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Featured Can a rape victim determine the value of their unborn child?

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ), May 20, 2019.

  1. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    No that's the red herring. The choice they are talking about is the freedom to make the choice to kill an innocent.

    The choice to remove humanity from an innocent to make the first choice to kill them seem much more palatable. Then sprinkle in a dash of misdirection that the other side wants to control other people.

    Considering with that line of logic it can be said that pro-choice people want to control both men's and women's bodies. By saying it's somehow a human right to cut them to pieces, because they weren't people anyway.

    That's pretty controlling.

    Ever watch the documentary "It's a girl the three deadliest words in the world"

    About abortion because the child will be a girl? That's controlling a woman's right to her body... By depriving her of the use of it before even birth.

    Sorry but the argument that pro-life is about control and pro-choice is about choice is not one that can really hold up. Not when you're removing the choice of the first breath .
     
  2. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Nobody is making up a red herring argument by saying women have body autonomy and that is a human right that cannot be taken away. God gave all of His people body autonomy. It is part of human nature. If women do not have body autonomy, neither do men, and nobody is fighting a war on men.
     
  3. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Can you support this with Scripture?
     
  4. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Really? No one is fighting a war on authentic manhood? That would be a different thread but, many would disagree.

    No one is fighting a war on women either they are fighting a war to protect innocents from being killed.

    My bodily autonomy doesn't allow me to kill an innocent. No one's does.

    That's why the bodily autonomy argument is a red herring.

    The pro-choice movement wants to control whether or not, for any reason determined by the mother, If the child gets to be born.

    That's control. The post you said I quoted that wasn't relevant was about which movement was about control. It seems the pro-choice movement is far more about control because they want to control whether someone lives or dies. And that control extends to any reason.

    In this current threat were talking about rape. But that is statistically at the lower end of what they support.

    You can say the pro-life movement is about control, in the fact that they want to stop somebody from killing another person. Yeah I want to control that.
     
  5. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So in the situation of rape... Let's say you have a 7 week old fetus. 74% of abortions are performed week 7 or later.

    What did she do to deserve to die? What about her bodily integrity and autonomy?
     
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  6. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    There is no such thing as a 7-week old fetus. At that time the unborn baby is still an embryo.

    Body autonnomy can't begin before there is a full body breathing, digesting food, sleeping ,etc.
     
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Same group of "religious" folk. I'm unimpressed by the religiosity that's so concerned in one case and unconcerned about the same lives 9 months later.
     
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  8. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    At 7 weeks external sexual organs are developed in the embryo. They might not be identifiable unless you specifically look for them for 3-5 more weeks and hormones make them differentiate. But at 7 weeks external sexual organs exist. So a 7-week embryo to a 14 week fetus... Where are her rights?

    So bodily autonomy begins at birth? If not at what point does the bodily autonomy of the fetus begin?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  9. joymercy

    joymercy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @Davidnic I found that video documentary on youtube:



    All over the world, innocents are murdered bc they are "inconvenient" even though the parents wanted their unborn child.

    Until, they found out the gender of the child after they were born alive....
     
  10. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Yep that used to be on Netflix.
     
  11. joymercy

    joymercy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    its free now, and most definitely is so powerful, that one who watches and loves Jesus will not be the same afterwards, if they were somehow sitting on the fence on this issue.

    Blessings
     
  12. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Did you know it is impossible to know the unborn baby's sex when the genitals are formed?

    The sex of an embryo is irrelevant when talking about body autonomy, however. I mean all of the organs and tissues must be fully formed to be a whole body that will later be autonomous.
     
  13. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So when do you think that is? When according to you would there be bodily autonomy?

    you can find out the baby's gender at 10 weeks I'm willing to change my question to a 10 week old fetus? So what about her? That woman gets no autonomy, until by your arbitrary definition and week number that I'm waiting for.
     
  14. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    When the fetus is full-term (37 weeks)
     
  15. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I was born before 37 weeks. I didn't have bodily autonomy and wasn't a person then?

    37 weeks? Before that is a preemie. So no preemies have bodily autonomy? That's pretty close to infanticide.
     
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  16. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    How early were you?
     
  17. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Early in but not yet completing the 27th week. In 1974.

    My twin sister and I were rushed by ambulance two hours to a different hospital with better care. Stayed in the hospital for a little over a month after birth.

    The factors contributing to the premature birth were my mother's age of 42 in 1974, so that was not as common then as now. The fact that we were twins. And her cancer which is why the doctors told her to abort us, and I believe I mentioned it in a different thread why she punched a doctor in the face.
     
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  18. RoyalKing

    RoyalKing New Member

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    This is how God feels about abortion.

    "These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood..." (vs. 16-17) For example, note these few unscientific and oft-spoken words regarding unborn children: 'It's not a baby, its a blob of tissue!' or 'its doesn't feel pain.' Science says otherwise: https://www.lifenews.com/2015/02/04...orn-babies-can-feel-pain-as-early-as-8-weeks/

    The Lord said this to Jeremiah: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations..."(Jeremiah 1:5) This means God knows every human being in the womb, yes, even before we are conceived He knows us, the God Who declares the end from the beginning. As it is written, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.'"(Isaiah 46:10)

    Continuing on with things which are an abomination to the LORD, verse 18, part 1 says, "...A heart that devises wicked plans..." One of these vile behaviors is the murdering of unborn humans all of whom are or were created by God, in His image and after His likeness, for His glory and His good pleasure.

    Verse 18, part 2: "Feet swift in running to evil..." Heading off to the abortion clinic or, say, to a pro-choice or pro-abortion rally, etc., your feet are swift in running to evil.

    Verse 19, part 1: "A false witness who speaks lies..." An obvious lie is that it's a woman's right to murder (the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another). If it is a woman's right to kill her child, then women also have the right to kill any human. Whether we see them with our eyes or not (God sees them), a human being is a human being, in or out of the womb, on earth, in Heaven or in Hades.

    Verse 19, part 2: "...And one who sows discord among brethren."(Proverbs 6: 16-19). The murdering of unborn children has caused discord among the blood-bought saints of The Most High who are of Messiah's flock - that is to say, those who have confessed with their mouths the Lord Jesus and who truly believe in their hearts that God has raised Him (His only begotten Son) from the dead.
     
  19. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Here's the problem, science does keep pushing back viability. At a point in time we will be able to transplant even early in gestation to women or artificial wombs.

    Artificial wombs are actually already being researched.

    So by the bodily autonomy criteria the definition of a person and their rights changes over time. That can't possibly be.

    Who is human with rights cannot be determined by the level of technology a culture has.
     
  20. joymercy

    joymercy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    gee, if a blob of cells is not a life....then why even bother trying to remove this so called blob?

    its not life, right?
     
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