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Amen. Remember Judas Iscariot. He rejected Christ.Welcome to CF!
Yes they can, it is called apostasy.
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Amen. Remember Judas Iscariot. He rejected Christ.Welcome to CF!
Yes they can, it is called apostasy.
I may have missed the part that you even picked a side but feel free to answer the question:
Evaluate yourselves to see whether you are in the faith, living as genuine believers.
Do you not yourselves realize that Jesus Christ is in you? (2 Cor 13:5)
The connection is that outside of faith in Christ (Gal 3:27) there is no possibility of preservation."I may have missed the part that you even picked a side"
Well, my entire thread is based upon the defense of "The Preservation of the Saints" by means of the unique contribution of Molinism .... so I really don't see any connection with the verse you posted.
Amen. Remember Judas Iscariot. He rejected Christ.
Remember that Judas rejected Christ which caused him to forfeit the new nature in Christ.RileyG said:
Amen. Remember Judas Iscariot. He rejected Christ.
Maria Billingsly said [in post #10],"Yes they can, it is called apostasy."
I agree .... "yes they can" - they [regenerated persons] can [apostatize] because they are free moral agents rather than mere puppets ... but, "no they won't" - because God has promised to preserve them by using various means [both positive and negative] that do not override that freedom. They will naturally or organically desire [as opposed to being overridden or constrained by God] to serve and please their Creator and Redeemer as a result of the new nature they received when they first placed their trust in Jesus Christ [2 Corinthians 5:17].
Remember that Judas rejected Christ which caused him to forfeit the new nature in Christ.
But God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor 8:9
He who believes will never be disappointed. 1 Peter 2:6Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not really interested in going down that draining rabbit hole. Unfortunately, I've already experienced that exercise in futility which seems to be inevitably connected to discussions that involve the question of the genuineness of faith in various people mentioned throughout the scriptures [i.e. - 'were they ever really regenerated individuals?'].
Fortunately, there are other avenues/methods that can be taken to determine the validity of your truth claim concerning Judas.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24That is to say, I've already provided numerous posts which I believe demonstrates compelling evidence for my claim that not even one genuine believer will ever forfeit [lose] their new nature in Jesus Christ and 'morph' back into their prior [ontological] constitution. We will simply have to agree to disagree on this one.
He who believes will never be disappointed. 1 Peter 2:6Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not really interested in going down that draining rabbit hole.
There is no validity in claiming that someone who betrays the faith is a genuine believer/regenerated. “You are not all washed.”Unfortunately, I've already experienced that exercise in futility which seems to be inevitably connected to discussions that involve the question of the genuineness of faith in various people mentioned throughout the scriptures [i.e. - 'were they ever really regenerated individuals?']. Fortunately, there are other avenues/methods that can be taken to determine the validity of your truth claim concerning Judas.
But if the Son sets you free, you have a permanent place in the household.That is to say, I've already provided numerous posts which I believe demonstrates compelling evidence for my claim that not even one genuine believer will ever forfeit [lose] their new nature in Jesus Christ and 'morph' back into their prior [ontological] constitution. We will simply have to agree to disagree on this one.
He who believes will never be disappointed. 1 Peter 2:6
Live properly among your unbelieving neighbors so that they may observe your good works and glorify God on the day of visitation, when Christ is revealed. 1 Peter 2:12
So that they may be partakers of the promise in Christ through the gospel. Ephesians 3:4-6
There is no validity in claiming that someone who betrays the faith is a genuine believer/regenerated. “You are not all washed.”
But if the Son sets you free, you have a permanent place in the household.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24
So what you're saying is that a person who is justified by faith, through Christ receives an inheritance that can never perish, 1 Peter 1:3-5.You said - "There is no validity in claiming that someone who betrays the faith is a genuine believer/regenerated. “You are not all washed.”
My reply - There is no validity in claiming that someone "who betrays the faith" , that is, totally and finally renounces the [Christian] faith, was ever a genuine believer.
You said - "But if the Son sets you free, you have a permanent place in the household." John 5:24"
My reply - Agreed, the very moment that the Son sets a person free from the penalty for their sin(s) [i.e. - justification], they not only have a permanent status in the household of God [God's family] ... as a result of God declaring them as [judicially] justified, they will also be set free from the dominion of indwelling sin [experientially]. John 5:24 ... Oh, how I love that verse!!
So what you're saying is that a person who is justified by faith, through Christ receives an inheritance that can never perish, 1 Peter 1:3-5.
"My righteousness will last forever,..." Isa 51:8
i believe that a believer can become an unbeliever and from then on forfeits his or her salvation,
Luke 24:26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”Being born again is a spiritual birth that proves God's Salvation has been given to you, as "The Gift of Salvation""
You cannot stop being born of your mother, and you can not end being Born from God above.
"birth", never ends...And who is Salvation? Its Jesus. And where was Salvation completed?
It was completed on the Cross, 2000 yrs Ago, and this is why Jesus said.....from the Cross.....>"it is finished".
How is this proven to be true? 1.) Jesus rose from the dead. 2.) """"Christ in you the hope of glory", and all the born again are 'In Christ".
Romans 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead
by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. In order that we may also share in his glory. Rom 8:17
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, Heb 9:14-15Dd you notice that Jesus was not raised from the dead by water baptism?
If you've not yet realized that yet, then do realize it asap, reader.
And neither is water baptism as applied to the born again, anything more the symbolic.
Water baptism gets you wet.....that's it. The Blood Atonement deals with your sin.