Can A Dead Unregenerate Sinner Be Drawn To Christ?

[Tnmusicman]

Interesting topic. Enjoyed the read.

 

[Arcoe]

Yes, lets see.

Amen!

Interesting. Would you be kind enough to point me to a passage in God's word that teaches a man who is unregenerate, (a lost sinner) is good? Point me to the teaching that the unsaved man is good.

Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?
Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

So there are all sorts of good people in the world, and these are the ones who will respond positively? Again, show me the scriptures teaching man is good.

Again, scripture please?

See above.

So there are those in this world who Satan does not interfere with during the salvation process?
Why not? Could you point out this teaching as well? Thanks.

Does the parable of the sower not satisfy you? Besides, when speaking of Satan, it denotes evil and wickedness. It is the evil in a person's heart, and his delight in it, which snatches the word from a person's heart, thus not believing and being saved.

As we are told in Ezekiel, we are to cast away our transgressions and make ourselves a new heart through repentance, thus obtaining life.

I can agree with tis, since the gospel is the truth.

Well lets back up a bit. Could you find scripture proof for the things I asked about? We have to get over that hump first.


Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[Foghorn]

Arcoe, you qjoted this scripture to show man is good? Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

I have to ask, are you serious!?!

 

[Foghorn]

When you find a lepord that can change his spots, or, an etheopian that can change his color, ill believe you

This actualy proves man is not good and there is nothong he is able to do about it.

 

[Arcoe]

Arcoe, you qjoted this scripture to show man is good? Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

I have to ask, are you serious!?!

Do you not believe God's word?

 

[Arcoe]

When you find a lepord that can change his spots, or, an etheopian that can change his color, ill believe you

This actualy proves man is not good and there is nothong he is able to do about it.

Really? I didn't read that. I read a man can do good who is accustomed to doing evil.

 

[Arcoe]

When you find a lepord that can change his spots, or, an etheopian that can change his color, ill believe you

This actualy proves man is not good and there is nothong he is able to do about it.

I'm not asking you to believe me, but rather, to believe the word of God.

 

[Eddie L]

Really? I didn't read that. I read a man can do good who is accustomed to doing evil.

You are misreading the text. The first question is rhetorical. The answer is, of course, "No, an Ethiopian cannot change his skin and a leopard cannot change his spots." Therefore, there will never be a time that a person who is accustomed to do evil can do good, unless something big happens.

Some translations, like the NIV and New Living, actually change the last sentence. For example:

Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil (NIV)
Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (New Living)

These translations interpreted the passage this way because that is what they mean. You have actually used one of the premiere proof texts for the need for regeneration before faith.

 

[gmm4j]

It is a Calvinist’s premiere proof text that is not a very good proof text…

Jer 13:22-27
22 And if you ask yourself, "Why has this happened to me?" — it is because of your many sins that your skirts have been torn off and your body mistreated. 23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin
or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil. 24 "I will scatter you like chaff driven by the desert wind. 25 This is your lot, the portion I have decreed for you,"declares the LORD, "because you have forgotten me and trusted in false gods. 26 I will pull up your skirts over your face that your shame may be seen — 27 your adulteries and lustful neighings, your shameless prostitution! I have seen your detestable acts on the hills and in the fields. Woe to you, O Jerusalem! How long will you be unclean?"

This is not teaching that all mankind does not have the ability to believe. It is speaking to those in Jerusalem (probably just the leaders according to JM J) who were accustom to doing evil. They already had hard hearts and had purposely chosen to forsake the Lord and trust in false gods. These would need a dramatic change. And, this is what God was going to do… Bring judgment so they might cry out to Him (Not irresistibly regenerate them).

 

[Eddie L]

It is speaking to those in Jerusalem (probably just the leaders according to JM J) who were accustom to doing evil.

The principle here is that people who are accustomed to doing evil cannot change themselves, Mr. G. That was true of those in Jerusalem, sure. It's just as true of any other unbeliever.

 

[Foghorn]

You are misreading the text. The first question is rhetorical. The answer is, of course, "No, an Ethiopian cannot change his skin and a leopard cannot change his spots." Therefore, there will never be a time that a person who is accustomed to do evil can do good, unless something big happens.

Some translations, like the NIV and New Living, actually change the last sentence. For example:

Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil (NIV)
Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (New Living)

These translations interpreted the passage this way because that is what they mean. You have actually used one of the premiere proof texts for the need for regeneration before faith.

Amen bro!

 

[gmm4j]

The principle is that, those who have been given the Patriarchs, the Law, the sacrificial system, the prophets, etc., etc., but have continually rejected all these and are accustom to doing evil, will be given over to themselves, and He will reveal their shame. This type of person has determined not to change and will not.

It is not saying that all unbelievers, everywhere, at all times are unable to do anything good. In fact, Jeremiah himself along with his contemporaries Habakkuk, Obadiah, and Ezekiel are contradictions to this universal thought.

There are many other verses throughout Jeremiah and Scripture that state that those who have not set their hearts to do evil can change. Here's one:

Jer 26:2-4
"This is what the LORD says: Stand in the courtyard of the LORD's house and speak to all the people of the towns of Judah who come to worship in the house of the LORD. Tell them everything I command you; do not omit a word. 3 Perhaps they will listen and each will turn from his evil way. Then I will relent and not bring on them the disaster I was planning because of the evil they have done.


Also, God can use the consequences of sin to influence change. Judgment can be used so they might cry out to Him (Not irresistibly regenerate them).

Jer 29:10-14
This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile."

 

[Arcoe]

The principle here is that people who are accustomed to doing evil cannot change themselves, Mr. G. That was true of those in Jerusalem, sure. It's just as true of any other unbeliever.
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But they can be sorrowful over their sin and repent, their first step to doing good.

 

[Arcoe]

Jer 26:2-4
"This is what the LORD says: Stand in the courtyard of the LORD's house and speak to all the people of the towns of Judah who come to worship in the house of the LORD. Tell them everything I command you; do not omit a word. 3 Perhaps they will listen and each will turn from his evil way. Then I will relent and not bring on them the disaster I was planning because of the evil they have done.

This is precisely a passage which says if a man will turn from his wicked ways, the Lord will not bring on the destruction HE HAD PLANNED for them because of the evil they had done.

If a man will turn from his evil, the Lord will change His plan of disaster He had for them. A man who is accustomed to doing evil can do good if he will repent and turn from his evil ways.

 

[Eddie L]

This is precisely a passage which says if a man will turn from his wicked ways, the Lord will not bring on the destruction HE HAD PLANNED for them because of the evil they had done.

If a man will turn from his evil, the Lord will change His plan of disaster He had for them. A man who is accustomed to doing evil can do good if he will repent and turn from his evil ways.

A-men. Folks should repent.

 

[Arcoe]

A-men. Folks should repent.

Glad to hear you believe that, but let's not forget God changing His plan for the sinner once he turns from his sins.

 

[Eddie L]

Glad to hear you believe that, but let's not forget God changing His plan for the sinner once he turns from his sins.

I rarely have idea why you say what do.

 

[Arcoe]

I rarely have idea why you say what do.

It's really not that hard to see why Eddie. I believe what the Lord says in His word. Here it is again:

Jer 26:2-4
"This is what the LORD says: Stand in the courtyard of the LORD's house and speak to all the people of the towns of Judah who come to worship in the house of the LORD. Tell them everything I command you; do not omit a word. 3 Perhaps they will listen and each will turn from his evil way. THEN I will relent and not bring on them the disaster I WAS PLANNING because of the evil they have done.

 

[Eddie L]

It's really not that hard to see why Eddie. I believe what the Lord says in His word. Here it is again:

Jer 26:2-4
"This is what the LORD says: Stand in the courtyard of the LORD's house and speak to all the people of the towns of Judah who come to worship in the house of the LORD. Tell them everything I command you; do not omit a word. 3 Perhaps they will listen and each will turn from his evil way. THEN I will relent and not bring on them the disaster I WAS PLANNING because of the evil they have done.

Nice passage. I like the Bible, too.

 

[Arcoe]

Nice passage. I like the Bible, too.

No comment on verse 3?