro-life people do. Pro-choice people are not, and never have been or will be, pro-abortion. They just know it is immoral to force rape victims to carry a baby to term against her will and religious beliefs.
     
  6. Quasiblogo

    Quasiblogo Regular Member Supporter

    613
    +732
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    One must back up to ask, in order, three other questions: (1) Has God asked us to make decisions without seeking His guidance, particularly from the Scriptures (2) If He has not, then what value does He place on the unborn, and lastly (3) How does that value extend to all conditions of pregnancy, including (a) rape (b) incest (c) physical danger to the mother. To me, 3(c) comes the closest a reason that God could condone abortion (but I am not a teacher and could be wrong). I cringe to think of rape/incest victims, but I cannot divorce my inner debate from the status of the child. I do think God's heart is also with the child in those instances (must the child pay for the crime of the raper or sinful parent?). Hard questions and hard answers concerning 3 are, what I think, causes some to take the more convenient way out the debate by insisting an unborn is not a human.
     
  7. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    It is not ironic if you consider "everyone" includes the mother. Pro-lifers insist raped girls and women who tried to avoid having babies should just put up with a lot of crap like they are worthless and less valuable. Not God - He wants them to be happy and healthy because He loves them and they are as valuable as an unborn baby. It sickens me that pro-lifers think it is better to let the mother suffer than her child who she will give up anyway.
     
  8. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

    +3,554
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    US-Others
    This thread has done nothing to lessen my view that the so-called "pro-life" movement has very little to do with life and everything to do with punishment and control.
     
  9. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    The pro-lifers are ther ones who want control. Pro-choice means the opposite: don't control us, let us.
     
  10. eucatastrophe

    eucatastrophe New Member

    20
    +18
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    But is this the proper take? Does stewardship extend to murder? Because, the unlawful taking of a human life is just that. There is no such thing in the natural world. We cannot murder an animal. The killing of an animal may be cruel, wanton and unfair, but it is never murder as animals are not moral beings, no matter how much we may love and care for them. But does pretending an unborn child is not human mitigate that? I am not arguing for a ban on all abortions, but a Christian must face this issue. Sometimes the taking of life must happen in this fallen world. But where do we draw the line? In the matters of rape or medical issues, that decision should rest with the parents (or in the case of rape,with the mother) But if the issue is simply on of convenience or fear for what will happen to the child later in life...what gives anyone that right to set life aside? Life has many thorns but also roses now and again.
     
  11. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

    +3,554
    United States
    United Methodist
    Celibate
    US-Others
    There are plenty of cases where human life is killed, including in scripture, that is not considered to be murder. It is killing, yes, but murder, no. Is it truly responsible stewardship to allow and encourage ALL life that is conceived to grow and be born, even at great cost to the life already existing? Can we truly make that choice for another person, or even worse, give that choice over to governmental control? What other medical decisions are we to allow the government to control? Whether or not we remove life support from someone who can only remain technically alive by machinery?

    I am not pro-abortion. I would personally encourage someone to continue to carry the child if it is at all feasible to do so, but the choice is still up to her. I am not the one who will be paying her medical bills or putting my own life in danger through pregnancy complications.
     
  12. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I stopped reading at the bold sentence. I would get banned if I said what I want to about it.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,611
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    There are controls (most good for the child) that slow down the process:

    For domestic infant adoption, there are far more people in this country looking to adopt than there are babies placed every year. With international adoption, the ratio of children placed has slowed as countries have improved their foster care system. With the domestic infant adoption process, it generally entails the expectant mother selecting a family. For example, if there are 30 families waiting with an agency and only 15 birth parents who place with them every year, the odds are you may wait over a year before an expectant mother connects with your profile and matches with you.

    Some agencies limit the number of clients they take on per year, and some places accept more than others. When you are choosing an agency or a lawyer, don’t just ask how many placements they did last year, ask how many waiting adoptive families there were.

    While the adoption process can be emotionally difficult as well as time-consuming, if you invest in the process and are willing to wait, you will successfully be able to adopt. While it can be difficult not to know when or how the child will come, if you choose competent and ethical professionals it will happen, you may need to have some patience.
     
  14. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

    +3,711
    Canada
    Protestant
    Married
    The mother may suffer for a while... the baby... will lose it's life.

    If you think that carrying an unborn child of a rapist... or for whatever other reason you can think of that would justify, in your mind, to end a life... Then you are very young, or have had a very easy life.

    Life is hard... get used to it.
     
  15. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I am 42 and disabled.
     
  16. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +10,516
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    I don't know to think that it's okay to take the life of a voiceless innocent is pretty controlling.
     
  17. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    That has nothing to do with hte post you quoted.
     
  18. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +10,516
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity

    Victims and Victors: Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions, and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault


    This is a pretty good book on the topic. It was recommended to me over and over by pregnant rape survivors that I've encountered in the pro-life movement over the years.

    From the description:

    "This compelling new book addressing these complex issues in a clear and insightful manner. Drawn from a survey of nearly 200 women who have experienced rape or incest pregnancies, Victims and Victors reveals a seldom-heard truth: that most women who become pregnant through sexual assault do not want abortions."

    From some of the women:

    "Often I cry. Cry because I could not stop the attacks. Cry because my daughter is dead. And I cry because it still hurts."
    Edith Young

    "I think that rape victims with pregnancies are discriminated against because people seem to think you're nuts to have a baby by a man who raped you. We are looked upon as being liars, or stupid."
    Sharon"Bailey"

    "They say abortion is the easy way out, the best thing for everyone, but they are wrong. It has been over 15 years, and I still suffer." "Rebecca Morris"
     
  19. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +10,516
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    Sure does. Pro-choice is the choice to do what: To kill an innocent.

    You have to define the choice. People want a choice, the choice to do what?

    To say that choice does not exert control over another is simply not true. The pro-choice movement is far more about control than pro-life. The pro-life movement is, as Alveda King puts it, a civil rights movement.

    That it is about control of a woman's body is a red herring from the pro-choice movement to distract from the fact that someone is being killed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  20. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

    +949
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Pro-choice means literally just that: the government can't control what women do with their bodies.
     
Loading...