Can a Christian need deliverance?

[hal]

I have been reading the pros and cons of whether a Christian have "have" a demon.

I know they can from my own experience and the experiences of others I have delivered.

However, sinple logic makes the point.
If a Christian cannot have a demon, then the deliverance ministry must be for the unbeliever. Which says that an unbeliever can have a demon.

If a Christian cannot have a demon then coming to Christ must include deliverance.

Then why are the demon manisfestations of deliverance not present when one is born again? Manifestations are mentioned in the Scriptures.

Conclusion: Although deliverance can occur with being born again, it may not.

However, thankfully, we then have the power to get rid of them. Mark 16:15-20

 

[Follower of Christ too]

I have been reading the pros and cons of whether a Christian have "have" a demon.

I know they can from my own experience and the experiences of others I have delivered.

However, sinple logic makes the point.
If a Christian cannot have a demon, then the deliverance ministry must be for the unbeliever. Which says that an unbeliever can have a demon.

If a Christian cannot have a demon then coming to Christ must include deliverance.

Then why are the demon manisfestations of deliverance not present when one is born again? Manifestations are mentioned in the Scriptures.

Conclusion: Although deliverance can occur with being born again, it may not.

However, thankfully, we then have the power to get rid of them. Mark 16:15-20

Everything we need deliverance from is not always demons! Sometimes it is habits and addictions..When we are born again we are delivered in birth(spiritual) a new creature. There are different kinds of deliverance, some demonic some flesh.....When you are born a new creature you are a babe and you grow into a mature christian over time..As a babe you may have to ask God to deliver you from certain weaknesses, that trouble your spirit, but this wouldn't mean it was a demon

 

[altya]

Everything we need deliverance from is not always demons! Sometimes it is habits and addictions..When we are born again we are delivered in birth(spiritual) a new creature. There are different kinds of deliverance, some demonic some flesh.....When you are born a new creature you are a babe and you grow into a mature christian over time..As a babe you may have to ask God to deliver you from certain weaknesses, that trouble your spirit, but this wouldn't mean it was a demon

Bravo!!!!

To overcome the flesh is to mortify, (degrade, crush and confound) it. It’s a painful process but to die to self is very profitable for our spirit. It’s the only way to die to self. We may often regret that your flesh is not a demon, if it were; we could simply cast it out. But we can’t neither cast out flesh nor bind it. It has to die. (Kill it) God won’t send an angel to kill your flesh, nor will the demons kill your flesh for you. Demons will stir your own flesh to help you to bring forth a work of the flesh; it’s up to you to kill your flesh.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

One can argue against the possiblity with theology and the use of some scripture... but again and again we see good Bible believing Christians who are in fact either "possessed" or "oppressed" by demonic spirits. These sometimes manifest in the form of physical and mental anomalies. This includes strong delusion, sinful and lustful leadings, and physical imparments.

I will say I see no possibility for a believer to be possessed in spirit.

In every case, freedom is found in the blood and the name of Jesus.
They flee in terror!

 

[altya]

I have been reading the pros and cons of whether a Christian have "have" a demon.

I know they can from my own experience and the experiences of others I have delivered.

However, sinple logic makes the point.
If a Christian cannot have a demon, then the deliverance ministry must be for the unbeliever. Which says that an unbeliever can have a demon.

If a Christian cannot have a demon then coming to Christ must include deliverance.

Then why are the demon manisfestations of deliverance not present when one is born again? Manifestations are mentioned in the Scriptures.

Conclusion: Although deliverance can occur with being born again, it may not.

However, thankfully, we then have the power to get rid of them. Mark 16:15-20

Sometimes the arguments ‘who are the possessed’ receiving all the attention and the possessed walk away without freedom. There is enough scripture to proof that a Christian can be possessed. But I don’t want to go there.

I believe that many people have been taught incorrectly about deliverance. As a result, they have unrealistic expectations. They expect to walk through a prayer line and have somebody lay hands on them with such power that the devil will never be able to say another word to them for the rest of their lives. They think that if they go to the right church or sit under the right ministry, they will become so mature in Christ, they will never be tempted again. It'll never happen because it isn't about making the devil impotent; it's about making people strong and free.

Deliverance means that you now control what used to control you. Deliverance means that the thing that sat on the throne of your heart and ruled with ruthless power over life has been dethroned and replaced by Jesus Christ. It still exists, but it isn't in charge.

Every now and then, satan will attempt an overthrow. He'll try to take over the throne of your life. At that point, it is up to you to resist his efforts, trust in God, and exercise control.

 

[hal]

Deliverance can have a wide interpretation but in the context of demonology use most often means to get rid of an evil spirit. I agree they cannot indwell the spirt of a Christian but they can indwell the soul and the body. I tell those I pray for that I do not know if they need delivance or not but it is not harmfull to go through it in case. I is amazing to see the manifestation that sometimes happens.
Demons are subtle and so common and their proclivities so common that their influence seems normal.
Becoming with the Holy Spirit is helpful. He is the Helper. It eliminates speculation.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Christians can be Oppressed - NEVER POSSESED

 

[ChurchBoy]

Christians can be Oppressed - NEVER POSSESED

Yes, someone speaks the truth! I think as Christians we need to focus on discipleship and not necessarily deliverance. Prayer, obedience, and putting on the Arm of God is what keeps us from the claws of demonic influence. We shouldn't need to bind or cast out demons. If we are prayerful, obedient to God and filled with His Spirit, no demonic force can touch us. One of the things that concerns me with "deliverance ministries" is that it shifts the responsibility of sin from the believer to demons. If a person has a problem with sexual immorality, or pride, of anger suddenly they need to be delivered for the demon of lust or the demon of pride or the demon of anger. Demons don't cause sin in us. Sin is already part of our nature (at least part of our flesh). Demons can only lie, decieve, and tempt us to give in to our sin nature. However, we have something better: the HOLY SPIRIT!!! When the Holy Spirit endwells in us we have righeousness and we do not have to become slaves to our sins.

 

[Andrew]

This question is excellently dealt with by Kenneth E Hagin in his book The Triumphant Church.

He has had 60 years of experience in this area and really knows what he's talking about.

The book answers all the usual question on whether a Christian can be possessed or not etc. A key I found is in firstly understanding how our human body is made up of three parts, and which parts an evil spirit can possess, and which part it cannot (for a believer). He also deals with the question of the flesh. A lot of times, we blame it on an evil spirit and try to "cast" it out when the problem is simply our flesh. This topic is dealth with too.

I seriously recommend this book to all who are in the deliverance ministry.

 

[admtaylor]

I was told by my pastor that I might have demons "shadowing" me from my past. Or kind of hanging above me like a rain cloud. Is this what you're talking about here? I'm not sure what to think about this.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Yes, someone speaks the truth! I think as Christians we need to focus on discipleship and not necessarily deliverance. Prayer, obedience, and putting on the Arm of God is what keeps us from the claws of demonic influence. We shouldn't need to bind or cast out demons. If we are prayerful, obedient to God and filled with His Spirit, no demonic force can touch us. One of the things that concerns me with "deliverance ministries" is that it shifts the responsibility of sin from the believer to demons. If a person has a problem with sexual immorality, or pride, of anger suddenly they need to be delivered for the demon of lust or the demon of pride or the demon of anger. Demons don't cause sin in us. Sin is already part of our nature (at least part of our flesh). Demons can only lie, decieve, and tempt us to give in to our sin nature. However, we have something better: the HOLY SPIRIT!!! When the Holy Spirit endwells in us we have righeousness and we do not have to become slaves to our sins.

I agree wholeheartedly!
I was once involved with a deliverance team, and almost 'joined' The Cleansing Stream...which I find now, to be unbiblical at the least. They teach that demon have 'legal rights' to you and have 'hooks' on you. They teach you that you have to say "Line Up Mind, Body Spirit!" - Show me where that is in the bible my friends.

Evil can not dwell where the Holy Spirit dwells - that would make Satan powerful - and he is not at all! In fact - he is the scum on the botton of any Christinas shoes. We need not cast him from a Christian. We can be Oppressed - yes, thus we pray to the Father for deliverance from Oppression etc.... However, when a prayer involves Satans name more than our Heavenly Father...we have to ask ourselves what we are doing....surely it is not what needs to be done.

 

[Core]

Sorry to come in here with a bang but there is a part of me that disagres with many of you. I believe that a christian can be possesed. I know people, people that are very close to me, who were christians( dont say,well they werent really christians becasue these people truly believed), and now are extremely controlled. A person can be set free and then the demon " goes and walks in dry places and when he comes back he finds his home swept clean so he brings back 7 more wicked than the first"(paraphrased) After a person is saved sometimes they will start to drift away from the lord opening a doorway for the demonic to enter. All christians after being saved still sin, if you argue that, well we need to start a whole new thread. These sins sometimes opens it up so that a spirit has a legal right to come back in and take over. I know i will be blasted for this, but some people believe things that others dont. Think about what i said before you assault me.

 

[Andrew]

Hi Core,

Know what you mean. But
1. When Jesus said that of the man he had just delivered, it was pre-cross. ie no one had been born again WITH the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
2. It is however, true that when a sinner/non-believer is delivered, the most important thing to do after that is to get him to become a believer, ie let his "house" be indwelt by someone else -- the Holy Spirit. That way, he wont be worse off later shld the evil spirit(s) come back
3. A Christian cannot be possessed in the full sense of demon possession ie symptoms like eyes rolled back, speaking in a nother voice, language, superhuman strength, etc
4. Our human spirit where the Holy Spirit dwells (in the case of a believer) corresponds to the Holy of Holies compartment/section of the OT Tabernacle. If you read the OT, you will know that in the Tabernacle, in the most holy place called the Holy of Holies where God's Spirit literally dwells, you will never find an evil spirit sharing room with God's Spirit. That is just impossible. Likewise for the believer today, who is the temple of God and has God's Spirit dwelling deep within him in his innermost core -- his spirit part.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

These sins sometimes opens it up so that a spirit has a legal right to come back in and take over.

Spirits have so 'rights' and definately not 'lega; ones'. This terminology is man made and not biblical if you study it. i once believed the same - however, there is not stance for this presumption - and definately no biblical back-up for it. possesion spiritually, in a Christian, is not possible.

you will never find an evil spirit sharing room with God's Spirit.

Andrew, I agree!

 

[Andrew]

That said, a Christian CAN be possessed (perhaps controlled is a clearer term) in the area of his soul and body.

We are tripartite:
1. spirit part (the real you and I)
2. soul part (mind, will, emotions)
3. body part (flesh, bones)

So we always say:"I am a spirit, I have a soul and I am housed in a physical body."

This corresponds to the Temple of God in the OT
1. Holy of Holies (where God literally dwells)
2. Holy Place (where there are 3 furniture items that correspond to mind will emotions)
3. Outer court (where the sacrifice is done)

As you approach from 3 to 1, it gets quieter and more holy.

The confusions regarding Christian "possession" lie in not being able to understnd that we are tripartite.

The only place where a true born again Christian can be "possessed" -- "controlled" is a clearer term -- is in the area of his mind (soul part) and physical body.

That is why you have many Christians in the asylum. Some of them, their minds are controlled by demons. Hence, they are 'possessed' in that sense or in bondage in that area. But this is not the same as being possessed as in the Biblical accounts, where the spirit controls everything.

in the area of the body, the evil spirit 'posesses' or has control IN THE SENSE that it manifests itself as usu incurable diseases such as cancer. This can also happen to Christians.

So, can a Christian be possessed? Yes and no. Depending on which part you are talking about and what kind of possession you mean.

 

[ChurchBoy]

I am puzzled by so many Chrisitans fascination with demons. We as Christians cannot be controlled by demons. This is not Biblical. Our fight is with our own SIN in us. We can become slaves to sin but not slaves to demons. Demons can only try to influence us through the world. When a person looks at porn, or lies, or cheats on their spouse does a demon "make" them do it? I do not believe they do. Our own sin nature is the root casue of our own evil thoughts and evil actions. I am doing a study on this right now. I will post later with Scripture references.

A Brother in Christ

ChurchBoy

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I am wondering how we could reconcile this verse with the idea that Christians are not affected by demons...

Eph 6:
12 For our struggle is not against a human opponent, but against rulers, against authorities, against cosmic powers in the darkness around us, against evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm.

 

[ChurchBoy]

I am wondering how we could reconcile this verse with the idea that Christians are not affected by demons...

Eph 6:
12 For our struggle is not against a human opponent, but against rulers, against authorities, against cosmic powers in the darkness around us, against evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm.

Our battles are against evil spiritual forces. I totally agree with that. What I do not agree with is that demons can make us commit sin. They do not have that power. Also, I have issues with this theology because it shifts the reponsibility from the person to demons. If a person has a problem with lust, boom, just have a deliverance and cast out the demon of lust. But this doesn't address the deeper issues of sin in the person's life. Why does this person have a a lust issue? Is this person focusing on God, is this person in prayer, etc? To combat demonic infuences we need to be in prayer, fast, read God's Word, and worship our Lord and Saviour with all our heart, mind, and spirit. If we are so totally focused on Jesus Christ with our mind, heart, and spirit, demons have no chance against that. They have no chance to deceive us or tempt us.

Matthew 16

15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

Remember, we need to focus on our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

A humble brother in Christ,

ChurchBoy

 

[set free in Christ]

I like translation that says...For we wrestle not against flesh and blood... To wrestle you have to have up close, personal, hands on. I cannot wrestle you by standing on the other side of the room to you.

I don't believe that a born again christian can be inhabited by two spirits. That being the Holy Spirit and a demonic spirit.

I have had this personal fight two diffenent times in my life and I can tell you it is "spiritually painfull" is about the only way to put it.

 

[ChurchBoy]

I think all Christians have had to wrestle with evil forces at least once in their lives. I know I have. It is not fun.